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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/17/19 in all areas

  1. A lot lot lot of focus on Cubs. Looking on my council website; picture of a Cub, Lots of Cub Training, Lot of Spook-o-ree stuff. When they put in Tiger Cubs in 82, a good number of us thought that was a bit much. As many have noted, Cubs is less a fun program and more of a slog. We have had many boys over the years that bailed on Cubs / Webelos but came into Scouts. They were just tired of the same thing over and over. Input also is that 5th graders are not really into the family camping, they want to build fires and tell crude jokes The BSA's strength and distinction in the market
    7 points
  2. Its become a money grab, IMHO. Pack funds should be spent on other things. I let the Webelos stay in blue if they wanted, it's not my job to convince them they need a new uniform. It's my job to provide a good program at a reasonable cost. I never required someone to get a hat OR new slide. I'm just happy they show up.
    5 points
  3. I hugely agree. The Cub Scout program is killing Boy Scouts. Absolutely. I've taken four sons through the program. In hind sight, I'd never last in the new Kindergarten Lion program. I'd easily ditch the 1st and 2nd grade scouting years. Maybe do 3rd. Fourth is a good time to plug in. Boy Scouts definitely. But this whole idea of kindergarten through 5th grade for cub scouts ? It's ridiculous and it's killing excitement before Boy Scouts where the kids really benefit. Scouting should start when you can teach and trust scouts with fire, knives, archery, tenting and the trad
    5 points
  4. @Mrjeff, I'm tracking with everything you are saying. Along those lines, I was looking through the first edition of the Scout Fieldbook the other day. This printing was circa 1957 if I recall. It prompted some reflection. Scouting used to be focused on the outdoors. Rustic. Two or three blankets could be safety pinned together if you didn't have a sleeping bag. You hiked, chopped wood with an axe, cooked over fire, went swimming, built pioneering projects, etc. There was also a big emphasis on citizenship--US history, civics. Leadership? You bet, but not in a classroom. You
    5 points
  5. I think any attempts by BSA to legally squelch her so-called board of review would just give Ireland more gasoline to throw on her "BSA is systematically oppressing me" fire. If Ireland has no problem with inventing her own illegitimate EBOR and claiming it was done correctly, she might as well just buy a Eagle patch off e-bay. In other news, I've awarded myself a sixth bead this morning.
    4 points
  6. I'm also rural. When folks look at the cost scouting I'd argue they aren't comparing it to other youth programs, but rather a cart of groceries or tanks of gas to heat the house.
    4 points
  7. I live in a rural area as well. There aren't many deep pockets around these here parts. Those with resources are bombarded with requests from well-meaning organizations in need of funds. Our community is generous but folks are financially fatigued, in every sense of the phrase.
    4 points
  8. But how large does national need to be? I bet we could improve the program by cutting Irving down to 20 people: 1 Boss to be in charge. SE 1 lawyer. 4 people to keep the lawyer out of the way and in his closet. 2 folks to direct updating the BSH every 5 years and merit badge pamphlets as needed. (Direct: as in soliciting informed volunteers to get together and provide experienced input from boots on the ground.) 1 person in charge of Philmont 1 person in charge of Seabase 1 person in charge of Northern Tier. 1 person in charge of renting out S
    3 points
  9. Vintage uniforms are allowed. My youngest was in Blue after the June 1, 2015 date. Only reason he switch over to tan and green prior to Cross Over was his older brother outgrew his uniform and sold it to him. As for slides, one thing we did as a pack was give them paracord Turks' Head woggles. For the price of 1 metal BSA slide, I could make 25-30 slides.
    3 points
  10. Looking at what other countries do, it seems like they split off k-2 and 3-5 into two different programs. If we are to have a k-12 program, that really ought to be a goal, IMO. Breaking those two out would greatly improve the ability to do fun stuff with the 3-5 kids. More hiking, camping, outdoors, without as much worry about kids being ready. Trying to set standards for activities for all kids k-5 is really tough.
    3 points
  11. Pete, I've been long convinced that the cub program is going to be one of the leading causes of the BSA's failure to thrive. The cub program, as I went through it, was this: Bobcat/Wolf/Bear: Okay cubs, you've got 2 years [for all three ranks] to learn how to get along with people and do some age appropriate stuff. Webelos: 1 year! You've got 1 year to grow up and get ready to join a troop! See that troop over there? Hiking, backpacking, building big signal towers, cooking delicious food on fire? That's what's in store. And no slacking! Now cubs is a several year sl
    3 points
  12. Wow, wow, wow, another price increase. I think it's pretty obvious that the BSA is not doing very well as an orgination managed by a central entity. It would appear that many many negative influences have risen up and the BSA is having a hard time dealing with them. I see that it has become very corporate and has lost focus on why people join scouting and why they stay around. At this time of the year the big focus is on growth and developing new units. Then popcorn season, .......and the cycle continues. I would suggest that the BSA think about an entirely different approach. Restructur
    3 points
  13. I am not involved in any other activities at school, nor is my wife. The bargain argument of other activities is not relevant to leaders who are looking at a significant increase. From my perspective its not a matter of what it costs my Scout. It will impact our entire family since we are all registered. Right now at $33 we are looking at $132 for all 4 of us, IF they go to $100 a year then we are talking $400 just for National fees before anything else is factored in.
    3 points
  14. This whole waiting game national is playing has been a huge stressor for our Troop. I get it, BSA is getting hammered on insurance costs. But what about us poor, rural folks trying to keep a program going on an already shoestring budget? If our Council exec doesn't give a damn, I guess I should expect nothing more from a guy in Dallas make 500 grand a year...
    3 points
  15. I think a lot about the movie "Follow Me Boys". Whether it was historically accurate or not, it reminds me that Scouting is really about the youth experience. When I was a kid, I knew councils & national existed - but they were irrelevant to me. In my decade Scouting, most of it has been as either a Cubmaster or Troop Committee Chair. In those experiences, I've never really worried about what the council or national thinks or wants. Both of those groups are really just here to provide me support as I run my program. I want to write a sticky post for this forum that says "Re
    3 points
  16. A neighbor kid of mine collected handbooks and did just that. I'd see him and his "patrol" on some trails in our community's park. @Sentinel947, your church's and mine ... someplace between here and Hogtown. The coffee will be strong and hot.
    2 points
  17. Since my kids are long gone, I'd do more in my wood shop. That's happening anyway. Yes, tools are expensive but they'd be mine. Now, if my kids were younger .... One idea I've thought of, the BSA has a great handbook, so why not just use that? Just do the program and don't join. It's not just $50 to national I'd save, we also have a $200 tax to council. Every camporee now has a 35% tax for council as well. Uniforms could also be simplified. The tradeoffs are: no official eagle scouts and no help with summer camps, camporees, MB counselors, or HA trips. While that puts more pressure on the
    2 points
  18. The challenge as I see it in my area is that the professionals want it their way, and don't try to change it or you will be removed from your POR at the district/council level. Worse case I saw was being removed from BSA altogether. There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. EDITED: There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. But there are more who do not, and they tend to be the SEs and DFSs of the councils. They put pressure on the lower DEs. And since DEs have their jobs on the line, it is a lot of pressure. I
    2 points
  19. In agreement that the cub program has become overbearing. I lamented that my son had no interest at cub age, thought he was missing out. Got interested in W2 age, but ultimately heard that the DL was not organized, and the kids/parents were just sticking it out to get to crossover so I held him off until he could do troop. As he got into troop, and I learned what was involved in cubs (was it two fingers now, or three? Law of the Pack isn't a thing anymore? And AoL is a program year itself now?), I didn't regret he didn't join. I've thrown it out in other threads- the BSA seems to care more
    2 points
  20. I'm also thinking of the new neckerchief slides, etc., that go along with each new cub rank. I recall we had one slide/hat/neckerchief for Bobcat/Wolf/Bear. Webs was a big deal--new slide/hat/neckerchief. Plus the colors on the right sleeve. Uniforming seemed simpler.
    2 points
  21. I was in for the beginning of Tigers, but I dont remember much of it because Tigers was in its infancy. There is too much repetition over the years, too much doing the same crap. And some if that crap is BORING. The kids want to be outside, exploring. Current program does not do enough of that. Oh it's there, but just not enough.
    2 points
  22. Maybe BSA is like Butterfinger. The name is there, the product appears to be there, but when you take a bite its just not there anymore. And all the loyal Butterfinger fans are abandoning the product. (Nestle sold off Butterfinger and the new ones are NASTY)
    2 points
  23. Last cost increase was approx 50% I am hearing everything from $50 to $125 now, which is 51% to 378% increase, with one council anticipating a 300% increase. That is not chump change for some families with 1 person involved, let alone those families with multiple registered. There are families in my area, long time Scouting families I might add, that are looking at alternatives.
    2 points
  24. or clothes for work/school, doctor's visits....
    2 points
  25. Those are fees I've never minded paying....
    2 points
  26. I spoke with my attorney and he told me that this document is too broad and open ended. I am ok with criminal background checks but this appears to be an agreement allowing the BSA and their employees to look into every aspect and area of my private life (my attorney agrees). I plan to make several pen changes, and have that form notarized before turning it in. I also dont like the idea of them sharing information. I'm a retired Marine and law enforcement officer and held a final top secret security clearance so clearly I have nothing to hide. But I dont think that the BSA should have acces
    2 points
  27. I know not quite the question you're asking, but... I'd plan a fundraiser. Even if the BSA fees doubled (or tripled), I think it is still payable. I also do not think the services of the BSA national organization warrant such a fee. However, I think that the overall value I get from being involved with the BSA is significant. I think it will be a harder to recruit into these other organizations and question their ability to provide a similar level of infrastructure to the youth I serve. So while they me be more economical, I don't think I'd jump over the amounts being discussed.
    2 points
  28. I do not agree with the overall negative tenor of comments in this posting. We are in the process of working out our financial, liability, program and membership fails. We have changed more in the last few years than the last couple of decades -- and for the better in my view. We are no longer a cultural punching bag. We are indeed limiting our future liability by tightening-up things and will soon deal with the liability of the Youth Protection fails through the bankruptcy. Our over-reliance on a particular national chartering organization is being replaced by a more-balanced membership
    1 point
  29. We have talked about that a bit locally.
    1 point
  30. Language is but a social construct having no intrinsic meaning. 😎
    1 point
  31. Imaginary conversation between two girl scout parents: Mom A: My daughter is doing a week of scout camp this summer. Mom B: Is she doing day camp or overnight camp? Mom A: She'll be doing overnight camp. It will be the first time she's been away from family for a whole week.
    1 point
  32. Add in Cub Family camping, and it could potentially be longer. My youngest has been camping in the Scouting program since he was 20 months.
    1 point
  33. I agree! I'll also throw in Coca Cola and Old Spice after shave. To get Coke with the decent taste of yesteryear (not the cocaine-infused formula, I'm talking 60s/70s), you've got to buy the product bottled in Mexico. Old Spice, after decades of success, changed its after shave formula and it's not even close to the original. Companies make excuses of various kinds. But sales and customer loyalty falter. As for the BSA, it has tried for decades to tinker and stray away with its original formula. Without much success. Being outdoors is timeless, and it shouldn't cost a
    1 point
  34. Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered. Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank. - if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so. - There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of
    1 point
  35. You know what would change recognition value? NESA recognizing girls who earned Gold Award. But, then again, they wouldn't recognize venturers who earned BSA's highest award for them ... and that one has an Eagle on it!
    1 point
  36. This was in my news fed this morning https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/10/15/girls-boy-scouts-eagle-scout/
    1 point
  37. Now there's some cash outlay....golfing. $500 for clubs (yeah I know cheap set), $50 for green fees, $20 for a dozen balls...not to mention fees at the 19th hole
    1 point
  38. I don't expect the same here. A Cub Scout program today costs about $80 a year on average here. This includes $33 a year for BSA dues. The average family spends another $60 on a uniform every few years. The probably add another $120 to pay for camping trips ($20 per person for Scout & parent twice a year). This nets about $200 a year for Cub Scouts in my area. A Scouts BSA program costs about $80 a year on average here (including National dues). The same family spends about $100 on a uniform every few years. They add about $300 for summer camp and add another $200 for campi
    1 point
  39. I am pushing oldest to finish Eagle before Dec 31st. Hopefully after this weekend, 1 MB left and BOR. Depending on the fee, an if I can get aid or not, I may stay. I may give middle son 1 year to get Eagle. I hate that. As for youngest, may move to Trails Life. Overall I see a lot of units folding, and membership plummeting in my area.
    1 point
  40. Gave this some thought last night after my last post. This fee increase has the potential to be an enormous hardship for my family. I guess we'll explore financial aid first, but from what I've seen from both BSA and other financial aid programs, it doesn't usually help quite as much as we've needed. Still, we won't go anywhere. My kids like scouting too much, and I like what they gain from it. We'll just have to find a way to work it out. At the same time, I'm worried about our Troop. For the last five-ish years, we've had scouts from two towns. The second town now has it's own Tr
    1 point
  41. I'm not really sure what to make of that comment. Again, I'm suggesting is that we put disagreements with council & national in some context. It would be very easy for me to get myself very demoralized by all of this - but I chose not to because I'm pursuing a bigger, much more important goal. That goal is bringing Scouting to the youth in my community.
    1 point
  42. Leaning towards BPSA-US. Just curious if anyone has any experience with them, or another group. Leaving the BSA is not a easy decision or one to take lightly...
    1 point
  43. 1 point
  44. @Eagle94-A1 The photo idea is brilliant!
    1 point
  45. Nobody will, especially because nobody has heard about this. Of course, few people have heard of scout me in. Just to totally change this thread, how is advertising money spent in the BSA? I never see any ads from the BSA on anything. Does each council have to pay for ads or does national?
    1 point
  46. Find a council/camp that does ATV riding and maybe the pistol markmanship course. Go to a high adventure camp like Philmont, but gotta find one that is open at this time of year which prob doesn't exist. Earn the National Outdoor Awards or some other awards that no other scout in his troop has ever earned. Earn all the merit badges related to what he wants to do when he grows up/goes to college/gets a job. Do more service hours, or hiking or backpacking or insert thing here than anyone else in his unit, district, council. Have him help along other scouts who are also o
    1 point
  47. Mmmm... Maybe just fun things like Motorboating, Shotgun Shooting, or White Water. If he's actually up for a challenge, a Hornaday might be a boast-worthy achievement, or maybe a Supernova...
    1 point
  48. Their best option is to get in a room and sort it out. Maybe after one or two events where they are guests of each patrol, maybe right now because they are done being everyone's guests! Your son's really good friend may be itching to start a new patrol, so him and a buddy might brazenly start with the four of them and see if there's another one or two who will come along. But, some of those scouts might be aging out. Or some might be itching to band together for some super-activity. (E.g., they signed up for hike-a-month club to condition for Philmont.) So the landscape will always look m
    1 point
  49. Thank you everyone for your responses so far. The reason I picked a thousand is not that I want all of them at once, I just want a way to replicate it. Ideally it would be to work with a patrol size at a time. Several of you said this is a hard problem, and I agree. Maybe that's why national can't figure it out either. Stosh, I suspect if this method were explained well it would also explain all the others (except for possibly uniform) as they all work together. And maybe that's a good point to make. Several of you have said it's also difficult because too many scouts just want a patch.
    1 point
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