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However strong our current youth protection program is, we still have three weak links: the overwhelming predominance of volunteers operating in highly autonomous units, who are certified to work closely with youth of all ages after taking a two hour internet course. To provide assurances to parents that Scouting is no longer the horror story they have been hearing about, and that it is as safe as their neighborhood schools, one or more of those weak links may have to be replaced.

Concerns on fee increase: families are going to have a tough time with increases to annual membership fees, though it seems likely it will go up. I am more concerned that National is going to think they can raise the Chartering fee, and assume that that fee is paid by the CO each year (for us, nope- it is coming from our bank account, and I see that as the norm in our area). Assets: I would argue that as lovely and wonderful as Philmont, Sea Base, Summit are, they are not essential for program delivery. We made do without them, and sooo few Scouts ever actually visit them. The problem

Not very scientific on my part, but I just scrolled through 150+ comments regarding this story on the Wall Street Journal website. In summary, many commenters that support (or used to support) scouting feel bankruptcy is the death knell of the BSA. Not a single comment about about sunny skies and clearer sailing in the future. Even pro-scouting commenters stated in so many words that the BSA was a moribund organization previous to the Chapter 11 announcement. No doubt recruiting, fundraising, and public support will be difficult in the future. Unit level volunteers will carry the

The optics are going to be the hard part. The group that BSA needs to sell (and continue to sell) is the new families that traditionally join as Cubs. Those of us in units that are functioning, this is sort of a non-event How do we (BSA as a whole) bring in new Scouts (Cubs / Scouts BSA / Etc) when the families not invested in the BSA see the Bankruptcy of the Boy Scouts and the driving reason for Chapter 11 is sex abuse cases. That is going to be a hard sell....just saying

My suspicion is that they thought about it from a fairness perspective. Do we want abuse victims to have the ability to seek restitution in perpetuity? It is certainly the compassionate case to say yes. Similarly, I believe the BSA leadership looked at it similarly. "Are we compassionate people? Yes - so let's support victims claims forever." So, we have a whole lot of compassionate people wanting to be support victims without recognizing the policy impact of that - money is finite, abusers are long gone, and the people paying the bill are kids. Do you see another solut

National employees did a lot of flying.

I'm curious as to the relative value of the 4 HA bases. Northern Tier is a medium sized outpost. Not a lot of real estate. BSA does not own the Boundary Waters. (Sorry lawyers.) I can guess that Seabase would have about the same value as Northern Tier, for the same reasons. Bechtel, because of the mortgage , may be a negative. Especially since BSA paid more than the land was actually worth. But Philmont... That is acreage. Who wouldn't want to retire to the 'Tooth of Time' retirement community, where age really bites?

The decision by National is most definitely intended to throw themselves on the sword here, and be a shield to keep councils and COs as protected as possible. Are their councils already involved in legal action? Undoubtedly. I know a lot of people are upset today that the BSA has tarnished the image and the youth with this decision- simply because they see it as a cop out to staying the course as an organization, that though flawed, was viewed as a moral organization fighting to instill moral character into the youth we serve and is now hiding in the court to avoid paying victims.

I appreciate it, thank you. I'm actually pretty candid like this out in the field too. I find being open with Volunteers and being able to poke fun at myself as a Professional is a great way to build relationships. Like you, I hate the "need to know" culture in the BSA

PROMOTION!!!!

@carebear3895 This needs to be said: LOCAL COUNCILS ARE LEGALLY AND FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THE NATIONAL COUNCIL. The Chapter 11 financial restructuring will not affect your local scouting experience. A little disingenuous . While "separate" there is a cause and effect here. Let's see what the restructuring looks like and how much affect on council ops there is. Guilt by association will effect councils membership and fundraising as in the long term properties going to seed. A number of National Scout shops will likely close. Any hint of

Way Way back in the day we bought them for Fraternity fundraising. We had to buy like 200 dozen, and we paid $1 per dozen and sold them for $2 per dozen. Not sure we ever sold the entire 200 but we did sell about 175 or so, thus turning a pretty good profit Also if you leave the remainder in the chapter room for a couple of days they get hard and you can have an epic donut war....

or you know.....the sexual abuse cases. Which is literally in the bankruptcy filing document.

No amount of money, nor tombs of protective rules can keep a few of the deviants from their goals. All we can do is use the tools on hand and find better ways to strengthen them. Meanwhile, maybe we can create a miracle and bring common sense and societal responsibility back; but do not hold your breath. One thing that would help, but because we live in a greedy, egocentric society, likely will not, is to fix the legal system to be fair but not destructive.

Our council has one too. @carebear3895 is 100% correct - we have it to make ends meet. Our council does not have fancy buildings or nice office chairs. It's a pretty frugal non-profit. We can certainly have a discussion about whether to pay the salaries of professionals - but that's about the level it's at for us.

Except that it's not. A program fee is strictly a council fee, none of that goes to the National Council. Program fee's usually come when FOS starts to dry up. Got to keep the lights on somehow. Please, stop pushing hysteria and false information. A Scout is trustworthy, sir.

Here’s my question Can the National Council earn Journey to Excellence Gold while its in chapter 11? 🤪😜🤣😂😳😱🤦‍♂️

Greetings: I'm a '06 Eagle and have been involved with a great troop in Chicago for the past 1.5 years now as a committee member. At first I was brought on as a database-management guy who would just keep track of all our electronic recording mechanisms (TroopTrack, uploading advancement to Internet Advancement, etc.) Now I've found myself as the Advancement Chair for what our chair has termed one of our big committees: Finance and Advancement. It's challenging because of the size of our troop, but I'm getting there. Because devoted Scouters can be found here, I am confident I'll fin

well, the ScoutingU staff flies all over the country for advance Pro training and at least once a month to the Summit for Pro Basic training (which is a horrible, horrible waste of money and resources). It would suck to try and have a family (or even a personal life) if you work for ScoutingU. All 4 regions have their staffs based in Dallas, so they leave periodically to be in their regions and visit councils. I think Area Directors are based in Dallas too, but to be honest with you, I have no idea what they do.

There is so much to unpack here it is hard to keep up. Council liability question: The prevailing view seems to think Councils that do not have abuse cases are likely "safe" from litigation. However, many of these cases happened years ago, and so many councils have been merged or moved around, how does anyone know what the liability trail is and if you are "safe"? Frozen payments: If Chapter 11 puts a lid on court cases and insurance pay outs for abuse cases, what happens to run of the mill claims for things like injuries, negligence, etc.? Our insurers seem rather cranky. I

Do we know if insurance covers the past victims? From Wikipedia: The annual report states that the BSA may have "to pay damages out of its own funds to the extent the claims are not covered by insurance or if the insurance carriers are unable or unwilling to honor the claims. Accordingly, the BSA hired a law firm in December 2018 to investigate filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy. Such a bankruptcy could stop litigation of at least 140 lawsuits and prevent further lawsuits. In October 2019, a substantial membership rate increase was announced related to increased operational expe

That is the key question. Whether they should or not, I think many families in the near future are going to say good bye to the BSA and find something else to do. Many believe the fees are already too high in relation to the perceived value, and they either can't or won't tolerate more increases.

Not out of the realm of possibility. The professional training center already moved there. The only thing that would prevent that is the lack of a major airport close by. National employees do a lot of flying.

Joe Bob, I think Philmont would be toughest to lose, and the very property the legal and banking folks will go after first. About 214 square miles of prime wilderness. I just don't see any creditor, attorney or judge excepting it from the long, expensive legal battle ahead. As for Summit, I'm on board with the suggestion someone (sorry I forgot who) made earlier: National should have to relocate all of their headquarters and personnel to the Summit. Sell everything in Irving TX, pack the UHaul, and start driving NE. If Summit is indeed as special as advertised, it should be a positi

This from the Washington Post today: A key question will be whether the Boy Scouts of America will be able to protect the assets of the local councils, which own camps and properties in prime real estate throughout the country. The local councils are incorporated separately but hold 70 percent of the Boy Scouts’ wealth, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis. Pfau and other lawyers bringing abuse lawsuits against the Boy Scouts said they were skeptical the organization would be able to shield the local councils. “That is wishful thinking, because in every Boy S

I read somewhere that councils and chartered organizations have already been sued along with BSA National, which the claimants would want to do whenever possible. It appears that part of National's plan is to have one bucket of money available for all claims against all BSA organizational defendants. Of course, the attorneys for the claimants will want that bucket to be as large as possible, so I expect that they will push for contributions from councils.

Ahhh, a scouty question There are quite comfortable backpacking pads. Get an insulated one. That and a down quilt and you should be quite comfortable with little weight. And, when you finally get your troop backpacking, you'll have the right gear.

Except money is fungible. Implement a program fee to replace FOS. This then allows money from other sources that might have been spent on program for councils to invest in the BSA's victims fund.

First - rarely hear Summit / Lovely / Wonderful all in the same sentence...😀 That may be the one that BSA can kick to the curb and there will be little angst among the minions. You pour $750,000,000 into a BSA National Vanity project, you sort of reap what you sow. You lose Philmont, you've lost the legacy of 80 + years of multi-generational High Adventure. That would be a gut punch to the organization

Well...you want to be comfy during the long lunches with the attorneys. You cannot put a price on that

John, no doubt they are a JTE Gold team! A special commemorative patch should be made for this occasion!

I hope this isn't the case. I don't believe a council, say in Indiana, should be forced to sell some of it's assets to pay the victim of an abuse case that occurred in California.

Great day. I am more hopeful now that real reform can happen.

Lets use the official BSA announcement, rather than one tied to news sensationalism and skewing. https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/the-boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-to-equitably-compensate-victims-while-ensuring-scouting-continues-across-the-country/Insert other media

Sad day indeed. I participated in 4 BOR’s last night for 4 Scouts. The program and the scouts are what I am going to try to focus on during this time.

Then you are very, very lucky and have done a very good job managing all of the food and utensils to prevent cross contamination. Having lots of experience on both the Pack and Troop level dealing with several food allergies (peanut/tree nut, gluten, dairy) I've seen more often than not it leads to very picky eaters. In my son's case (peanut/tree nut), the Troop we're in now has been exceptionally helpful, and was one of the reasons we chose it. In the Troop, he's been integral to menu planning on the campouts he's participated in and that's been a huge help. It also helps that there's

Welcome to the virtual campfire!

We tell the scouts their book is the record. When they tell us it's in the computer we tell them to ask one of the many adults that have access to the database to help the scout update their book. It doesn't take more than a few minutes. Often, someone in the BOR can do it right there.

A good UC/unit relationship requires openness on both sides. I wasn’t a UC, but I helped a few with my more specific expertises. Every SM has a different personality as well as an idealistic perspective of working towards their vision. I remember when our UC advised me not to go from 1 month PLC meetings to weekly PLC meetings. He didn’t have a good reason other than he had never seen it before. I didn’t take his advise. I was asked to help a new SM work toward a more patrol method program. One of my suggestions was let the scouts run the PLC meetings. He couldn’t believe scouts unde

Hi @Beccachap, Welcome! I know I've already replied to a topic of yours, but was going back through posts from the weekend and saw your intro. I love the honesty in your intro!!!! Welcome I welcome your perspective on Scouting. I've always believe that we need to set high expectations in Scouting and it sounds like you're doing exactly that. Thank you for what you're doing and thank you for challenging those you Scout with.

@yknot's, @desertrat77's, and @MattR's comments hit upon a common theme. This theme permeates about 50% of the posts on this forum. Today, the organization that is the BSA - whether through volunteers or professionals is one that is largely focused on operations, rules, and safety. We spend so much time and effort on how. We have structures in place that when they work are great - G2SS, commissioners, professionals, Districts & Councils, Wood Badge, etc. But, when they are done poorly probably end up doing more harm than good. Bans on water guns, the wheelbarrow rule, bad commiss

Prayer is not banned in schools, prayers led by the government, i.e. the school and its employees, are banned. To add a little historical perspective, OUR PRAYERS, that is Catholic prayers, were always banned. No child was allowed to say the Pater Noster or Ave Maria. Catholic children attending public schools were made to pray in a way that was inconsistent with the teachings of their own faith. The rise of Catholic parochial schools in the US was largely driven by a fear that attendance at public schools with their compulsory Protestant religious indoctrination would lead to a weaken

I never even entered that argument, Barry, let alone came close to anything you're saying I said.

@Eagledad Let's for a minute take your belief as fact that in order to have morals you must believe in god, since all morals are derived from god. How do you reconcile when 2 opposing religions have differing moral beliefs? Religion 1 says abortion is a sin, Religion 2 allows it. Religion 3 says homosexuality is a sin, Religion 4 allows it. Religion 5 says eating shellfish is a sin...or premarital sex is a sin...or being in a room alone with a member of the opposite sex...or allowing a non-relative to see your hair... But it doesn't matter, for you right? As long as th

Physics?

You might want to let Google know, since it's the first listing when you type "Reverent". I don't think we get to define the points of the Law for other people though.

Disagree. I don't need to believe in a god to be respectful to others.

I was talking with a scout family whose son recently completed his Eagle Scout Project. He raised the money for his materials by organizing a "Parents Night Out" where parents could drop off their kids and go out for the evening and the scouts baby sat. Apparently it was very successful. Thought is was a great idea to pass along. Could be a good way to promote your unit, as well!

Found this form of release on Pace University's website for a similar event: In consideration of the above named student being permitted to participate in the Pace XXXXX Kids Night Out Program, the undersigned does hereby agree to assume all the risks and responsibilities surrounding such participation or any activities undertaken as an adjunct thereto; and further, for myself, my heirs and personal representatives, I hereby agree to defend, hold harmless, indemnify and release forever, and forever discharge Pace and all its officers, agents and employees from and against any and all cla

One thing that my Council did that I thought was helpful was we had an intro to WB class at our University of Scouting this past January. The CD presented it, offered a good overview of what was going to happen, told some personal stories of his WB experiences and offered some insights then opened it up for questions. In the class were a couple of folks who had been through WB before but hadn't completed their tickets and were back to finish it up. They asked a few questions and then others felt comfortable enough to ask more. We ended up with a full course (yea Buffalos and Antelopes!) an