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Agreed. Lets rip the bandaid off. We need to put these cases behind us for good, and protect the CO's from potential liability. I hope my council participates in the settlement. Ideally try to keep local camp properties if the council can afford them. I'd be sad to see us lose the HA bases, but they aren't the meat and potatoes like summer camp is. I share @MattRs concern. The program has always been about character building and citizenship development. Camping and outdoor fun is important because it (along with the patrol method) is how we accomplish these bigger goals. If Scoutin

If we become Family Scouts, I am gone, and i believe a large number of traditionalists with the knowledge, skills, and abilities to keep the program alive will as well. It will no longer the progran we signed up for. Worse I think youth will lose interest fast. I was in a "family friendly " troop. The youth had been complaining about the interference for some time. When my family had enough and left, that was the wakeup call for them. That wasvwhen the COR said no more. And a lot of youth who were on the verge of leaving decided to stay.

Ding dong the beret is dead, the beret is dead, THE BERET IS DEAD

I am hoping that since we will be removing program for the 18-20 years olds, we will be able to use them once again for YP purposes. After all if everyone over 18 is an adult , and not a mix of adults and "adult participants" there would be some consistency. But if they do not change the YP standards to allow for 18-20 years olds to be a 2nd registered adult, AND Sea Scouting, the OA, Exploring, and Venturing are no longer for them, then I see us losing a bunch of the best and brightest. After I turned 18, Sea Scouts and the OA kept me interested. And it complemented my responsibilitie

When those of us here on the forums gripe about Family Scouting, we aren't talking about girls, or families renting a campsite at camp outside of summer camp. We're talking about the BSA encouraging families to attend monthly troop outings. Most of us have seen it in our units, or others. It's normally a mess of helicopter parenting and demotivated youth. It breaks down the patrol method, and stifles team development and learning of self sufficiency. Nothing wrong with a parent coming along to volunteer or observe. I imagine the idea of having families camp at the summer camp while the p

Many here who never saw or participated in these "surveys" are eager to know more about them - who conducted, how many participated , demographics, questions asked, results,...

I too don’t want Scouts to devolve into “Family Camping”. I am working on a “white paper” on what I view Family Scouting as; it is NOT family camping. I think National didn’t really describe it other than “now girls can join, so that means the whole family.” Read or ignore our approach to Family Scouting below. -------------------------------------------------- I give full credit to our COR who has had the vision. I have been working on “documenting” it. Chartered Org charters at least: Family Pack (boys and girls), Boy Troop, and Girl Troop. Need to try to have Lions den, as th

Our camps have been canceled for all the the lower penninsula of Michigan for the summer and no in person meetings/activities until further notice. On a different but related note, 2 dams in mid Michigan failed 2 nights ago after the region received 8 inches of rain in less than 2 days. The staff and neighbors of Camp Rotary loaded most/all of the camps beds for summer camp into trucks and took them to the flood zone for shelters to use. See the link below for more info. Summer camp may not be going here in the lower mitten but the beds are going to good use. https://www.themor

The beret and Dracula have one thing in common - neither will ever die!😁

We need to change. Even without the lawsuits and bankruptcy, we need to change. We're going the way of bowling alleys right now. I'm 50 and as a kid, I lived in a bowling alley. It was tough getting a open lane at times. People belonged to leagues. Since then, society changed and belonging to a league is not something people want to do. We can't be nostalgic. We have to figure out how we can serve today's youth. Lots of people think they have the answers. I don't claim to know who has the right answers. I suspect adults younger than me with younger kids will know better than people 50 -

I agree that we must keep a stiff upper lip, but this is wholly unfair. BSA has been a huge net positive. BSA had a youth protection program in place years before others. BSA did the best to track and remove violators before society and police had similar structures. BSA is being uniquely targeted because of assets without parallel targeting of structures with similar assets that had arguably statistically similar abuse history: schools. sports. and almost every single youth serving organization. BSA is being targeted using 2020 standards / expectations / judgement that were not existi

You mean when I ask a question from Council employees and they ignore me or when the DE ignores me or at least doesnt follow up and I have to figure it out on my own. Its going to be like that? 🤣

I think the commenters who have urged this approach are going to get their wish. We are going to be a smaller, simplified organization after this with a dramatically slimmed-down cost structure. Few properties to fund, not many executives and on-line materials. Probably simple, inexpensive uniforms. Volunteers running most things. My Troop won't notice much change.

Most of the chapter officers like chief, secretary, ceremonies chair, around here are the 16-19 crowd. The lodge officers are 18-20 years old. I don't see very many 17 year old scouts with the experience or maturity to run a 4,000 member lodge. Even with the best of help. I fear we will see the Order run by adults even more than it is now. Which means the scouts will leave it even faster. On a smaller scale note, the five best ceremonalists on the four chapters in my area are all over 18. They are the ones who do most of the teaching, encouraging, and occasional rebuking. If we los

Just released.

Our Troop was just cutting the apron strings from a Family model when I joined (my son crossed over). The Scoutmaster who was leading that effort at the time recruited me... After about a year of transition from Advanced Cub Scouts to youth led/patrol method, the old guard of the committee stopped supporting his efforts and he left. One of the old guard stepped in to be SM, and tried to return to the old ways. It was a disaster. I appealed to our Commissioner and DE. The Commissioner tried to help educate the parents and Committee on what Scouting is, but it fell on deaf ears. We lost a

At least in my neck of the woods, a lot of those folks feel abandoned and betrayed by the BSA over the past few years. They are no longer interested inthe BSA as a national org, although they will support local units. Sadly, BSA does not have the best PR folks. They should have been ahead of this, talking about how BSA was a leader in youth protection instead of letting the lawyers lead the arguments Forgot the date of the NPR interview, and it comes towards the very end of the interview, but the lead lawyer stated he wanted the BSA dissolved, and if a n

I got the survey. But I remember nothing about Family camping...my responses were primarily in favor of opening the program to girls, and to keep it separate-gendered so as not to be a distraction for youth. I have participated in co-ed Scouting in Sweden, and boy-girl issues were always at the forefront. I have friends in Scouting organizations in Germany, Luxembourg, Canada, and Namibia...same story...intermingling the genders has some advantages for "socialization" and learning to interact, but relationships/love spats/breakups tend to be always rearing their ugly heads. I have seen the

This will require significant training of parents to not interfere by "stopping by to visit" or "bringing treats", etc... As it stands, parents are allowed to view all program, so nothing bars them from interference except training them to not interfere. But I suspect, that is truly what many parents want (b/c they do not understand the real purpose of Scouts) so to suggest program will not change is folly.

Looking past the very murky comments by some here, I cannot comprehend the idea of removing Character Building from the program. Of course, the lawyers and some of their litigants missed that boat a long time ago, or we would not be in this position now. Of course, in almost any other country that is part of the World Organization, this would not be able to be happening, as they have more rational legal systems that do not allow this kin of BS. Lets face it, we live in a society that has far too many people that have learned to play the blame game, and a legal system that exacerbates

And you can bring your kids and their friends - with parental permission - without having to have another adult and trying to stick to adhere to guidelines that are arcane, insipid, or just downright foolish. PLEASE share that link with me

I will want my council to contribute to the Victim’s fund and benefit from a discharge from liability. Giving up some assets will give us a fresh start without fear of pre-petition claims haunting us in the future. The folks from Ohio would be forced overnight into a council bankruptcy if at some point In the future the Ohio legislature were to repeal the statute of limitations.

Eagledad: On more than one occasion you have mischaracterized our 32-member girl Troop as overly-oriented toward generating Eagles, presumably at the expense of not having an evenly-balanced program. We certainly have our go-getters like we had in the Troop of my youth, but their presence is normal and expected. Most members are enjoying the program and progressing at their chosen pace. You have no basis upon which to make those slams. As for the Venturing program, because it will now terminate at age 18 the differences between it and Scouts BSA are not as pronounced. The a

You are making many conclusions from such a short post. And please notice, I didn't say "our unit." Yes, "babysitting." 14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds. The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few. "The unit leaders are doing it wrong." Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume. Where the rest of your rant is going, it's hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high?

I don't know John, but in the middle of the night, I heard a thumping sound from my footlocker of scouting artifacts...there's at least one red beret in there for sure....

I'm still a bit confused as to how so much of the council assets can be brought into this. The councils are separate legal entities, domiciled in their own states; that's a hard vale to pierce. For instance, I live in Ohio, no change in the statute of limitations in other states affects my council's liability. National does not have the authority to order us to turn over assets to it, and so neither does the bankruptcy court. The power that National does hold over us is the charter, which really boils down to the copyrights. So the real drop dead question for us would be how much ar

Carebear, I'm sure you recall those red berets made great pot holders, especially when frying bacon in an aluminum Trail Chef skillet. As for what the future holds, I'm of the opinion "so let it be." Let's meet our obligations in a scout-like manner, and then relaunch a program that resembles something Baden Powell and Green Bar Bill would recognize.

Friends, The initial announcements portend that we will be a different organization very soon. No more youth program past age 18. National will limit its activity to council services only. We will have a single "onboarding" membership platform. The regions and areas will be discontinued in favor of a downsized system. The organization will be rebranded after the bankruptcy is completed. Local councils will be significantly impacted, as the plaintiffs are primarily aiming at council assets. This includes camps, offices, everything. The BSA has had a very difficult time with the bankruptc

Perhaps I missed it.... Are unique BSA trademarks up for liquidation as well? How much is the trademark "Eagle Scout" worth? http://licensingbsa.org/trademarks/

Can you provide links to the surveys as well as their methodologies? I am still waiting for the results of the last membership survey of members that was taken. They have released some data of non-members about the membership policy changes, but not the members' data. @Sentinel947 said it best And if the data contradicts what they want to do, they ignore the results. Don't believe me? Look at "instapalms" where 18% were against it and 76% were strongly against it. You think BSA would not do something that 94% of those polled were against! Yet they implemented instapalms anyway.

I find myself wondering where are all the "champions" or "connected" supporters of Scouting at this point? Those people that call on BSA to be on hand for public events; those people that reach out to BSA for service and that benefit from all the Eagle and other projects? Where are the loud braggart pols that line their public image with their support of Scouting or even that they were or are Scouters or Eagles? Where are the legal experts that should be able to combat the overreach of the lawyers that only want to grow rich off the mistakes of a group that has given so much to our society

So, we walk away from our Congressional Charter?

Me, too. We joined for the character building. Camping and other activities keep the youth interested, but if it becomes just a camping club, then we can do that much cheaper and with no "red tape" on our own.

Maurice Chevalier please call your office. Aw, aw, aw,,,

I read an article the other day in which one of the plaintiff's lawyers was discussing council assets. His basic premise was that if every council does not turn over an accounting of all their holdings, they will file multiple suits against every council in a state which will allow them to do so. Some have already started to file against councils this week. They see $$$ and they think they see blood in the water. While I feel for those people who were genuinely harmed, I wonder if any of them realize that when all is said and done, they will receive a miniscule portion of any settlemen

I don't know why there is some presumptive notion within their statement that when two (or more) units get together, "competition" is the basis for doing so. Two units can't just get together on an event for fellowship, or because it is more cost friendly to share expenses? Yikes.

I think a lot of us have followed that kind of strategy for years, however I have become increasingly concerned over the years and even more recently this year with liability issues. If you are not following scout policies and procedures it does raise some problematic possibilities. I have always carried a large umbrella policy but the judgments today are becoming astronomical. What I once considered large -- $2 million -- no longer gives me peace of mind.

The lawyers for the victims groups have been clear. 85% of assets in BSA are owned by councils, only 15% by National. The 15% is simply not enough to pay all claims. Either councils fork over a big amount of $$ in bankruptcy court or they will sue in state courts. So, if Ohio never changes their law, the risk to your council is probably lower than those in California, New York, Illinois, etc. However, the impact on the brand will continue for many years as state laws change and new lawsuits are filed. I'm not sure I want to keep hearing about lawsuits 10 years from now … but I also

Thanks for the updates … my biggest concern is loss of land. Primarily Philmont, Sea Base and council camps. I'm sure there is probably excess in some councils, but it is tough to put on good camporees (such as Klondike) or summer camp at public facilities or state parks. It was bad enough when we went to a camp with a non private lake. Completely understand there will be some loss, but hopefully we have enough to continue the program. Otherwise, I simply hope we survive in some form. I don't see how national or regional overhead loss will be negative, but time will tell. Scouts BS

What this means is that the volunteer in charge will ignore you and not get back to you and then you can figure it our on your own! Looks like it is the same thing.

NOT AGAIN! Isn't once in a lifetime enough?

I'm hopeful that with ending "youth" at 18 and declaring all of those over 18 "adults" may give a glimmer of hope that we can go back to treating those 18-20 year olds as adults! Stop making them some middling group that are not quite adults that matter.

PACAN: I think aspects of the program will change. They said there will be a national "re-branding" of the organization coming out of bankruptcy. A re-branding after what we will have gone through by then (and the previous 5 years) does not take the form of a new logo. I have no inside information, but I'll predict that we will drop "Boy Scouts of America" or "BSA" for a new name, and this might be influenced by the GSUSA trademark litigation that I believe the bankruptcy judge will allow to go forward this summer. If we abandon the BSA name and the GSUSA litigation prevent us from u

Based on what cburkhardt posted before, I called in (you also did a good job summarizing). I wonder about the OA going to 21 if the other groups don’t. Not that OA is a stand alone group. One could say that National is sized for an organization that no longer exists. As part of this downsizing, I would be ruthless and cut most things that don’t pay their own way with dues and donations. Areas to look at would be Exploring and STEMScouts. Does Sea Scouting need to be rolled back into Venturing? The Regional and Area structure do seem over sized as well. You left

@TimB, I'm completely tracking with your concerns. In 2018, I worked non-stop to put a crew together for Philmont. Sparing all of the details, we had 3 different crew number changes over time (long story), I went from associate advisor, to advisor, back to associate. We had the minimum crew permitted of adults and scouts from two different councils, three units. All manner of heroic planning and such...then we know how it ended. Season burned out two days from getting on the road. A few thoughts: - I'm familiar with the itinerary y'all selected. As others have mentioned, it's a

Maybe the lack of mBs and no dining halls will allow scouts to have a real summer camp as described by BP instead of simply "living under canvas".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Every healthy NFP organization has regular and significant turnover on its Executive Board. It just keeps things fresh and inserts a form of natural transparency because newer board members usually enjoy polling their friends on important issues being considered. It also allows for the most successful volunteers to bring their top council experience to the decision-making. The BSA national structure includes many fine scouters with great council experience -- many have been council presidents. However, too many in the key positions have served in national roles for over 20 years and have n

Scout leaders friends and family- We are Just Leaders . We are not experts. We're your next door neighbours. We're not perfect; we are just parents like you. We don't have anymore spare time or energy than you do, we all work full time and juggle our families and our schedules and try to keep it all together as best we can. The only difference between us is that we believe in what Scouting has to offer. So much so, that we contribute our time, our miles, and our talents to help our children and your children grow in Scouting. We complete authorization forms, budgets, and reg

Ron Robinson, on left, earned his Eagle Scout rank at 14 back in 1959. Ron's son Ryan earned Eagle. Recently, his grandson Nathan, on right, also earned Eagle at age 14. Congratulations to all three. Story link. Note how much wider our old sashes were, material was thicker too. Ron's Scout Sign necker slide was likely carved from a Make-Your-Own kit which were popular back in the day. Also looks like a full size necker, properly worn over the collar.