Leaderboard

@dkurtenbach, I concur with one small exception: despite the best efforts of some councils and districts, I think unit operations will be negatively impacted quite soon. This will largely be due to the factors you mentioned: declining numbers, increasing fees, and negative publicity. "The bankruptcy is certainly a big problem, but membership decline is BSA's real crisis and BSA isn't going to do anything about it -- either because they are too preoccupied with the bankruptcy or (as I think) because they gave up on it long ago." That statement is absolutely spot on! Indeed, the

"This is a great example of proactive, pre-crisis thinking. And it’s also a lesson in internal communications; that is, sharing accurate information in a timely fashion with “front line” representatives of an organization. This is a textbook case of using proactive messaging to distinguish your brand from “co-petitors” in the news." ... "Girl Scouts is proud of its more than 100 years of dedicated and expert service to girls—and girls only—in an environment that is girl-led, girl-focused, supportive of girls’ positive development, and, above all, safe." https://www.agilitypr.com

I am myself disappointed that there is no statement, no video of a "fireside chat", or anything from the leadership group. These horrific things happened, and without taking blame, there most definitely should be an acknowledgement that there are victims out there and that the organization shares a heartfelt regret that any child has been taken advantage of- in or out of Scouting. Rebuilding the image starts now- we can't wait for the end of a court case for it.

@Cburkhardt - I fully respect what you're asking here. I want to keep the thread positive, but I'd be remiss if I didn't state my concern. Pardon in advance. Fundamentally, I'm worried that we have attached ourselves to an organizational model in Scouting that is not correct for the challenges of today. I'm worried that in a effort to re-organize after bankruptcy we rush to deploy a model that has not proven successful over the past 40 years. My concerns can be summed up in: The DE to Scout ratio is wrong. We have a ratio of about 1 DE to 1,000 Scouts/50 units. If a DE costs ab

We had a professional marketing rep on staff, but fired her about 2 months ago. I guess it makes sense. If we're not going to advertise or talk to the media, what do we need to pay a PR person for?

Some earlier MIchigan Crossroads topics

Regarding your final statement ... let me reassure you as calmly as possible: First Class First Year is a lie. Tell your crossovers and their parents the truth: it is hard to obtain First Class rank. The skills therein are difficult to master. Furthermore, for those crossovers and parents with Eagle in their sights, I remind them that I have not seen a difference in who earns Eagle based on how soon they earn 1st class. A large proportion of 12 y.o. 1st class scouts either quit or take 6 years to get to Life rank. A scout who finally earns 1st class at age 16.5 has accumulat

I agree. This exercise is interesting but it is more academic than practical. Reality, post filing, is probably going to be something we can't much envision or have much influence over. Council mergers are not going to be happening while the bankruptcy case is proceeding in all likelihood. I think it's good to try to frame out possible desired scenarios, but the reality is we are facing a new world order and we'll probably have to adapt as we go.

This was mentioned in the article; however, that means Council assets (buildings, camps, investments) could be included. "Garabedian said individual councils could petition the bankruptcy judge to join BSA’s filing with a “channeling injunction” and their assets would be subject to being collateralized to pay into BSA’s victims’ compensation trust. " Note that courts have not been consistent on agreeing on which assets are unencumbered (just look at the Milwaukee Archdiocese cemetery fund case. My only point is that before we start suggesting mergers between councils, we need to

It's been my impression that council mergers are major muscle movements. At this point, can mergers take place that are worth the time, money, and energy expended? Especially when liquidation is nigh.

Walk in Woods: Those further out districts might be better in other councils. There is no particular reason why the combining councils need to come-in as-is.

My understanding is that Councils can sign on to be part of the National bankruptcy filing and thus obtain some degree of protection however then any unencumbered assets could be at risk. My understanding is that many did so.

@HashTagScouts and @carebear3895 … I didn't even think of the increased nation fees on councils that will be coming, but you are right. There was a lawyer asking how the BSA plans to pay their massive legal fees given the income was relatively low. But I was thinking the state lawsuits that will be placed. This article below is simply one example. Both National BSA & council were sued in state court. National BSA was asked to be pulled from the lawsuit given the bankruptcy filing … but the lawsuit will continue against the council. https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/202002

I just snagged this guy on eBay. The deer is more tan that it appears in the pic. The description said it belonged to an SE in Lebanon County Council and that his wife sewed it on but unknown if it represented a lodge or just the family.

I think the question is … will it be better to see each Council go bankrupt as they are structured now, or wait for them to merge, sell of property and go bankrupt? Illinois is a perfect example. Nearly every day, when listening to Chicago radio, I hear ads to file lawsuits given Illinois change to the statue of limitations they passed in 2019. They specifically mention scouts, hospitals, schools, etc. If the northern councils in Illinois are strong financially, they will be a target. So, will it be better for these 3 to merge, combine all the lawsuits against them, and go bankrupt

What was interesting, is that we never placed a value on those paintings in our filings … just listed that we have them. I would be in favor of selling them if it helps protect some camps from sales. What I found interesting, is that for the first time I have read, an attorney representing victims said something could be protected. He likened it a bit to not touching "cherished religious relics". In terms of scouting, my "cherished religious relic" would be my summer camp I went to as a youth .. or perhaps Philmont … not a painting. Perhaps those outside the organization don't under

Maybe this should not be used as an example, during the bankruptcy proceedings, to demonstrate how councils are separate and independent entities.

From what I could find just looking up this type of project on google, calling things like this a "pile" isn't really doing it justice. What you are effectively doing is deliberately creating all at once the kind of habitat that would be created over years in the woods. Ideally, these aren't made by just haphazardly piling up logs and pouring dirt on top to fill in the gaps. Instead, the scout will need to "craft" a habitat with a combination of hollows and gaps in some spaces, loose leafy dirt filling others, and plenty of air moving through the whole thing. The enclosure keeps thi

Yes, I saw the commercial last night for the second time. It is well done and to the point. Historically, there was a time when BSA was a favorite image for ad copy and also appeared favorably in most local news. We cannot overcome the bad image by ourselves, other than on our very local level. And even then, we run into issues on occasion. Our biggest resource is our ongoing service, not just Eagle projects, but numerous other activities. We have a number of serious outdoor oriented units that do regular trail work and have put up markers in remote areas and after our fires, cleaned up

The BSA, for all of it's marketing and development folks, is absolutely the worst at any type of marketing. Basically it is non-existent. This is at both the National and Local levels. For them to be able to get out in front of something, they need to have a grasp of what that something may in fact be and UNDERSTAND why they need to get in front of said something. They need to be able to TELL the positive story, but they may not understand why the story needs to be told. Yes Scouting is local, but it's like any franchised business. The National office generates the buzz to drive cons

The shape of any merger or other reorganization will depend in large part on the shape of the eventual bankruptcy settlement: Will sexual abuse victims agree to a comprehensive resolution process that brings in all claims against councils, chartered organizations, and other Scouting-related entities in addition to claims against BSA National? To get there will require substantial financial contributions from councils. If they can't get there, BSA National's bankruptcy may be resolved (eventually), but victims will be in litigation with councils and other entities for years to come, with num

My son was in a troop that believed that patrols were formed at the time of crossover, and the membership in the patrol only changed if a new kid joined that wasn't previously in cubs, or came from another troop. So, all your first year kids were a patrol, and they stayed in that patrol until they aged out, or left Scouting. Patrols were also never merged... so, if after 4 years, only 3 of the original 9 were left, then they were just a patrol of three. The SM also kept them all together, so in your example if 16 kids crossed over, they became a patrol of 16. The problems in the philosophy

Eagle 1993: The Michigan Crossroads and Pathway combinations were the big mergers in the Central region over the past 10 years. Both resulted in similar outcomes, but the implementation was different. Both mergers involved wholesale merging of separate councils into one larger council, but largely preserving the borders of the previous councils and districts for purposes of field services. Pathway preserved all four predecessor council service centers and each has a commissioner staff, field service director, etc. Michigan Crossroads has “field” service councils” that largely reflect

I strongly agree with @ParkMan's concerns. For me, what is troubling about councils is that they spend the majority of their time, effort, and money in activities and services that units don't need (and often don't even know about) or would get anyway without all the fuss. Now, there are a few services that, in my view, some BSA office or BSA professional must be responsible for, even if much of the work is done by volunteers: administration of registration, chartering, and other "official record" matters dissemination, implementation, and enforcement of BSA policies specia

How does the Michigan Crossroads council work? It looks like an interesting structure 1 mega council, smaller service centers & multiple districts per service center. Does that result in a good balance between optimizing finances while still preventing the downsides of mega councils? What is the role of the service center vs council?

Eagle1993 is pointing out that if the settlement is at the low end, National is going to be faced with liquidating every asset they posses (and that is what the lawyers are seeking to do). Costs will be trimmed, but how long can they survive with no $ on hand? Sure, staff will likely be reduced for the short term, but if what we want to see is membership grow, eventually you have to add staff again, and pay them. More revenue will eventually be needed, especially if you are potentially cutting off income source from Philmont, Sea Base, etc. So, either they will eventually have to increase m

I think it is entirely possible that the bankruptcy proceedings will take more than a year. I doubt that the 80 days the BSA has requested for victims to come forward will be granted. As long as we are waiting for lawsuits to be filed, there is the chance that they will go after councils. Merging councils puts assets at risk. I am not saying we shouldn't do it but I think we have to be careful about the timing.

BSA doesn't advertise. It doesn't ever get in front of a news story, or correct mistaken information. It's frustrating. We had a local marketing firm who donated time and created a series of recruiting commercials, filming real Scouts doing real Scouting, and our executives bumbled around until the firm said enough and walked away.

Just a friendly reminder, Council Properties are always the first thing to go when mergers happen....