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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/03/20 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    Being reverant does not pertain to a specific religion even if you are part of the majority. That must be nice. Scouting recognizes and respects believe in the religion of your choice which is bigger than a single religion. It is not arrogance, scouting does not pick which religion to follow and welcomes all. A religion is more powerful to those that follow it, I don't know or care what religion you are. I guarantee that people from another religion would disagree with your beliefs as the one true force. Today I attended the service at our Charter Org to show them respect and the sermon went on to call out how Jews in not a great light. Being Jewish, I stayed silent during the service but several other leaders came up to me afterwards to apologize for something they had nothing to do with. Just because someone is ordained, doesn't mean they understand that we are an interfaith program, including leaders like me that are not the same religion. I dedicate my many hours a week to the youth in the program not the charter org or their beliefs.
  2. 2 points
    Those dang pros on the All- Volunteer Camping Committees!
  3. 2 points
    I have to agree with @David CO here. I'm giving these Scouting for Equality folks the benefit of the doubt and hoping that they simply chose some ridiculous wording. The rest of the paragraph is fine and makes sense. One could easily argue the Scouting and it's principles are broader than any one religion. But saying that Scouting is a force more powerful than any one religion is simply a ridiculous statement. Scouting has a profound impact on many, many people. Similarly, to many, the impact of Scouting on their individual lives is probably bigger than their faith - of that I have no doubt. But, if one looks at the impact of religion on the world and of Scouting on the world, clearly religion has a bigger, more powerful impact. I say this to in no way negatively characterize Scouting - Scouting is an amazing program. But, this is an absurd comparison.
  4. 2 points
    Well, we'll just have to disagree here I guess. I don't consider my religion, or yours (I don't even know what yours is, but it doesn't matter) to be more powerful than a youth development movement that teaches skills, values, and citizenship. My religion is not my god. It is just one possible expression of my reverence for my god. I have a hard time even comprehending how that statement could be either arrogant or offensive. I could write an entire essay on how I have seen people fall into idolatry of religion or religious symbols; but it would drag us too far off the topic at hand, so I won't.
  5. 2 points
    I agree. And actually I go so far as to teach my own children to respect everyone - adults, peers, younger children, and even animals. Obedience comes into play when there is a superior. If your boss tells you to clean the bathroom even though your "job" is, let's say, a cashier and not a janitor, you should probably obey; the bathroom isn't going to clean itself just because the janitor called in sick. If an EMT shows up in a first aid situation and tells you to step back and let them take over, or "Hold this for me" or whatever, you obey because the EMT is the expert in the field and you may know something but you're not an EMT. Some random person off the street, however, would need to identify himself or herself as an authority before obedience should be conferred: "Step back, I'm a paramedic" or "Step back, I'm a cardiologist," or "Step back, I'm a midwife" - depending on the scenario. If the authority fits the case, obedience applies. If "Step back, I'm an auto mechanic" comes along, obey if you're trying to get a car started, but not necessarily if you're trying to stabilize a broken neck and you have Wilderness First Aid training but the Auto Mechanic clearly doesn't. That's the time for assertiveness and leadership skills, NOT obedience; I don't care how much older the Auto Mechanic is. Teaching our youth to know the difference is a very key element of their upbringing and Scouting offers a great opportunity for this. I once worked alongside another Troop committee member who described herself as "Obedient to a fault." She'd say things like "Council office said we can't do that" or whatever and I'd ask, "So, did you tell them this" or "Did you ask them that?" and she would always say no and generally I'd give them a call and politely talk the situation over and usually get a different answer. I remember her talking to me about how much anxiety she had about anything that could be perceived as second-guessing a peer, let alone an authority, and it always kind of stuck with me as something I wanted to make sure my kids would not grow up to be burdened with. While appropriate obedience is indeed a good skill, if we over-teach our children obedience, then we risk them growing into over-obedient adults who struggle with decision-making.
  6. 2 points
    The crimes are NOT alleged. The abuser has admitted to it, apologized, and been convicted (although undoubtedly too leniently). All that's being disputed and as-yet unproven is the level of involvement by upper echelon BSA and Mormon Church leaders. The fact the perp got such a light sentence to begin with and that the court case subsequently disappeared is more than coincidence and indicates someone with power had a hand in the case.
  7. 1 point
    Its not like the current oath and law hasn't changed from their original wordings though.
  8. 1 point
    I think overmuch is made of religion in scouting. It certainly wasn't as big a deal in the original scouting books and was more along the lines of do your duty to God as you reflect on nature, do a good deed daily, etc. I am of the opinion that atheists who aspire to be of good moral character, evidenced by joining organizations like scouting, without any real belief in the final judgments of a higher being, are probably actually purer of heart than the rest of us lol.
  9. 1 point
    Quite right. As my son's troop inches towards 100 scouts, fundraisers that net $10K don't stretch all that far. It will only help defray costs of $100 per scout. $10K might sound like a lot of cash, but when you have an active troop that sends scouts to summer camp every year, offers a couple of different high adventure treks, and has a very active troop program with monthly campouts, scholarships for things like NYLT training, etc. .... well, we might need something like this project in addition to our other troop fundraisters and in addition to participating in popcorn sales or other types of council-sponsored fundraisers.
  10. 1 point
    It is specific enough. For a hundred years, scouts have understood its meaning. It is only recently that people have labored to distort its meaning. When people are determined to distort the clear meaning of words, no words can be sufficient to convey the meaning of the scout law.
  11. 1 point
    Perhaps better the wax than the pound package of saltwater taffy that got one of our Scouts introduced to a black & white around 2AM. 😵
  12. 1 point
    Respectfully, I wasn't. I was thinking specifically of just about any single individual religion in making that statement. It isn't even remotely close whether the Catholic Church or Scouting has a bigger impact on the world. If I run down the list of major religions - Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc... Whole cultures are built around these faiths. People's lives, belief systems. I love Scouting, but it's just a whole different kind of thing altogether. I do agree with your last statement. I think they were really trying to make a different point. Scouting has principles that apply to more than just one faith. That much is certainly true. This is where the Scouting for Equality people have to be very deliberate. What they seek is a end of membership requirements that require a belief in a higher power. Picking fights with religious people is not the way to go about it. They most certainly should not turn their movement into one which advocates for a removal of faith from Scouting. Scouting is an organization that promotes values. If one community believes that good values can be taught without faith, then let them start a unit that does that. But, do not in any way prevent the religious institution down the street from having a unit that believes in a faith component. Further, when at a multi-unit event, allow for the fact that many units will look for things like saying grace before meals or a Sunday worship service. America's the great melting pot - let's celebrate that.
  13. 1 point
    I think this make a great point that seems to be lost: Scouting will make you a better person, not a saint. Sure, we aim for sainthood but we wouldn't need all the g2ss and ypt rules if we realized those goals. Not even eagle confers anything absolute. We claim greatness but when we can't deliver, whether it be a scout that ends up in the legal system or a sexual abuse case, I can see parents that know nothing of scouting asking themselves why they should put their kids in this program.
  14. 1 point
    Ah the old belief that only those who believe in a god can have values. Pray tell, which values are exclusive to theists? And among theists is there universal agreement about these values? That was rhetorical; the answers are None and No.
  15. 1 point
    I pulled out the Handbook on my shelf (12th edition). It had this definition of Obedient: Later, there was a quote on a Scout being Chivalrous. It had this passage which was a quote from the 1914 handbook: There are other quotes around obey that I could find - mostly having to do with either obeying the Scout Oath & Law or obeying laws. My take away is that even our printed materials don't make the case that a Scout should obey all adults. He should respect those who are "superior" - but that's as far as it goes. If an adult comes along and tells the Scout to do something different on first aid, the Scout needs to show that he/she respectfully considered it, but made a different decision. This is the lesson I think we teach - we need to respect adults - but not necessarily obey them.
  16. -1 points
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