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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/17/19 in all areas

  1. 7 points
    A lot lot lot of focus on Cubs. Looking on my council website; picture of a Cub, Lots of Cub Training, Lot of Spook-o-ree stuff. When they put in Tiger Cubs in 82, a good number of us thought that was a bit much. As many have noted, Cubs is less a fun program and more of a slog. We have had many boys over the years that bailed on Cubs / Webelos but came into Scouts. They were just tired of the same thing over and over. Input also is that 5th graders are not really into the family camping, they want to build fires and tell crude jokes The BSA's strength and distinction in the market place is the Outdoor Focus. If a unit does this, they will recruit and retain Scouts. The STEM stuff, Schools do it better. Duty to God, the Church youth groups likely has the better program. Leadership and independent thinking, learning life skills outdoors, yeah, THAT is what we do and what we SHOULD be focusing on. National is doing it's level best to limit the risk and activities, but many units plunge ahead. They have also WAAAAY over sold the Eagle rank. Yes it is good and yes it is a long term project, but that is not WHY we are running units, that is not the reason. Ranks advancement is a by product of good program, not the reason for it.
  2. 5 points
    Its become a money grab, IMHO. Pack funds should be spent on other things. I let the Webelos stay in blue if they wanted, it's not my job to convince them they need a new uniform. It's my job to provide a good program at a reasonable cost. I never required someone to get a hat OR new slide. I'm just happy they show up.
  3. 5 points
    I hugely agree. The Cub Scout program is killing Boy Scouts. Absolutely. I've taken four sons through the program. In hind sight, I'd never last in the new Kindergarten Lion program. I'd easily ditch the 1st and 2nd grade scouting years. Maybe do 3rd. Fourth is a good time to plug in. Boy Scouts definitely. But this whole idea of kindergarten through 5th grade for cub scouts ? It's ridiculous and it's killing excitement before Boy Scouts where the kids really benefit. Scouting should start when you can teach and trust scouts with fire, knives, archery, tenting and the traditional outdoor program. That's what sells scouting. Until you can trust them with fire and knives, let them kick a soccer ball or play organized t-ball.
  4. 5 points
    @Mrjeff, I'm tracking with everything you are saying. Along those lines, I was looking through the first edition of the Scout Fieldbook the other day. This printing was circa 1957 if I recall. It prompted some reflection. Scouting used to be focused on the outdoors. Rustic. Two or three blankets could be safety pinned together if you didn't have a sleeping bag. You hiked, chopped wood with an axe, cooked over fire, went swimming, built pioneering projects, etc. There was also a big emphasis on citizenship--US history, civics. Leadership? You bet, but not in a classroom. You learned that OJT as a patrol leader, teaching your patrol members all of the skills necessary to earn first class, practicing for competition at the next troop meeting/camporee, etc.... Though I went through scouting in the '70s, much of this focus was still prevalent. Sure, scouting has always had a cost factor. Dues, uniforms, summer camp, etc. But nothing on the order of what it costs today. Two factors stand out, if I may springboard from your post: 1. Perhaps the BSA has run its course and it's time for the bugler to blow taps. Organizationally, the BSA reminds me of a company that diversified and strayed away from its original core competency. In our case, being outdoors. 2. If we are going to fight to stay relevant, we need to get back to our best selling product: outdoor adventure. And encourage thriftiness. Jettison the "Gucci Gear" mentality. Cease the big push for earning Eagle. Sell off or mothball everything that doesn't help scouts get on the trail, in the campsite, on the lake or atop the mountain peak.
  5. 4 points
    I think any attempts by BSA to legally squelch her so-called board of review would just give Ireland more gasoline to throw on her "BSA is systematically oppressing me" fire. If Ireland has no problem with inventing her own illegitimate EBOR and claiming it was done correctly, she might as well just buy a Eagle patch off e-bay. In other news, I've awarded myself a sixth bead this morning.
  6. 4 points
    I'm also rural. When folks look at the cost scouting I'd argue they aren't comparing it to other youth programs, but rather a cart of groceries or tanks of gas to heat the house.
  7. 4 points
    I live in a rural area as well. There aren't many deep pockets around these here parts. Those with resources are bombarded with requests from well-meaning organizations in need of funds. Our community is generous but folks are financially fatigued, in every sense of the phrase.
  8. 3 points
    But how large does national need to be? I bet we could improve the program by cutting Irving down to 20 people: 1 Boss to be in charge. SE 1 lawyer. 4 people to keep the lawyer out of the way and in his closet. 2 folks to direct updating the BSH every 5 years and merit badge pamphlets as needed. (Direct: as in soliciting informed volunteers to get together and provide experienced input from boots on the ground.) 1 person in charge of Philmont 1 person in charge of Seabase 1 person in charge of Northern Tier. 1 person in charge of renting out Summit. 1 person helping the less famous HA venues. 2 people ordering uniforms and badges for the Scout Shops. 1 person to refer fund raising offers/donations to the appropriate local councils/ districts. 1 person to answer the phone and forward eMails. 1 ombudsman to make sure that every BSA decision is aimed at getting boys/girls into the Outdoors to experience Nature. 1 expert to answer local questions and augment real world experience into National best practice. 1 person to sweep, empty the trash, and turn out the lights. Fee increase? Shucks; we can reduce fees and deliver an better program. And have fewer assets for money grubbing lawyers to target...
  9. 3 points
    Vintage uniforms are allowed. My youngest was in Blue after the June 1, 2015 date. Only reason he switch over to tan and green prior to Cross Over was his older brother outgrew his uniform and sold it to him. As for slides, one thing we did as a pack was give them paracord Turks' Head woggles. For the price of 1 metal BSA slide, I could make 25-30 slides.
  10. 3 points
    Looking at what other countries do, it seems like they split off k-2 and 3-5 into two different programs. If we are to have a k-12 program, that really ought to be a goal, IMO. Breaking those two out would greatly improve the ability to do fun stuff with the 3-5 kids. More hiking, camping, outdoors, without as much worry about kids being ready. Trying to set standards for activities for all kids k-5 is really tough.
  11. 3 points
    Pete, I've been long convinced that the cub program is going to be one of the leading causes of the BSA's failure to thrive. The cub program, as I went through it, was this: Bobcat/Wolf/Bear: Okay cubs, you've got 2 years [for all three ranks] to learn how to get along with people and do some age appropriate stuff. Webelos: 1 year! You've got 1 year to grow up and get ready to join a troop! See that troop over there? Hiking, backpacking, building big signal towers, cooking delicious food on fire? That's what's in store. And no slacking! Now cubs is a several year slog. I've heard that the pros are pondering why there is such a big drop out rate after cubs. Apparently over half of the kids decide to drop after crossover. The best reason I've heard came from a scout. We're at a district function. I'm setting up some food, and I heard two scouts talking about their tenure in scouting. One said to the other "Do you know how long I've been doing this crap?"
  12. 3 points
    Wow, wow, wow, another price increase. I think it's pretty obvious that the BSA is not doing very well as an orgination managed by a central entity. It would appear that many many negative influences have risen up and the BSA is having a hard time dealing with them. I see that it has become very corporate and has lost focus on why people join scouting and why they stay around. At this time of the year the big focus is on growth and developing new units. Then popcorn season, .......and the cycle continues. I would suggest that the BSA think about an entirely different approach. Restructure from the top down. Look at the salaries of the senior executive staff, look at property holdings, look at programs that are not universaly productive, and support what they have and not worry so much about what we want to have. Scouting is changing but it just doesn't have "the draw" that it had when I was a boy; my two sons, both Eagles, dont have the interest that I have; and my grandson, who has to finish his eagle project, has even less interest. It may be that, like so many successful business, the BSA has overextended and just can't make the money needed to sustain it's assets. It may be that thay are having trouble with competing markets. It may be that they underestimated the impact of recent, controversial decisions. It may be that they overpriced themselves to the point that people dont think the product is worth the price anymore. Or, sadly it may be that the business of scouting, along with its values, standards, activities, adventure, oppertunities, and traditions, has simply run it's course like so many extinct organizations. (Gimbles, Wanamakers, JC Penny, Woolworths, Packard, Hudson, D.A.R.E., Dacor, U.S. Divers, Bob's Candy, and this list could go on for pages). I really think that people with a better prospective on business then I have, should reevaluate this whole thing from top to bottom, bottom to tob, and every angle, and reorganize the whole thing and try to save what we have.........before the whole show disappears completely.
  13. 3 points
    I am not involved in any other activities at school, nor is my wife. The bargain argument of other activities is not relevant to leaders who are looking at a significant increase. From my perspective its not a matter of what it costs my Scout. It will impact our entire family since we are all registered. Right now at $33 we are looking at $132 for all 4 of us, IF they go to $100 a year then we are talking $400 just for National fees before anything else is factored in.
  14. 3 points
    This whole waiting game national is playing has been a huge stressor for our Troop. I get it, BSA is getting hammered on insurance costs. But what about us poor, rural folks trying to keep a program going on an already shoestring budget? If our Council exec doesn't give a damn, I guess I should expect nothing more from a guy in Dallas make 500 grand a year...
  15. 3 points
    I think a lot about the movie "Follow Me Boys". Whether it was historically accurate or not, it reminds me that Scouting is really about the youth experience. When I was a kid, I knew councils & national existed - but they were irrelevant to me. In my decade Scouting, most of it has been as either a Cubmaster or Troop Committee Chair. In those experiences, I've never really worried about what the council or national thinks or wants. Both of those groups are really just here to provide me support as I run my program. I want to write a sticky post for this forum that says "Remember - units are in charge." The council and national are NOT higher headquarters (to use your phrase)and they are NOT in charge. They are in essence a franchise system that provides you a program and resources to help you implement that program. This is why many council scouters I know talk about the inverted pyramid model The unit is at the top of the organization chart. The rest - districts, councils, & national are here to provide you support. Now, that doesn't mean that those groups don't have goals - sure they do. They all have employees and budgets. They want to see Scouting grow and have money available to do interesting things (like have council camps). Councils will always ask you for money, they will always encourage you to recruit. Further, national is going to impose rules to keep the program uniform. National is also going to create rules to satisfy the underwriters of their insurance program. Yes, we often live at the intersection point of this. But, I would encourage you to put that in context. First and foremost it's all about unit leaders bringing Scouting to youth. I would encourage you to devote only an hour or two a month to worrying about council & national. Don't let your frustration with them get in the way of what's important.
  16. 2 points
    A neighbor kid of mine collected handbooks and did just that. I'd see him and his "patrol" on some trails in our community's park. @Sentinel947, your church's and mine ... someplace between here and Hogtown. The coffee will be strong and hot.
  17. 2 points
    Since my kids are long gone, I'd do more in my wood shop. That's happening anyway. Yes, tools are expensive but they'd be mine. Now, if my kids were younger .... One idea I've thought of, the BSA has a great handbook, so why not just use that? Just do the program and don't join. It's not just $50 to national I'd save, we also have a $200 tax to council. Every camporee now has a 35% tax for council as well. Uniforms could also be simplified. The tradeoffs are: no official eagle scouts and no help with summer camps, camporees, MB counselors, or HA trips. While that puts more pressure on the units I'm thinking that could be a good thing if the scouts are encouraged to own more of this. My troop used to do most of this anyway (except the part about getting the scouts to own more). Who knows, if enough troops joined Rogue Scouts the BSA might get some needed competition and bring everyone back into the fold.
  18. 2 points
    The challenge as I see it in my area is that the professionals want it their way, and don't try to change it or you will be removed from your POR at the district/council level. Worse case I saw was being removed from BSA altogether. There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. EDITED: There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. But there are more who do not, and they tend to be the SEs and DFSs of the councils. They put pressure on the lower DEs. And since DEs have their jobs on the line, it is a lot of pressure. I quit.
  19. 2 points
    In agreement that the cub program has become overbearing. I lamented that my son had no interest at cub age, thought he was missing out. Got interested in W2 age, but ultimately heard that the DL was not organized, and the kids/parents were just sticking it out to get to crossover so I held him off until he could do troop. As he got into troop, and I learned what was involved in cubs (was it two fingers now, or three? Law of the Pack isn't a thing anymore? And AoL is a program year itself now?), I didn't regret he didn't join. I've thrown it out in other threads- the BSA seems to care more now about cubs than 'Scouts BSA' sadly. I'm also greatly concerned on those posting that "we'll go through bankruptcy, and all will be fine". Uh, my actuary co-workers would beg to differ on any interpretation that risk mitigation is greater because of a bankruptcy. The future insurance costs are going to be based on the risk to underwrite the program based off the sins of the past, regardless of how much $$$ BSA ends up having to pay in settlements. This new background check process is absolutely an attempt to stave off risk costs. I won't at all be surprised if we see greater age restrictions coming in the next year on shooting sports, climbing, and high adventure. I fear immensely that BSA is going to do what it feels it has to do to keep risk related factors in check to help with costs.
  20. 2 points
    I'm also thinking of the new neckerchief slides, etc., that go along with each new cub rank. I recall we had one slide/hat/neckerchief for Bobcat/Wolf/Bear. Webs was a big deal--new slide/hat/neckerchief. Plus the colors on the right sleeve. Uniforming seemed simpler.
  21. 2 points
    I was in for the beginning of Tigers, but I dont remember much of it because Tigers was in its infancy. There is too much repetition over the years, too much doing the same crap. And some if that crap is BORING. The kids want to be outside, exploring. Current program does not do enough of that. Oh it's there, but just not enough.
  22. 2 points
    Maybe BSA is like Butterfinger. The name is there, the product appears to be there, but when you take a bite its just not there anymore. And all the loyal Butterfinger fans are abandoning the product. (Nestle sold off Butterfinger and the new ones are NASTY)
  23. 2 points
    Last cost increase was approx 50% I am hearing everything from $50 to $125 now, which is 51% to 378% increase, with one council anticipating a 300% increase. That is not chump change for some families with 1 person involved, let alone those families with multiple registered. There are families in my area, long time Scouting families I might add, that are looking at alternatives.
  24. 2 points
    or clothes for work/school, doctor's visits....
  25. 2 points
    Those are fees I've never minded paying....
  26. 2 points
    I spoke with my attorney and he told me that this document is too broad and open ended. I am ok with criminal background checks but this appears to be an agreement allowing the BSA and their employees to look into every aspect and area of my private life (my attorney agrees). I plan to make several pen changes, and have that form notarized before turning it in. I also dont like the idea of them sharing information. I'm a retired Marine and law enforcement officer and held a final top secret security clearance so clearly I have nothing to hide. But I dont think that the BSA should have access to all of my private information.
  27. 2 points
    I know not quite the question you're asking, but... I'd plan a fundraiser. Even if the BSA fees doubled (or tripled), I think it is still payable. I also do not think the services of the BSA national organization warrant such a fee. However, I think that the overall value I get from being involved with the BSA is significant. I think it will be a harder to recruit into these other organizations and question their ability to provide a similar level of infrastructure to the youth I serve. So while they me be more economical, I don't think I'd jump over the amounts being discussed.
  28. 1 point
    I do not agree with the overall negative tenor of comments in this posting. We are in the process of working out our financial, liability, program and membership fails. We have changed more in the last few years than the last couple of decades -- and for the better in my view. We are no longer a cultural punching bag. We are indeed limiting our future liability by tightening-up things and will soon deal with the liability of the Youth Protection fails through the bankruptcy. Our over-reliance on a particular national chartering organization is being replaced by a more-balanced membership effort, including girls. In our council of 13,000 Scouts BSA members, 800 are now girls -- in 75 Troops. That will swell over the next few years as the Troops naturally grow and more troops are added. The program works for girls as-is I am a Scoutmaster of a new 30-girl Troop and know that first-hand. Program? The BSA now has Al Lambert in charge of the bases and program -- he is about the finest outdoor programmer we could ever want at the very top. I'm not some Pollyanna either. I have all the top awards as a youth and served simultaneously in council and national roles for 30 years. I have indeed been in the dark valley and we are no longer in it. We are climbing out to a new and better circumstance and many of the commenters here are just blind to it. If you want to go off and be all alone in the woods with a few kids to have fun, then go do it. I will be with the BSA and that is where we will continue to serve millions of Scouts.
  29. 1 point
    We have talked about that a bit locally.
  30. 1 point
    Language is but a social construct having no intrinsic meaning. 😎
  31. 1 point
    Imaginary conversation between two girl scout parents: Mom A: My daughter is doing a week of scout camp this summer. Mom B: Is she doing day camp or overnight camp? Mom A: She'll be doing overnight camp. It will be the first time she's been away from family for a whole week.
  32. 1 point
    Add in Cub Family camping, and it could potentially be longer. My youngest has been camping in the Scouting program since he was 20 months.
  33. 1 point
    I agree! I'll also throw in Coca Cola and Old Spice after shave. To get Coke with the decent taste of yesteryear (not the cocaine-infused formula, I'm talking 60s/70s), you've got to buy the product bottled in Mexico. Old Spice, after decades of success, changed its after shave formula and it's not even close to the original. Companies make excuses of various kinds. But sales and customer loyalty falter. As for the BSA, it has tried for decades to tinker and stray away with its original formula. Without much success. Being outdoors is timeless, and it shouldn't cost a bundle to be there.
  34. 1 point
    Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered. Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank. - if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so. - There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, crew, or ship. - A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application. In the case of a board of review under disputed circumstances, the council must verify all the information that is not in dispute before the board of review is scheduled
  35. 1 point
    You know what would change recognition value? NESA recognizing girls who earned Gold Award. But, then again, they wouldn't recognize venturers who earned BSA's highest award for them ... and that one has an Eagle on it!
  36. 1 point
  37. 1 point
    This was in my news fed this morning https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/10/15/girls-boy-scouts-eagle-scout/
  38. 1 point
    Now there's some cash outlay....golfing. $500 for clubs (yeah I know cheap set), $50 for green fees, $20 for a dozen balls...not to mention fees at the 19th hole
  39. 1 point
    I don't expect the same here. A Cub Scout program today costs about $80 a year on average here. This includes $33 a year for BSA dues. The average family spends another $60 on a uniform every few years. The probably add another $120 to pay for camping trips ($20 per person for Scout & parent twice a year). This nets about $200 a year for Cub Scouts in my area. A Scouts BSA program costs about $80 a year on average here (including National dues). The same family spends about $100 on a uniform every few years. They add about $300 for summer camp and add another $200 for camping trips ($25 per Scout 8 times a year). This nets about $580 a year for Scouts BSA in my area. Of course, add in high adventure and this goes up quickly. If the BSA dues double that add $33 a year to the fee. I don't see many Cub Scout families dropping because that $200 now turns into $233. I don't see many Scouts BSA families dropping because that $580 now turns into $613. Maybe I'm wrong - but I don't think so.
  40. 1 point
    I am pushing oldest to finish Eagle before Dec 31st. Hopefully after this weekend, 1 MB left and BOR. Depending on the fee, an if I can get aid or not, I may stay. I may give middle son 1 year to get Eagle. I hate that. As for youngest, may move to Trails Life. Overall I see a lot of units folding, and membership plummeting in my area.
  41. 1 point
    Gave this some thought last night after my last post. This fee increase has the potential to be an enormous hardship for my family. I guess we'll explore financial aid first, but from what I've seen from both BSA and other financial aid programs, it doesn't usually help quite as much as we've needed. Still, we won't go anywhere. My kids like scouting too much, and I like what they gain from it. We'll just have to find a way to work it out. At the same time, I'm worried about our Troop. For the last five-ish years, we've had scouts from two towns. The second town now has it's own Troop that has been doing well, so we don't have any incoming scouts from that town anymore, and our incoming group is already smaller than even before the towns combined. After this year, eleven of our 44 scouts are aging out - a full quarter. If the financial end of things further restricts the number of scouts coming in, my youngest isn't going to have anyone to be a leader to. Not sure he'll get as much out of scouting at that point, so I may revise the 'not going anywhere' in a couple years' time. We'll see. Daughter's Crew is doing well, and is based in an affluent town. Any fee increase might affect them less.
  42. 1 point
    I'm not really sure what to make of that comment. Again, I'm suggesting is that we put disagreements with council & national in some context. It would be very easy for me to get myself very demoralized by all of this - but I chose not to because I'm pursuing a bigger, much more important goal. That goal is bringing Scouting to the youth in my community.
  43. 1 point
    Leaning towards BPSA-US. Just curious if anyone has any experience with them, or another group. Leaving the BSA is not a easy decision or one to take lightly...
  44. 1 point
  45. 1 point
    @Eagle94-A1 The photo idea is brilliant!
  46. 1 point
    Nobody will, especially because nobody has heard about this. Of course, few people have heard of scout me in. Just to totally change this thread, how is advertising money spent in the BSA? I never see any ads from the BSA on anything. Does each council have to pay for ads or does national?
  47. 1 point
    Find a council/camp that does ATV riding and maybe the pistol markmanship course. Go to a high adventure camp like Philmont, but gotta find one that is open at this time of year which prob doesn't exist. Earn the National Outdoor Awards or some other awards that no other scout in his troop has ever earned. Earn all the merit badges related to what he wants to do when he grows up/goes to college/gets a job. Do more service hours, or hiking or backpacking or insert thing here than anyone else in his unit, district, council. Have him help along other scouts who are also on deck to miss their Eagle by a month or so.
  48. 1 point
    Mmmm... Maybe just fun things like Motorboating, Shotgun Shooting, or White Water. If he's actually up for a challenge, a Hornaday might be a boast-worthy achievement, or maybe a Supernova...
  49. 1 point
    Their best option is to get in a room and sort it out. Maybe after one or two events where they are guests of each patrol, maybe right now because they are done being everyone's guests! Your son's really good friend may be itching to start a new patrol, so him and a buddy might brazenly start with the four of them and see if there's another one or two who will come along. But, some of those scouts might be aging out. Or some might be itching to band together for some super-activity. (E.g., they signed up for hike-a-month club to condition for Philmont.) So the landscape will always look much different from the little-boots-on-the-ground perspective than it does on paper.
  50. 1 point
    Thank you everyone for your responses so far. The reason I picked a thousand is not that I want all of them at once, I just want a way to replicate it. Ideally it would be to work with a patrol size at a time. Several of you said this is a hard problem, and I agree. Maybe that's why national can't figure it out either. Stosh, I suspect if this method were explained well it would also explain all the others (except for possibly uniform) as they all work together. And maybe that's a good point to make. Several of you have said it's also difficult because too many scouts just want a patch. While I agree, my approach has always been that Eagle is bait and usually scouts will learn something along the way. JoeBob, I like your idea of problem scenarios with embedded secret bad apples. One of the biggest issues scouts have is conflict. Many are so afraid of it they will get run over by anyone that just walks off. I was thinking of using the same training for the adults as the scouts. Don't they both need to understand the same issues? Eagledad, I have no desire to counter anything the BSA has said, and in this case it's easy because they really haven't said much that's coherent. Here's a first cut of the major ideas any training should focus on. A lot of this is from the PL handbook but it's boiled down and I also added some don't to help clarify some ideas. Using them to solve a set of typical problems the scouts run into would make this more hands on. The Scout Oath and Law are central to everything and should be the lens to check every decision. Trust is hugely important. Scouts in a patrol must trust each other. The adults must trust the scouts to do the right thing and the scouts must trust the adults to back them. Trust is easily destroyed and takes a long time to make. Loyal, helpful, ... A patrol is 6-8 scouts that deliver the promise of scouting to its members: What the scouts want, what the scouts need (growth and continued challenges) and what scouting wants (scouts learning to make good decisions). A patrol owns its destiny. A patrol defines success, makes its own decisions, does its own work, and is responsible for its mistakes. Adults and other scouts may encourage them but it is the patrol's responsibility to deliver. There are well defined boundaries that the patrol should clearly understand. A patrol requires: -Teamwork: Look out for each other, nobody else will. -Spirit: It makes Teamwork easier and more fun -Direction, a calendar of events, problem solving. What do the scouts want? high adventure? Low adventure? advancement? new skills? service? -Preparation: Do what you want rather than just think about it. -Persistence: Problems happen, a good attitude will turn them into opportunities. A patrol Leader: Ultimate responsibility is in your hands. A lot of this is what everyone in your patrol should be doing but you have to do a better job of it. Your scouts will look to you as an example. -The patrol goes first. Care. Participate. -Make things happen: delegate, keep everyone busy. Be Prepared. Have a backup. When your patrol flounders it's up to you to get them going again. Make a decision when needed. -Ensure your patrol members are getting the promise of scouting. Find out what they want, work with them, develop them, help them advancement, give them leadership opportunities. -Listen and watch: Pay attention to how things are going. Regularly ask how they are. -Teach any skills that are needed -Praise good deeds. Interaction between patrols is limited to games, competition, and free time. The patrols must enforce this separation. Interaction between a patrol and adults is more limited. Separation is critical. Don't solve their problems. Don't lead their scouts. Don't make their decisions. Set boundaries that are clear, simple, and static. Support them within these constraints. When they make mistakes, make sure they learn.
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