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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/13/20 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    From my experience, the saturation of those with adult-led scouting experience happened a long long time ago. With them it is even more difficult (impossible) to break them of that habit/belief. Most do not even realize it and will just respond with " well that's how my old troop did it." While I agree with Barry that an excellent patrol method, scout-led, scouting program will manifest as adults who are better able to provide a quality scouting program compared to those with little/no experience; those with a adult-led scouting experience are much much worse than those with little/no experience. At least the latter can be trained.
  2. 2 points
    Gradually, our culture has begun to value Eagle Scout (or just "Scout" in general) less and less. Someone previously mentioned, a Scout's rank was supposed to reflect what he can DO. Those days seem gone. I absolutely hate this "one and done" program. It fosters an extremely poor attitude towards learning and retaining skills, and encourages taking "the path of least resistance". They follow the lead of adults, because that is what their parents and our current culture have conditioned them to do. They (and parents) just want to have you teach the skill, let the Scout demo it once, get the req signed off, RAM dump it, and get the badge. This mentality will continue to erode the "brand", and eventually, our nation (seriously). Most Scouts I see now have no initiative. I seek to train young people to look for, on their own, what to do it, and without prompting, to do it. Maybe I am just an old fart, but this seems to be a more rare commodity. I perceived this in the military, too...as the years went by, the youngers seemed more reticent to take chances. However, it was awesome to empower them to make decisions, and then BACK THEM UP, even when they made mistakes. Then self-reliant, yet interdependent, leaders emerged. These are exactly the things BP saw over 100 years ago, and part of the reason he started Scouting...so I guess it is cyclical in societies. Are we at, or approaching, a low point now? Adults make great Senior Patrol Leaders...but that is not our job. An outdoor, skills-oriented program is a pied piper for boys...they love it. Have you seen the look on a young man's (or, yes, woman's) face when he chops down a tree? Or swims a mile? Or actually completes a TRUE orienteering course? Or when he gets up in the morning after spending the night under the stars at 25 Fahrenheit? Or finishes 20 miles hiking in a day? (And how do you feel when you still do these things?) Magic
  3. 2 points
    Goodness I've tried. I brought up discussions in my leaders courses and even created a council leaders course specifically on the subject of giving scouts the trust to screw up because they develop character from the decisions. A couple of adults come back and tell me stories of how they changed their program from the course, but in general I found the loud crickets in the background. I believe our parental instinct to protect our kids is greater than the wisdom of letting youth learn by their own efforts. The reason that scouting carries on with adults who have a youth scouting experience isn't so much those adults value the growth from making independent decisions, they are simply doing the easy thing of continuing the scouting experience of their youth. That certainly was the case for me. I do believe if National took and interest of showing the relationship between giving scouts independence to make decisions and the resulting growth, more adults would take interest. But, in these times of adding more adult participation for youth protection, I don't see that happening. In fact, the membership changes over last few years are bringing in even more adults without a youth scouting experience, which is making the problem more complex. Eventually this program will become saturated enough with adults who have a youth scouting experience to carry tradition forward, but what kind of program did they experience. I'm confident it won't be much like the traditional program that my dad, me and my son's experienced. Is it a program that my son's will want for my grand kids? Barry
  4. 2 points
    With a warhammer to the head after rolling a 20 to hit and rollng an 8 for damage. Seriously though, the the only way I have seen this work is for 2 Adults to ride herd on the interfering adults and constantly making sure they do not cause trouble. Then as their Scout matures, they get it. Problem is the following: 1) You need 2 adults to maintain eternal vigilance over the interfering adults 2) You gotta make rules AND ENFORCE THEM. You cannot compromise as it give the interfering parents hope. 3) It takes a long time, several months at a minimum, sadly several years, to make the adults realize that failure is learning. 4) Sometimes people just won't get it.
  5. 1 point
    I wonder if they will tell us, like they told us about mortgaging Philmont and other assets last year. But whether they do or not, being in Chapter 11 will likely require court approval of any "significant structural change" though I suppose they could nominate a CSE to be in compliance with the current Bylaws. That was the year that was. My $0.02,
  6. 1 point
    Parents not overly supervising their Scouts? Allowing, even ENCOURAGING them to go exploring on their own? Must be a new concept for some. For some... What a concept. https://www.atmuseum.org/1936-boy-scout-thru-hike.html
  7. 1 point
    I don't think there is anything wrong with him discussing it with the MBC, but if it were my son, I'd suggest the issue be raised as a question rather than an accusation. Something like: "Hey, I just wanted to clarify something to make sure I understand it correctly. I noticed that some of the scout folders were full of pictures that were taken "of them" by someone else and not photos they took, but I thought we were only supposed to post pictures we took ourselves. Am I correct, or are photos taken by someone else acceptable?" And then he'll need to just leave it at that unless he's asked for an example of a photo set taken by someone else.
  8. 1 point
    @InquisitiveScouter , I'm laughing out loud. Prospective Parent: Is ___ in your crew? Me: Yes, ___ is our CC. Parent: Then my kids aren't joining it! Me: Well, would you like to be CC? Parent: No!!!!!! Me to Myself: (Dodged a bullet with that one.)
  9. 1 point
    "The Good Idea Fairy" (TGIF) TGIF: "We really oughta do this idea I have!" Me: "That's a great idea! Get started, and let us know if you need any help or funds to make it happen!" TGIF: "Oh, I don't really have time to do that. I was just suggesting it for the Troop to do. But it would be easy, and a great thing to do!" Me: 👿
  10. 1 point
    Scout leaders friends and family- We are Just Leaders . We are not experts. We're your next door neighbours. We're not perfect; we are just parents like you. We don't have anymore spare time or energy than you do, we all work full time and juggle our families and our schedules and try to keep it all together as best we can. The only difference between us is that we believe in what Scouting has to offer. So much so, that we contribute our time, our miles, and our talents to help our children and your children grow in Scouting. We complete authorization forms, budgets, and registrations, and fill our homes with boxes of paperwork that you will never see. We are required to take 13-20 hours of training the first year, as well as attend Group and District meetings every month, so that we can meet our greatest challenge- providing a variety of programs which meet the needs and interests of very individual youth members. We try to involve parents who want us to understand that they don't have the time to drive on outings or help at meetings. We rejoice at the generosity of others. Sometimes we find ourselves going in too many directions. We run out of steam. We have memory lapses. Communication lines break down. Time slips by. But that doesn't mean we don't care. So many evenings we spend on the phone, seeking advice and support from other Leaders when disappointments or problems occur. "How do I keep my youth member’s attention?" "What are your ideas for the ceremony?" "How do you work with youth members in three different badge levels?" Our dining tables are covered with bits of rope, menus, overnight activity forms, and badge cards for each and every youth in the section. A couple of them won't show up, and don't think to call and let us know. Sometimes we feel unappreciated. Yet, these youth members can fill us with pride at their determination and accomplishments. Their smiles light up a room; and when they say "Thank You" it makes it all worth it. We help these youth members build relationships. Some struggle more than others. Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly... is encouraged by the Scout Oath and Law. And sometimes we too must learn these lessons over and over again with the youth members. But we are willing to keep learning. Please be patient if we appear distracted or frustrated or overwhelmed at times. Forgive us if we are not the kind of Scout Leader you would be if you had the time. Instead, provide us with encouragement or offer your help. Keep us in your thoughts and prayers. We are, after all, only mentors...role models...Leaders. Volunteers who have taken an oath to give these youth members, your Youth Members, the most precious gift we have to offer- the gift of time. * author unknown(but obviously an experienced Scout Leader)
  11. 1 point
    Our NT trek is still on (June 27-July 4) out of Ely, and both crews are still going. As we had paid everything except airfare, we paid that also (and got a great discount on southwest!). A few adults are worried about the air travel, but it beats 16 hours in the car just to Minneapolis. I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm not worried about the air travel or NT. The BWCA is one of the most isolated places I've been and rarely see anyone when I'm out there. The crew's are already small sized, and i have no problems sharing a tent with the other adults in my crew, or riding in a van with the other scouts. I for one would have liked to been out and moving around and just get it over with, if I'm in the small percentage that gets it and actually gets sick, so it would be over and done. It's a risk, all high adventure is.
  12. 1 point
    There was a national webinar last week regarding CDC guidelines, camp preparedness, needed supplies, etc. National is being very supportive and offering many resources. Your council is probably waiting for the official CDC, state, and local guidelines.
  13. 1 point
    Once upon a time, I held the position of "First Assistant Everything Else". Even had a badge of office. My wonderful wife was the Cub Scout Day Camp Director. Son was a Wolf. (much later, an Eagle. Another story...) I went and got Archery Range Safety Officer trained, and "did the Range" many years. Scout Son even grew up to help. Later, his Troop wanted to do archery, so we arranged with a private Archery Club to visit their range (archery Merit Badge, among other things). They had Scout Leaders and abided with all BSA rules, so it was a good thing. Before we went, Scoutson asked me if he could do a Safety Talk with the Troop. I said sure, "you know my methods", I'll watch. He did a good job, but I thought he had neglected some items, so I interrupted and spoke up. Later that evening, Scoutson gently chastised me about how I had embarrassed him by publicly (!) interferring with his talk, that he had not yet mentioned the things I interjected. I realized what I had done, and promised not to be so "parenty" again. I tried hard not to. Scoutson became "THE" Totin' Chip Instructor for the Troop. Oh, and the Archery Camp was a large success.
  14. 1 point
    It's not clear when or if the draft CDC guidelines will be released. The draft I saw would certainly seem to preclude any residential scout camping in most areas of the country and would require major changes in traditional scout programming even in day camps. Hopefully we'll know more in a few days. I personally don't think regional or HA camps should be operating this summer. I think some version of highly local, unit run, small scale camps later in the summer are still possible depending on the region, local guidelines, and BSA policy. One of the things we really need more information about is whether the recent cases that have been reported in children are a rare anomaly or are the tip of an emerging syndrome.
  15. 1 point
    Most COR's won't do anything. Sadly, most units have people that won't deliver on their job. It is kinda a fact of life.
  16. 1 point
    Go to your COR/IH. Committee Chair at the Pack level is the position they appoint, and cubmaster is appointed by them, so you are unfortunately not on equal footing here to deal with it yourself. Not having valid YPT is not okay.
  17. 1 point
    I came from the 70's so I didn't see the effects of the changes. For me, the first obvious sign of the end was the creation of the New Scout Patrols. What appears small created a ripple effect that forced adults to become more intrusive in just about all the personal decisions scouts made in planning their activities. The intrusiveness was doubled down with the implementation of the First Class in First Year program. Equally, if not greater, to the negative program effects from the New Scout Patrols was the unforeseen effects of a degrading Patrol Method concept after National changed the adult membership to include female troop leaders. The program killer had nothing do with gender, but instead the issue was experience. Or more directly, lack of a youth scouting experience. The massive influx of inexperienced adults forced incomprehension into a program that at that time relied heavily on adult leaders with a youth scouting experience. Even National was shocked at the sudden trend away from a boy lead program. They attempted to bring some balance with all new training syllabuses in 2000, but evidence shows that nothing replaces experience for continuing the concept of giving youth independence for making bad decisions with the intention of developing good character? Barry
  18. 1 point
    Indeed, the ISP was the beginning of the end of scouting. There have been a few gallant attempts to turn the tide, but not enough save the movement. There are too many non-outdoors, risk-averse folks in the BSA who won't be satisfied until every scout, from 5 - 20 years of age, is wearing Tiger Cub Orange and making popsicle stick art, indoors, under the direction of two adults. And folks still wonder why membership is declining.
  19. 1 point
    Actually these developments are much, much further along than noted here. First of all, there is already an official organization in place that has replaced the LDS-BSA Relations Committee, now known as the Vanguard International Scouting Association - it was announced on February 8th of this year to coincide with the anniversary of Scouting. Its information can be found here: https://www.vanguardscouting.org/uncategorized/new-vanguard-international-scouting-association/ Secondly, there is a virtual conference from Philmont scheduled for next week (Friday and Saturday) during which they will announce the new religious awards for Scouts and Scouters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - among other things. They have a great schedule of trainings planned. I got an email for it a week ago. Here's the registration page: https://www.vanguardscouting.org/philmont-vision-2020-conference/little-philmont-virtual/ So there is a lot of good stuff coming down the line for us LDS Scouts and Scouters! I'll be sure to post all the new goodness as it comes. I'm certainly excited!
  20. 1 point
    The alleged Rule of 25 hasn't been around for awhile, if ever. As is often asked, "show where it is written". There are several Faith Awards that the BSA allows and to my knowledge, the named faith has few Charter Orgs, if any, listed in the BSA ranks. Deny Wiccan faith awards? Well, maybe not allow on the uniform officially. But again, where is the rule ?
  21. 1 point
    As the article says, "mostly stayed at home". Take aside the nursing home folks, the imprisoned folks, and what you have left are the rest of us- those who are making weekly trips to the grocery store or the hardware store. Again, the point of the stay-at-home was not that we wouldn't see a spread it was that we wouldn't see a massive swell that would overwhelm the health system. Now, we should be slowly taking steps to begin to resume some activities. Be smart, and not try and go 100 mph in a week.
  22. 1 point
    People would never lie to their doctors/health providers about their compliance with medical advice/the law! Would they? 😄
  23. 1 point
    Councils can follow the advice of state and local health officials and operate summer camps, as long as the insurance companies are in accord. For instance, some governors (Maryland, for example) have already declared that camping is again on the "allowed" list of things that are safe to do if precautions are taken (there might be youth camp-specific declarations as well). If state officials approve and if the insurance companies say they will cover the liability of summer camp operations, a council is then in the position to consider opening. Of course the council cannot operate a camp recklessly (without taking precautions, such as allowing infected persons to serve on staff). The previous positing makes clear that every child in Scouting risks injury (and even death) by being exposed to the hazards of life present in the Scouting setting. I note the recent suit against a council because a tree was blown over on top of a tent and tragically killed a Scout. I am guessing that over the long term, the risk to a child while camping with a Troop at a BSA facility is less than the risk while camping with a family in a public or commercial camping facility. The question will always be whether a Scouting activity should be disallowed because of the presence of unreasonable risk. The 100% example is a good one, because it shows that a person who insists on that standard will never be able to have their child participate in … anything. Any council or unit that represents to parents that a camp is 100% safe risks becoming a guarantor of any and all bad outcomes, even if the risk is reasonable. Councils should make reasonable decisions based on localized information and their ability to implement reasonable precautions.
  24. 1 point
    We just heard that Philmont after July 1 is a go. I also heard other high adventure are going too. While I get your worries about someone getting sick during, that is a risk we have to take any time. Yes, it is more serious now - with air travel to the location. The other risk we will have is that there could be a 14 day self quarantine upon return. Personally, I do not think that going ahead with this is the safest or sanest option. However, my son and I have decided to go ahead, knowing he will not get this chance again. Next summer is his last before college and knows he will want to be home and working all summer before departing. We are - at this time - betting that the risk to us and those we know will be low.
  25. 0 points
    I had a four-year gap in scouting, from the time I aged out in 81 till I signed on as an ASM and went to Scout Leader Basic Training (SLBT) in 85. Quite a difference in culture. It was obvious the BSA no longer valued the independent-minded, outdoor-oriented scouter. My training course turned into a 3-weekend grudge match between cadre and those with prior scouting experience. Cadre downplayed the outdoors, patrol method and unit scouting as a whole. The message was a) "We district and council scouters know best" and b) "Do your quaint troop stuff if you must, but real scouting happens at the district and council level." It didn't sit well with some of us. This mindset has been with us in one form or another ever since.
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