Leaderboard

Ah the old belief that only those who believe in a god can have values. Pray tell, which values are exclusive to theists? And among theists is there universal agreement about these values? That was rhetorical; the answers are None and No.

I had some interesting conversations with my older (13-14 year old) scouts on Thursday night. With an expedition style hiking camp coming up in the spring I ran a session for the PLs and APLs about dealing with emergencies and how to take control of things if something goes wrong. We did a few role plays where I invited them in turn to be the one in charge in various scenarios including first aid, being lost, dealing with busy roads etc. As we went through I gave them some coaching on body language, tone of voice, keeping instructions simple, all that sort of thing. Generally how to come acros

This is an excerpt from the Scouts for Equality webpage, describing their position on reverence. I feel it is well reasoned and well argued.

I agree. And actually I go so far as to teach my own children to respect everyone - adults, peers, younger children, and even animals. Obedience comes into play when there is a superior. If your boss tells you to clean the bathroom even though your "job" is, let's say, a cashier and not a janitor, you should probably obey; the bathroom isn't going to clean itself just because the janitor called in sick. If an EMT shows up in a first aid situation and tells you to step back and let them take over, or "Hold this for me" or whatever, you obey because the EMT is the expert in the field and you may

You might want to let Google know, since it's the first listing when you type "Reverent". I don't think we get to define the points of the Law for other people though.

Poor definition.

Disagree. I don't need to believe in a god to be respectful to others.

I think this make a great point that seems to be lost: Scouting will make you a better person, not a saint. Sure, we aim for sainthood but we wouldn't need all the g2ss and ypt rules if we realized those goals. Not even eagle confers anything absolute. We claim greatness but when we can't deliver, whether it be a scout that ends up in the legal system or a sexual abuse case, I can see parents that know nothing of scouting asking themselves why they should put their kids in this program.

Barry; Not quite getting the comment on the three points of Law and requiring. Certainly it is much more difficult to do your best to adhere to those points if you refuse to be inclusive, but again it becomes semantics. Inclusive to me is as simple as allowing something to be in the sphere; but it does not include requiring anyone to accept those life styles or beliefs as their own. It is harder of course to be civil if something grates on your deepest beliefs. Then you decide that you politely disengage as most as you are able without conflict, if possible. That narrow ledge of overlapp

At some point unbelief will push its way into taking god out of the program completely and debating values into nonexistence. Freedom of speech also means owning a stand on values and principles. I’ve always been amazed at the hypocrisy of friendly, courteous, and kind requiring one to be inclusive. Barry

Same. I have known a few people engaging and getting convicted for criminal behavior who have been Boy Scouts. My ex husband was a Boy Scout and has been in the local jail at least twice not including his stint in a federal penitentiary (there's a reason he's my ex). Some of these boys even in units I've been directly involved in (peers of my older kids). Even an Eagle Scout. But OVERALL I think it has a positive influence. The kid I'm thinking of specifically probably would have gotten in a lot more trouble than a DUI and minor in possession if it weren't for the positive impact of Sco

Yes, but responsibility for youth safety ultimately rests with the adults. I presume that you're saying that since adults are there to help guide the youth leaders, the way we should respect the YPT guidelines is by educating the SPL and delegate implementation decisions to him.

I pulled out the Handbook on my shelf (12th edition). It had this definition of Obedient: Later, there was a quote on a Scout being Chivalrous. It had this passage which was a quote from the 1914 handbook: There are other quotes around obey that I could find - mostly having to do with either obeying the Scout Oath & Law or obeying laws. My take away is that even our printed materials don't make the case that a Scout should obey all adults. He should respect those who are "superior" - but that's as far as it goes. If an adult comes along and tells the Scout to do so

That was a natural response. Scouts (and all youth) learn very quick to give deference to adults. I can't speak for your troop, but most scout programs emphasize the difference. I'm betting each and every scout can tell multiple stories of where an adult used his position (or age) to put a scout in his place. I know that "adult interaction" is a method in scouts, but I really think we need to be more careful of when and how that occurs. In fact, we need to interact in such a way that the program grows the backbone of the scouts to stand up for what is right. I remember our first sc

We all know now that this demeanor -- while essential for elementary education, religious sensibility, functioning families, and long term personal growth -- has boundaries and will backfire in certain contexts. Specifically when an abuser takes advantage of a culture's willingness to think "an occasional mishap is a small price to pay", the youth in his/her sights no longer becomes a charge and becomes a victim. Some in the medical field (especially here in the US where healthcare is under strain) describe a situation called "moral injury" where pressures are put upon a doctor or nurse

Strongly disagree, I've raised my kids to do what they're told if it's a good thing, the right thing, and the smart thing. Neither rules nor authority are self justifying, they're means to accomplish ends, and if they're not accomplishing those ends they're due no great deference.

It's not your scouts, it's not the UK, and it's not just kids. Humans are social animals, much of our behavior is determined by the dynamics and perceived structures of the group we're in at the time --- how we see ourselves in it, how we see others and their status or position in the group, and how those others see themselves and us. Kids generally are in groups where there is a defined or assumed authority based on age, and they behave accordingly. In groups where the norm is to have some hierarchical structure it is more challenging than in a pure peer group to speak up and try to o

I had one of those clown/know it all Scouts in an Indian Lore MB class. I didn't intentionally mean to shut him down, it just happened. We were discussing games, and the topic was lacrosse. He asked which is the more dangerous: lacrosse or rugby. At first I told him, "I don't know." and the smirk on his face appeared. Then thinking about it I said, " While the joke with rugby players is 'give blood, play rugby," there are still rules and no consequences for losing. Whereas for some First Nations, lacrosse is called "the little brother of war." There were little to no rules, violence, injures a

Old to take and follow YPT training, but not old enough to supervise youth or count as a second adult. Craziness. That had to be a lawyers decision for liability purposes. I've noticed the same with my Scouts. They are often unwilling to make decisions that are well within their positions to make without clearing it past adults. I'm not sure if it's a lack of confidence, a fear of being overruled, or wanting validation. Being obedient to the proper authority is typically a good thing, but there are times when authority should be challenged, questioned or corrected, and I want my Scouts to

I've been in that situation once as a youth, and I was completely ignored by the adults in charge. Thankfully it was not anything as major as a potential spinal injury.I did what I was told, sit down and be quiet. I was 12 years old when that happened. Yes it was hard to talk to the teachers and parents on that field trip. Thankfully someone with training eventually took charge. It did get easier as I got older, but that had to do with training and experience. At 16 and a certified lifeguard with CPR and first aid certifications needed for the job, I was able to take charge of a situation

To everyone on scouter.com, Now that girls are already in the cub program and they are about to enter the scout program it's time to welcome them. That's a nice way of saying stop complaining about girls in the BSA. Every thread that is about girls entering troops has gone off the rails. There have been complaints about how the decision was made, the negative impact on boys, what's wrong with the BSA, and just a lot of anger. I understand that people want to complain in general but we can't have complaints about the decision to include girls any more. The reason is simple. No scout should