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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/27/20 in all areas

  1. Good question! What the BSA should jettison: Cubs What the BSA would ultimately jettison: Scouts BSA In 2020, the BSA's overall mentality operates on a cub level, even for troops and crews. Lots of adults, easy/low risk programming, tons of badges to present, national supply items galore, and everyone goes home at the end of the day. Many would say a big "no thanks" on the idea of a high adventure backpacking trip in the mountains with a crew of mercurial teens. Even though a trip like that is the true goal of scouting (at least by my definition), it would require a level o
    4 points
  2. The neat thing about the Outdoor program is that (if run correctly) Scouts learn invaluable skills and do not realize they are even in a learning situation. In their mind they are out having fun, spending time with their friends, enjoying the day away from their parents 😀. THAT is the real secret that many do not get. If one tries to turn Scouts / BSA / Whatever the new name may be into just more classes, more instruction and NOT something unique, it will continue to fade. The strength, the differentiation in the crowded youth activity market IS the outdoor program and the activities r
    4 points
  3. Having only come back to scouting a year and a half ago, I have definitely seen the popularity of MB fairs (and seen them done both very well and less well also)... but I don’t think the days of scouts being the ones making contact with MB counselors are entirely gone. I had my daughter start reach out to a Scholarship MB counselor (not associated with our or our linked troop) as an almost new scout, and when I replied to one of the intervening emails about a location to meet, the counselor politely reminded me (in a separate email chain) that it was the scout’s responsibility to do the logis
    4 points
  4. Computer skills: almost all kids have advanced computer skills. They often know more than their tech teachers in school. Bus and subway navigation: small children can figure this out easily with the help of a parent or older sibling. Math and science: does the BSA propose to teach this subjects? Going to museums to identify flora and fauna: how many youth will sign up for that? The BSA is going to have quite a challenge building an organization around these activities. Who is going to pay dues for the privilege of solving algebra word problems on the weekend?
    3 points
  5. That may be more profound that we realize. Our troop started out with heavy patrol boxes that required four scouts to carry from the trailer to the campsite. When we decided to become a dedicated backpacking troop (meaning carry all gear into camp with personal packs), we decided to make the switch over 6 month period. We thought the scouts would have a hard time getting away from the patrol boxes. Boy were we wrong. None of the six patrols took a patrol box ever again after the decision was made. We became an instant back packing troop, well except for the adults. Patrol Boxes were "work
    3 points
  6. Considering that camping is an integral part of scouting, one wonders why they are in scouting to begin with? Why join little league if one doesn't like baseball. Sure scouts is much more than a camping club, but camping is a fundamental part of the program. I also wonder how many of those adults who made those statements enjoy camping. My guess, is they do not and it rubs off on the scouts. They probably also don't know how to have fun camping.
    3 points
  7. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. mB factories are popular b/c it makes it too easy. Not necessarily the requirements (although this is true in many cases) but the process being circumvented. The process is as much a part of providing scouts growth opportunities not to mention the loss of adult association as a result of large groups. How often do we say, "don't do for a scout that which they can do for themselves"; doing all the planning, communicating, logistics of a mB session for a scout is a denial of opportunity. Yes it may be popular, but so woul
    3 points
  8. Let me say, when this actually happens, it works *chef kiss* PERFECTLY To bad CO's only do what they are supposed to probably only like 20% off the time.
    2 points
  9. I see none of these sacred cows going away. The closest one I can see are STEM scouts Certainly everyone of them on the list need to be evaluated and streamlined. For example...the scout rank requirements have gone beserk over the past 5 years. 2 pages of TF and 3 pages each for 2nd and 1st in the annual requirements books. Example...first aid requirements in each rank...just have FA MB required for TF. Unless your argument is since your can work on all three rans at the same time, why have three. Eagle scout projects procedures and approvals can be streamlined. The proces
    2 points
  10. This seems like an overly broad characterization. Just because we as scouters are used to doing things a certain way doesn't mean that's an innate preference. Lots of youth organizations have either tighter or looser controls from their parent organization, but I doubt you would find much difference in personality or motivation between the median volunteer in any of them. A strength I do think the CO system brings is continuity and institutional knowledge. Many, probably most troops that survive their first 10 years or so build up a coterie of scouters who remain with the program past
    2 points
  11. @DuctTape You are probably correct. One of the quotes "Now, I believe the majority of Americans don't want to go camping. It just isn't fun." This is form The hiking one is interesting. Many of our scouts did indicate they were not fans of hiking, including one of our scouts going to Philmont. I looked at him a bit odd after he told me hiking was his least favorite activity. I then asked … aren't you registered to go to Philmont … you realize they are not going to drive you down those trails? He smiled and said … well, I like Philmont hiking, but not our Troop hiking. Made me th
    2 points
  12. I agree. I polled our older scouts (14 and older) at the height of our troop program as to why they liked our troop, less than 25% said it was for the activities side of the program. First on their list was hanging out with their friends. I believe there was more to that because what would make our program more attractive than other Troops if it were really only about hanging out with friends. At the time, we had more age 14 and older scouts than any other troop or Venturing program unit in the council. But that is still a pretty awakening statistic. Barry
    2 points
  13. I do have a few boys that hate camping and most are pressured by the parents to stick with it. They are delighted with scouts the last 3 months and liking all the changed to MB and the ability to do tours virtually. I would prefer that they drop out of scouts so that I can have full patrols at campouts and less disruptions because they don't want to be on the campout. I am all for spinning off STEM scouts, you can still achieve citizenship, character building and leadership if you modified the program. You could build a STEM skills program with different ranks and reinforce STEM princlpl
    2 points
  14. This is the new version of the ISP Urban Hike.
    2 points
  15. As regards Chartered Organizations, I have had mixed experienced. My units have almost always been chartered by churches (Catholic, Methodist) and there it usually works really well. The Church sees Scouting as part of its youth program, and though some are better than others, clearly understand their role as COs. Usually the youth minister or religious education director or family programs minister is the COR. The pastors are supportive, whether active and directly involved or not. On the other hand, in my district now, we have international schools that either struggle with the stateme
    2 points
  16. Popcorn is a money maker. Like, I get it. Volunteer hate it.....but it's low overhead and a money maker for councils. I would reckon no council is in a good enough financial state to cut one of their largest fundraisers. I hate it, unit leaders hate it, but "merit badge factories" are just not going away because they are so popular. The day of little johnny scout calling up a merit badge counselor are long gone unfortunately (which is sad because I think that's a great skill for a scout to learn) I would love to see national simplify the recharter process. It's one of those those th
    2 points
  17. 1. Skip the slaughter house and send to the glue factory: - STEM - Popcorn - Merit badge fairs - Rechartering process 2. Dignified burial with honors: - OA (45 years an Arrowman too, ouch) - Venturing (rarely works to potential) 3. Administer diminished rations and strict fitness regimen: - Cub scouting: reduce overall program, ranks/badges and overhead by 50 percent (a never ending program that pleases execs and national supply) - Uniform items overall: reduce by 90 percent (buy Dickies work clothes instead, pants and shirt, and sew or pi
    2 points
  18. This a good question. However, I think it generates another: after the smoke clears, will there be sufficient council or national staff left to instruct/rule units? The way things are going, I doubt it. Units will probably be more autonomous than ever. I've never seen a CO operate "as advertised." COs are usually quite distant. The construct also allows council to say to units "you belong to us, do as we say" or "you don't belong to us, see your CO" as it benefits the council and the BSA, not the units.
    2 points
  19. I personally think that way too much emphasis has been placed on "character building " and " lesson teaching" anyway. I have never heard a youngster say that they joined scouts to "have their character built" or to "learn the lessons of life". Way too much time and money has been wasted developing a bunch of academic bu*&l s&#t that should just flow naturally in conjunction with a fun outdoor program. You want to teach "fairness", just have a string burning contest. You want to teach self reliance, just keep your fat adult nose out of their camp planning and have the brass to let th
    2 points
  20. Get rid of popcorn! Sacred Cow that I'd love to be part of the slaughter. We're still in suspension of all in person activities here in MA until June 15, but, yup, today we got the email from Council about the start of the Trail's End selling season...
    2 points
  21. I think you're right. Cub Scouts is incredibly flexible when it comes to subject matter, so you don't have the same problem as Scouts BSA and its association with the outdoors. And those Cubbies are so darn cute in their uniforms, especially the youngest ones, and they sell a lot of popcorn. Now, I could see Scouts BSA being cut down to a strictly two- or three-year trail-to-Eagle program: Forty or so merit badges (that seems to be about the average these days) earned at monthly merit badge fairs, a few token campouts (but cabins are okay) and hikes (though you could substitute snowbo
    1 point
  22. Welcome! Thanks for the clarification!
    1 point
  23. The PBGC will not pay what was owed to the employee unless the pension was fully funded (not likely given the COVID market crash) and the recipient was retirement eligible at the time of default. The PBGC pays me about 65% of what I would have gotten without my employer defaulting - my pension fund was 86% funded and I was 25 years into my career, so not retirement eligible at the time of default. The other nugget is that PBGC payments are fixed - once you start drawing your pension, they will never go up. Also, the PBGC is not exactly financially robust, either.
    1 point
  24. Pension funds (defined benefit) are to some extent guaranteed by the Federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. If an employee is vested, they will likely get some benefits, but the PBGC DOES NOT have to pay what was promised to the employees. It typically is the full amount, but given all the craziness with COVID-19 and possible bankruptcies related to that, I can't say with certainty. Defined contribution plan, any employer matches that are vested are the employees to keep. Matches can be reduced or cut at any time. The future of the BSA is uncertain, and I'd never gamble my livelih
    1 point
  25. You likely have some marketable skills. It's clear the BSA isn't looking out for you as an employee, and future decline is likely inevitable. You should make for the exits before everybody else gets the same idea. It's noble to "go down with the ship" but I like being able to pay my bills and retire someday.
    1 point
  26. I found a posting on Talk About Scouting Facebook page about this slide from the National Annual Meeting. The summary is similar to what I have heard directly from our scouts. What shocked me was the many contributors who stated their scouts disliked camping. Someone mentioned that on Eagle BORs he heard STEM as the leading answer. Others mentioned that their scouts "get their 20 nights in" then never camp again. Then this quote came up. The BSA needs to figure out what our youth DO NEED TO SURVIVE and to get ahead in TODAY'S world. They need computer literacy, math, science, program
    1 point
  27. The only reason that it is not sustainable today is because the BSA bowed down to the social principals that resulted in the loss of funding provided by big business. As a result the precepts of the Scout Oath and law were watered down or completly ignored. During the successful years Boy Scouts was for boys. It was available to anyone but not everyone was compatible because they did not adhere to the Scout Oath and Law. Now the model is Scouting is everything for everyone, everybody should be able to do whatever, however, and whenever and get a prize for doing it. If it's hard, let's make
    1 point
  28. While this may be technically the way it works, it's the wrong model and it sets expectations that inherently unsustainable today. Successful packs and troops build themselves. They encourage parents to volunteer. They create camaraderie amongst volunteers so that they stay engaged. They focus on youth membership and quality of program. It's too easy in the BSA to say "I focus on program" to the detriment of adult volunteers and youth membership. In my district, the strongest units are those that focus on these aspects. The weakest are those that do not.
    1 point
  29. The "OUTING" in SCOUTING applies to everything else, without a classroom, pedagogical situation. THAT is Scouting's advantage. Math? Physics? Compass, mapping, rough surveying..... Electromagnetism? That's the compass, flashlights & batteries. Simple machines? Action reaction? Ropes and Pioneering and set up a tent/dining fly in the rain.... Psychology? Interpersonal relationships? outside of the family, dealing with "work to be done to survive (Patrol cooking? Duty roster? )", contests to test your skill? History? Citizenship, Patriotism? depends on where
    1 point
  30. This really is not very complicated. The charterd organization owns the unit and it IS their responsibility to recruit adult leadership. The adult leadership KNOW that they represent the charterd organization and MUST abide by the dictates of the charterd organization AND the BSA. After that it gets even easier, the adult leaders provide a leadership and program model that is strictly governed by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. That's it... Advancement has gotten ridiculous. Tenderfoot focused on learning about Scouting, Second Class focused on hiking and getting outside, Fir
    1 point
  31. I don't see what eliminating the CO model will do to address any of the issues in the BSA today. To me, it's kinda putting another band-aid on a big wound. Same with popcorn, the OA, merit badge colleges. The big problems in the BSA are: attracting and retaining you members and adult volunteers national lawsuits are fundamentally destroying the image of Scouting and enthusiasm of members the cost of the organization designed to support the youth programming is too high for the value it brings Seems to me that all these sacred cows need to be looked at in this light.
    1 point
  32. Change in attitude... My mom grew up in Boston in the 1920's and 30's . Bus and interurban trains were her thing. When it came to visiting the city, we often drove to the local bus/streetcar terminal(20 miles away) and rode the car into the city to the museums (Washington DC.). No more streetcars, but DC had to fight to gain the Metro it so appreciates now. True story: One of my assignments before I retired was to close up the local bus service. Last bus came into the depot around 1:15am. One friday night, about 11pm, I answered the phone. Man's voice asks if I could answer some
    1 point
  33. Mrjeff is, I believe, addressing program, not goals. BF warned against asking youths to join an educational program to make them better citizen of the Empire. "So with Boys"
    1 point
  34. And as it happens, we already have a corps of volunteers at the district and council levels who are dedicated to building high-quality units. Units owned by the Council, supervised by the volunteer Commissioners.
    1 point
  35. I would agree with this statement for sure. My son does like camping, but at age 17 he likes camping that involves allowing him to be in fairly in control of what he does while camping. He appreciates his first few years in his former troop that it helped him get to where he is advancement-wise and with some of the skills he has, but that troop is about advancement 90% of the time on their camping trips. Most of it is car camping only, the SM dictates that he wants a schedule from the SPL on what time breakfast is, what advancement activities are being offered from 8:30-noon, what is being
    1 point
  36. "Don't Ask-Don't Tell" was adopted by National in the 1990's at the insistence of certain subgroups active in the BSA. This caused internal conflict, because faith groups had different positions on the matter. So, we had certain faith groups insisting on adoption and enforcement of membership standards that were not agreeable to other faith groups. Certain external advocacy organizations that had positive or neutral views of the BSA instantaneously despise us. This catastrophic policy change is among the major causes of our big problems today. Those of us at the grassroots level can
    1 point
  37. Said document https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/820848_695.pdf contains a revised victim application and claim procedures from those in use from the start of bankruptcy. Specifically, page 14 12. The General Bar Date Notice, the Abuse Claims Bar Date Notice, the Abuse Claims Publication Notice, a form of the Abuse Claims Publication Notice adapted for email format (the “Abuse Claims Email Notice”), and the form of television spot copy (the “Abuse Claims TV Spot”) attached to this Order as Exhibits 1,2,3,4, and 5 respectively, are hereby approved. A
    1 point
  38. The problem I have with popcorn is two-fold. 1. It violates the BSA's own rules on fundraisers. (product price much be in relation to product value) I realize they have the authority to authorize any fundraiser they want, but "We can do this and you can't" just always sours the ears of people who hear it. 2. The fact that it seems easy because "This is what we've always done" seems to be the primary motivator for councils. At this point, this fundraiser is NOT a product sale, it's essentially a donation drive. Given that fact, why continue using a product that is as fundamentally
    1 point
  39. The above graph 100% matches my experience. I challenge the ability to separate the 1st (camping) and 2nd (time with friends). Many scouts see camping as fun because they hang with their friends away from the normal world / adults / homework / etc. They get to create their own world that they control ... until the next big thunderstorm.
    1 point
  40. Another aspect of the Chartered Organization structure is the influence that it gives to outside organizations (such as churches) that sponsor many units. When the institutional views of the BSA and the institutional views of the outside organization are compatible, the relationship is productive. When those views diverge -- which we have experienced a couple of times in the last decade -- it is not just major donations to BSA that suffer. It can reach all the way down to the unit level, with the loss of meeting places and even the loss of membership.
    1 point
  41. $7M in advertising seems like a lot … when was the last time National spent $7M on advertising? This fall is going to be rough.
    1 point
  42. It is great when you have a CO that is interested and engages in some manner to their unit(s). There is a lot that the COR is theoretically supposed to be involved in- they are supposed to be actively participating in the district/council level as well. They are supposed to be the most informed of the unit key 3, in theory. And i don't doubt that there are a good number who are. I just haven't seen that in practice around my area. I think as others have said, for a new unit there may be engagement, but ongoing engagement is probably where more can/should be done. For American Legion uni
    1 point
  43. It really looks like our CO / Pack / Troop relationship is a little different. We have been chartered by FUMC for many many years in town. I am not even sure the duration really. Our current COR (who is looking to get out of the position after a lengthly time) was a Scout and will come to events in uniform. I do have the COR in my contacts on my phone and I do text or call him directly if I need something, and he does know who I am. He also will attend committee meetings on occasion. IH- as it is in the Methodist Church they switch out pastors on a fairly consistent interval.
    1 point
  44. 5/26/2020: Judge Silverstein's Order regarding (I) ESTABLISHING DEADLINES FOR FILING PROOFS OF CLAIM, November 16, 2020. 5pm Eastern Time (II) ESTABLISHING THE FORM AND MANNER OF NOTICE THEREOF, (III) APPROVING PROCEDURES FOR PROVIDING NOTICE OF BAR DATE AND OTHER IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO ABUSE SURVIVORS, AND (IV) APPROVING CONFIDENTIALITY PROCEDURES FOR ABUSE SURVIVORS https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/820848_695.pdf But the USA Today story is more readable Initially, the Boy Scouts had proposed 80 days for survivors to come forwa
    1 point
  45. Most chartered organizations are not involved in their units and never will be. That means is that a poor operating style in a unit that is doing a disservice to its members is protected by the indifference of the chartered organization. The interests of a district or council leader are money, members, and manpower (volunteers), and those three things only come from high performing units that have trained leaders and active outdoor programs. I want the boss to be somebody who knows what the program is supposed to look like and has the authority to put the right people in the right spots.
    1 point
  46. You presume that the COs are actually engaged and it is operating that way. I will say for my unit, but also my district, it is not. There has been only 2 COs from my district that have attended a district or council wide meeting in the past three years (as admitted by our now past-District Chair). Our CO has never met with nor spoken to anyone from council/District in the past 5 years. The model is not working.
    1 point
  47. Hey, these are certenly unique ideas. Wow, let the CO be responsible or take the CO out of the picture and allow a BSA Committee dictate how the units are administered. Chop the OA or turn it into some kind of money making labor force. Get rid of the classic BSA uniform or just wear polo shirts. Why have ranks at all and and just give everybody recognition. Scout handbooks? That's a preposterous idea since EVERYTHING is automated and can be accesse5on line. Campgrounds and Scout Reservations are outdated and expensive, how about just creating a virtual world where you can go on a camp ou
    1 point
  48. I should have added … single gender Troops. I think someone mentioned that BSA would focus less on "character" and with the loss of LDS, I expect the declaration of religious principles to fall.
    1 point
  49. The most obvious #1 "sacred cow" as you mentioned is Eagle Scout. It is synonymous in the public with Boy Scouts of America as evident by that term in literature and movies. Also there is a large active alumni group, NESA, and even larger number of Eagles who have supported the Scouts in the past. That support would be jeopardized. Further, the BSA has turned it into a goal or "brand" and is the very reason why girls wanted to join the BSA. So it may be considered the "holy of holies," with no prejudice towards our Jewish brethren (why it is lowercase). So I think Eagle Scout is safe. Y
    1 point
  50. Approximately 1650 year end.
    1 point
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