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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/27/20 in Posts

  1. 2 points
    My gut tells me that in this climate, if a group could articulate a mechanism for a lone scout program to work and coexist alongside traditional patrol based programs then it's a possibility. I've been around enough high level Scouters to know that the door is open for all kinds of innovative activities right now. The challenge in things like this is knowing how to talk to the right people about it. You call up your DE or local membership chair and start talking Lone Scouts and they'll go tilt. They are generally not going to have the right opportunities in the organization to even know how to raise it. But, if an organized, knowledgeable group had the right approach for raising it internally, then anything is possible.
  2. 2 points
    What I found from wiki. Membership numbers are fuzzy but @David CO seems correct. Lone Scouts of America (LSA) was a Scouting organization for American boys that operated from 1915 until it merged with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) in 1924. The LSA was founded by W. D. Boyce, publisher of the Chicago Ledger and the Saturday Blade and one of the founders of the BSA. Boyce felt that the program of the BSA did not help the rural boy who could not find enough other boys to form a troop or a patrol. James E. West, the first Chief Scout Executive of the BSA, disagreed with Boyce's concept, believing that the 4-H program was fulfilling the role. After Boyce left the BSA, he started the Lone Scouts of America and incorporated it on January 9, 1915. Boyce became the executive officer or Chief Totem and Frank Allan Morgan became the editor of The Lone Scout. In October 1915, Boyce appointed all of his paperboys as members of the LSA and published the first issue of The Lone Scout magazine. The LSA program was inspired by the Lonecraft program of the British Boy Scout Association and by Ernest Thompson Seton's Woodcraft Indians program that used American Indian themes.[1] No adult leaders were required in the Lone Scout program, and there were no age limits. By November 1915, over 30,000 members were reported. Lone Scouts who lived near each other could form a "local tribe", while others could form a "mail tribe" and communicate by post. Tribes could join together to form "wigwams". Tribes elected officers such as chief (president, initially called captain), sachem (vice-president), scribe (secretary) and wampum-bearer (treasurer). By October 1916, the LSA reported 133,000 members. By popular demand, a uniform was created in 1917 and the Lone Scout Supply Company was formed In April 1924, Boyce finally accepted James West's persistent offer of a merger with the BSA. On June 16, 1924 the merger was formalized. When The Lone Scout ceased publication, many of the boys dropped out of Scouting entirely. About 65,000 Lone Scouts transferred to the BSA, and membership peaked at 108,000 in 1926. The BSA ran the program unchanged for about a decade as the Lone Scout Service and then the Lone Scout Division. The unique program features were then eliminated and the Lone Scouts transitioned to the standard Boy Scout program. Lone Cub Scouts were added after the Cub Scouting program was introduced in 1930. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Scouts_of_America
  3. 1 point
    You know what? This summer I have seen the closest thing to the way I, and it sounds like you, grew up. Yesterday driving around town I saw multiple pods of kids on bicycles, with fishing poles, hiking around parks and skimming stones in places I usually never see kids. It's not as bad out there as we think. The problem is BSA has no idea on how to reach these kids or any mechanism or true desire to modify its program in order to do so. I'm not a kool aid drinking scouts person. I got involved with scouts because I want to see kids outdoors, because that's what I love and is what I think is good for kids. The endless merit badges and advancements pressure and religious/social rigidity and uniform nazis and homework like programming is not where my head or heart is at. This summer, for the first time in 30 years, I've seen kids out of doors in numbers. All I know is that I'm going where the kids are. I hope BSA figures it out and follows because I think that is truly the only way to be relevant and survive.
  4. 1 point
    @David CO Thanks for the clarification. In the litigious and risk-averse society of today, I don't know that such an organization could exist as a practical matter. But it reminds me of my friends and I, half a century ago, hiking all over our small town, nearby pastures, and in the little bit of woods we had, defeating invasions by imaginary hordes, building huts and treehouses, digging tunnels (a la "The Great Escape") in backyards and vacant lots, building campfires, and riding bikes 14 miles on a two-lane highway with semis roaring around us in order to get to an old mine to explore. We were focused on "program."
  5. 1 point
    The lease deal and the Shared Services Agreement is an interesting twist. When I first saw this was the setup for Summit, it did seem like an accounting exercise in order to keep assets off of some register. Not saying it had ill intent, but it may be the most transparent way to spend $750 mm on strip mine. In many many businesses there is the company that runs the business and one may think they own the business. When you peel the onion back you find a much more complicated view. An example of this is Eddie Lampert and the KMart / Sears - Sears Holding. His group bought Sears then sold the property to another group he controlled and leased it back while Sears ran the business. That got all complicated with the bankruptcy for them. Not sure the BSA was actively trying to shuffle assets, but one never knows. In many ways the new company and lease back can speed up capital approvals as leases are seen differently in financial reporting than purchases. Real question may be what is the actual status now of the BSA wholly own subsidiary Arrow WV. One would assume it would be embroiled in the bankruptcy and most judges would take a dim view if the organization was trying to hide assets or do shell game at this point.
  6. 1 point
    I don't know if scout units would be interested in these but I had proposed putting them together for some programming I was working on for our local schools and parks department. They were green lighted but then we lost funding so I can't give feedback on how they worked: - Bird study -- cheap binoculars, field guides, and Audubon and Cornell University educational materials. There are also some free apps you can download so printed instructions for those. Everything laminated. - Water study -- nets, buckets, specimen boxes, field guides, educational materials from local watershed associations. - Fishing -- fishing poles, nets, buckets, bait and tackle box, field guides, educational materials from local trout unlimited or fly fishing chapter. This kit will fit in someone's donated baseball or ski/snowboard equipment bag. - Animal tracking - field guides, cast making materials, clay casts or posters. I found that local watershed and wildlife associations and local Audubon chapters would work with you in providing materials. You can appeal to local birding groups to donate old bins for the kit.
  7. 1 point
    They are council employees.
  8. 1 point
    I seem to recall there was an appraisal/study of the amount Bechtel could be sold for. This move seems to indicate they are cleaning up any claims in order to offer it up for sale to settle claims. One down, three to go?
  9. 1 point
  10. 1 point
    Not to forget those who were first to step in line... I am concerned that National will do something similar with camps - an essential camp list presented to court sorted by 2020 attendance figures and capacity...look at all these local council camps with low attendance and capacity, sell them first! What about member feedback, program, cost, and convenience? Oh, "Due to the rapidly changing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on councils and their camps across the country, the BSA is accelerating the annual timeline for councils to submit their “Intent to Operate” for the 2021 long-term camp season. The 2021 Intent to Operate for long-term camps and council properties due date is now September 30, 2020. Per each council’s Authorization to Operate, and as required by NCAP standard AO-802, each council must file an annual “Intent to Operate”. An Intent to Operate must be submitted for the following properties and programs: " Be sure to list your camp's past attendance figures. https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/camp-accreditation/ ...the GSUSA trademark attorneys who are now looking for $6M, and ... non-sexual injury lawsuits, ... Another $0.02, $0.01
  11. 1 point
    And now services are being cut at National and pushed down to councils...with no resources to support. I spoke with our Registrar today, and she ain't happy... btw, I think Registrars are the most under-rated, under-paid, and under-appreciated positions in council service centers... https://scoutingwire.org/transitioning-member-care-to-serve-and-support-bsa-council-staff/
  12. 1 point
    This sounds like a wonderful program - even in today's uber connected world of 2020. I don't know why this is an either/or scenario. You want the lone scout experience - join up that way. You want patrol method Scouting just a Troop. Both can exist can't they? I'm on board 100% - what do we need to do?
  13. 1 point
    I don't think so. I was a Lone Scout, and later a member of the Lone Indian Fellowship, an alumni organization made up of former Lone Scouts. I had many opportunities to speak with men who had been amongst the first group of Lone Scouts. If, however, you are speaking of my distorted eyesight, you would be absolutely correct. I had an eye doctor appointment last week, and I need new lenses. Old age is not for wimps.
  14. 1 point
    Sounds like a cool building. Anyway, a couple of unorganized thoughts: Your title might give you your answer. What do you think about "scout reach?" If you're looking down on that then don't do it. If you're unsure about what scout reach could be then you're not ready to answer your question - time to do some research. Is it possible that you are tied to the building more than the scouts? If so, that's a warning sign. What kind of help are you getting from the church? Does anyone know these kids and can they help you? Are there any other adults around to help that have a lot of scouting experience? Without any help this is going to be hard. Do these scouts trust you? They won't pay any attention to some random adult that has been assigned to them. You have to gain their respect. They likely don't have the faintest idea what scouting is about so asking them to bring their handbook to a meeting is a thought that will be flushed down the black hole of teenage forgetfulness. Until scouting means something to them you are pushing a rope up hill. But that doesn't mean this is a total loss. What do you know about these kids? They can't afford gear, that's for sure. They were told, much like going to school, that you're the teacher. Rather than ask them to meet you at your level, where you know all about scouts, it might be easier for you to first go meet them at their level. What do they want to do? Have they ever gone camping before? If all they know is baseball then that's a good place to start. I guess my point is these scouts are likely much different from what you're used to. There's going to be a bit of culture shock from both sides as you figure each other out. And it might be a good thing for both of you. Sorry, I can't answer your question, though. That one's up to you. Good luck.
  15. 1 point
    Reminder that being a SM is in fact a job. Not paid, but it is a job. You will need to evaluate this as one might a job. Are YOU able to contribute AND more importantly, does the position satisfy what you are looking for. Many times when one takes a new job it looks really good, recruiter says the right things, the people you meet say the right things...but then you get smacked with reality. The job is not a fit. At that point you are faced with the decision to endure the mismatch in the job OR move on to look for something new. Only one person can make that decision. Not the internet, not friends, not the CO, not the CC...only you
  16. 1 point
    People get into bad relationships. They think if I work harder I can change my partner and then things will be perfect! Or, if I work harder I can change myself to make my partner happy and then things will be perfect! Both scenarios are a lie and disastrous for both party's health. Now it's possible for the parties to find compromise to save their relationship but it requires change from both. That's the question you have to answer with regards to the Scoutreach unit. You have invested in the relationship and are struggling because your partner doesn't seem interested in changing to meet your vision of the relationship. Are you willing to compromise to meet them in the middle? Are they willing to change to meet you? If the answer to either is no then move on. This is a completely independent question from whether to be the SM for your old troop. On paper I like the idea of a 20-something SM but you'd need firm commitment from the committee and ASM corps especially if you want to Make any changes.
  17. 1 point
    I did not have the maturity at your age to be a good Scoutmaster. However, a mentor who I copied much of our program was a SM at age 20 and recently retired from the position at around the age of 60. I don't know if you are even ready, but I will say that I believe the position to be be more of an idealist guide than a adult teacher or leader. Your two examples are extreme opposites, but I wonder which would be more satisfying in developing as a successful program. As a 40 year old father of three kids and two Boy Scouts, I took the safe route (safe being I started a new troop with my Webelos). But, as a young man with lots of energy and few responsibilities, I might have made a different choice. Barry
  18. 1 point
    A few random tidbits ... ... I've always said that scouting is good for all youth (used to say boys), but not all youth are good for scouting. I'm not sure if you are in that situation. ... OR do you just need to re-think expectations. Do you really need the youth to show up with book and uniform ? That's the ideal, but you can still have a big positive impact. How about just making sure there's a fire pit, marshmallows, a Frisbee, a football and some good fellowship. Maybe each night you could share a really meaningful SM story with them. ... It's not your job to go down with the ship. It's not your job to fight the good fight to make the troop work. It's not a reflection on you if the scout reach troop doesn't work. ... It IS okay to pick and choose where you invest your time. It is okay to walk away. It is okay to acknowledge that this is not a good match at the current time. .... We have a local SM who I think of as a sort of hero. He's got a unique and challenging troop. Each troop meeting includes a meal as it's probably the only good meal those kids get that day. Parents have as many issues (or more) as the kids. Issue after issue. BUT, he's having a big impact. ... Several miles away is another SM who has a troop where each scout irons their neckerchief. It's a spit and polish troop out of a Normal Rockwell painting. I am impressed with both scoutmasters and I like them both as people too. Now, I'm not sure which troop I'd want my son in, but I definitely know who I'd want as my son's scoutmaster. ... It is also okay to spend a few years away from scouting to find who you are and develop skills outside scouting. When you return to the fold, you will be all the more valuable and enjoy the program even more.
  19. 1 point
    You simply are over reacting. I'm not sure where it was created, AND I don't care. Origination has nothing to do with you wanting scrap the current patrol method program. AND, you haven't yet given a good program example why Lone Scouts would be a good replacement. You just sound angry. Barry
  20. 1 point
    Great question. The original vision of Lone Scouting (Lone Scouts of America) was that the organization registers the boy, not the unit. The boy can join or quit a "patrol" or "unit" or "council" without any change in registration. The boy chooses his companions. They are not chosen for him. Lone Scouts did get together to go camping. The patrol method was used. Lone scouts were expected to be more self-reliant. They were expected to pay their own way. Very little in the way of fund raising. Very little physical infrastructure. Lone Scouting was more like pick-up-games than organized sports leagues. We still played the game, and we played by the rules, but we didn't have umpires and coaches and sponsors to contend with.
  21. 1 point
    Give up discussing ideas and opinions simply on grounds of supposed futility? Yet your statement itself expresses why we do it: Weariness over the status quo, certainly, but also hope that somehow the potential of the forum can be achieved. So it is with discussions about BSA and Scouting topics that appear to be beyond our control. We want to express frustration. We want to find out if others share our views. We want to test our views to see if the premises are valid, or if we are missing something. We want to see if someone can tell us something to help relieve our concerns or offer hope or a different perspective, or even change our minds. We are here because we are all heavily invested in the program. We are here because this forum helps us to stay invested in the program. In the end, expressing our ideas and opinions isn't about whether we can change the program but whether we can (depending on the day or the issue) let off enough steam or stoke our fire enough to continue contributing to the program. And maybe, just maybe, someday, somehow, the right person will read something here that will cause them to do something that makes a difference.
  22. 0 points
    This is incorrect. I have attached the official BSA Lone Scouting guidebook for reference. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/511-420.pdf Here is also an article from Bryan on Scouting that helps explains the origins and reasoning behind Lone Scouting: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/09/28/what-are-lone-scouts/ I don't believe the BSA has a distorted vision of Lone Scouting. It actually may be you have a distorted vision. Hope that helps. Thanks.
  23. -1 points
    Scouting, by design, is most effective when in a group setting. (i.e dens, patrols). Lone Scouting is an absolute last resort option if traditional unit can't happen. I HIGHLY DOUBT there are councils out there that will refuse to register a Lone Scout, ESPECIALLY when there is declining membership. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the "structure" of Lone Scouts is better. There is no structure....that's the point. Unless that is your argument.
  24. -1 points
    You seem to be using registration as reasoning for how Patrol Method is used, that is not the case. Patrol Method is team actions actions intended to force each scout to make decisions based off the Law and Oath. Lone Scout was created for boys in rural areas where meeting as a group is not practical. Meeting a few times a year as a group is not a reasonable application of patrol method because the scout doesn't make enough decisions to develop habits of good character. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just questioning why. Since Lone Scouts wasn't intended for using Patrol Method, why would anyone need to try when Patrol Method already exist? Seems you are going about this backwards. Why not instead use some of the advantages of Lone Scouts to improve the existing patrol method. I'm not sure what those advantages would be, but registration has little to do with youth activities intended to drive decision making. Barry
  25. -1 points
    I thought you wanted an organization where the Chartered Organizations ran everything? Why the sudden shift in heart?
  26. -1 points
    It's not like I made anything up. I literally provided official BSA sources. And David suggested Lone Scouting started in an urban environment. You and I, based on your wiki source, actually agree that it didn't
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