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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/14/19 in all areas

  1. 5 points
    Do we really need to revisit the topic of the highly manipulative surveys that were selectively distributed and strangely worded to ensure a pre-determined outcome? Please don't insult the intelligence of this forum by trying to assert that those bogus survey results were in any way a fair representation of support.
  2. 2 points
    As a former CC & CM, this is 100% correct. The decision on who is an adult volunteer is up to the CC & COR. If either of your rejects a volunteer - it's done. Since you both don't want him to be CM - this is easy - he's not the Cubmaster. You don't need anyone's permission to reject him - it's your call.
  3. 2 points
    Would you please post where you got those results? I have been looking everywhere, and cannot find the results of the membership poll BSA took after teh town halls in 2017. All the stats I have seen comes from non-member surveys. I know in my neck of the woods, it is no where close to 75% for the membership change. Maybe 35-40 overall, and youth is more like 5% for.
  4. 2 points
    Their response makes little sense. Their troop is not affected - it remains all male. Since they have invested so much time in Scouting, why should they leave? Allowing girls to become Scouts in the BSA at younger ages than 14 does not affect their troop. Trademark issues required a name change of the program. Surveys of the youth (and absolutely every group measured including volunteers, donors, Eagle Scouts, the OA and others showed a similar level of support) in Scouting showed a 75% or greater support for the addition of girls so they had a voice. The youth were in favor of adding girls. The focus has not changed from developing character and leadership in today's youth for tomorrow's citizens. So they have a voice, their platform was not successful, so they should have learned that is life for all of us. They should be encouraged to continue as perseverance and resilience is something that we all hope as volunteers that we are helping the youth to do. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge beyond units that I am a volunteer, but this kind of reaction seems to represent the adult volunteer views influencing the boys. It is sad that because the program is being offered to more youth that some now wish to discourage youth from participating in a positive life changing program.
  5. 1 point
    They're scouts. I doubt they'll smell sweet.
  6. 1 point
    I agree with @gblotter. Telling boys about surveys in which they likely did not participate is useless ... especially when the surveys did not address the name of the organization that hopefully they will one day lead. I've experienced this first first hand with scouts and unit numbers as troops merged. Quick summary: the older scouts felt left behind when a vote went against using the number of the older troop. There was resentment. Then a year later, when the new CO wanted to charge rent, the CC decided to charter under the old CO and old #. So, the next round of crossovers kept that #. I made it clear repeatedly, that nobody had to pull off numbers of their uniform. No other troop was using either #. So, we have two numbers that can hang on sleeves and pass uniform inspection. Earn respect through cheerful service. You'll be fine. Unfortunately, for our older scouts, the back-and-forth was too much. Most left scouting at life rank. Boys are sentimental. Can we blame them? We taught them to love tradition.
  7. 1 point
    Well, welcome to the Forums. What an introduction. Please warm your electrical self at our virtual campfire. I hope we can give you some comfort and good advice. Amen to all the above. Not mentioned..... does this person have a Scout in the unit? Does this Scout have another adult to depend on? Understanding and sympathy is a wonderful trait, but you and your Scout Unit have other concerns. If it escalates to this point, your CO may have to go to court to get a "no trespass" order. If the person in question refuses to allow the required background check, "assumes" he is the CM because no one else (??) will step up, bullies his way into position rather than discusses and gains approval, has not taken YPT, will not accept the decision of the CO leadership, then the No Trespass order may be your only recourse. I have known this to be necessary. Make friends with your local constabulary. BSA is an authoritarian organization made up primarily of consenting, cooperating volunteers. Underline cooperating. We accept that authority inherent in our concern for our youth. If the OP's description is accurate (if emotional), then this person has other problems that your Scout Unit has no ability to address. Good luck to you and your dedication to your youth. See you on the trail.
  8. 1 point
    Even though it is a different topic I can answer your question. Your right, when I earned Eagle I did not have the cooking merit badge. However, I cooked all the time at home, did try cooking on campouts etc so for me it would have been no more work! We did not need Merit Badge workbooks to work on Merit Badges but still went through each requirement thoroughly. Today I see many MB counselors and leaders "teaching" the material, say at a Troop meeting and signing off the requirement and NOT following the Learn, Test, Review method. Too many adults are afraid to "fail" a Scout and ask them to study some more and retest. I have recently seen Life Scouts that have never used flint and steel to start a fire, cannot tie lashings or knots, and cannot repeat the Outdoor code. I just took over as SM and we had a Life Scout move to the troop in July last year and turns 18 this year. He has not held 1 qualified Leadership position ever, but his dad signed it off for Star. After talking with him to try and give him the opportunity to hold a qualified position as Life Scout (which he has not fulfilled properly) before turning 18, his dad wanted to argue. Some might roll over but I will have not sign the Eagle Application and will be happy to explain all this to Council. The SM conference should involve some testing of the basic requirements, otherwise these Scouts are slipping through the cracks. BSA has a hypocritical Uniform policy. The Scouts need it, but cannot be required. We ALWAYS had uniforms, and did not question it! We are not able to require uniforms for SM Conference or BOR? If we are following the 8 Methods of Scouting, Uniforms should be required. Today, many troop are more Glamping than camping. They have gas stoves, benches, tables, plastic "mess kits", fancy dining fly's. The parents are buying Taj Mahal tents for "backpacking" trips. What happened to the basics, cooking over fire, enjoying the outdoors? Luckily my son loves the basics and the cold weather camping and keeps asking when we are going to do it. Well I am now SM so these ideals will be implemented to one degree or another. These are just a few of what has changed, maybe not on paper but how the Program is being run!
  9. 1 point
    You as CC and the COR are both responsible for approving all adult leaders in your unit. Since you're both on the same page that this person should not be your CM, and it sounds like there are some red flags that would pop up on a background check, this should be a short meeting. You need to let this person know that their services are no longer needed. Inform your DE and unit commissioner of your decision. But ultimately the decision is all on you. Your council will let you know that this is a matter between you, your chartered organization, and the individual who wants to be your Cubmaster. They still, though, need to be kept in the loop on what is transpiring. The council would get involved only if this application ever made its way to the registrar's desk with all that missing information. Because this person has not had his application approved by you and the COR, submitted to council, or had a background check passed, he should not be at meetings attempting to perform the duties of a Cubmaster. His actions alone should disqualify him: he refused to sign the religious principles declaration, refuses to authorize a background check, and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't taken YPT. He needs to be informed that his services are no longer needed.
  10. 1 point
    Like many of us who post here I'm just a lowly volunteer. I work mostly with the OA at the chapter level where about a dozen troops make up 90% of its active members. As far as I have been able to ascertain none of those Scout participated in the survey. In fact they were totally unaware that the survey even existed. I learned about it only from this forum. I heard nothing from my district, nothing from my Council, nothing from my lodge. Nary a word could I find pertaining to it on the many pages of the council website. So please excuse me if I am also a bit of a Skeptic.
  11. 1 point
    Okay, while I apologize for what you feel was a juvenile response, though I would say it just reflects my screen name, I will make an effort to give you a sense of my opinion. I have spent over fifty years working within the Scouting family and have witnessed boys being challenged by girls in venture groups and on a number of camp staffs, and on one or two occasions unexpected intermixing with Girl Scouts on an outing. But, most of the observation of which I speak come from working in middle schools and a few high schools where there were mixed gender groups for projects and such. There were a few instances even at the fourth and fifth-grade levels. Since I subbed for twenty years in many schools and three districts I had a fairly broad experience. I have also spent many years reading various discussions and studies related to these kinds of interactions just for interest sake and a broadening of my perspectives. I guess I am simply getting jaded in regard to the over the top responses being proffered in regard to this current issue, but also every issue that suggests moving in new directions within the BSA and Scouting in general. It should be obvious by other posts that I believe change is a constant and necessary and should be run with to the best of our abilities. At the same time, I have noted that any changes come with the need to be flexible and find the best paths forward. Change is inevitable in whatever arena we are in. So, I hope this post may be cleared now and I have been able to reenter my dotage.
  12. 1 point
    @Monkeytamer, all the best to your clutch of Eagles! I would be remiss if I didn't encourage you to tell them that theirs still work to be done. There a Palms -- not just insta-palms -- to be earned, Hornaday Awards, Patrol leaders to train, camps to staff, adventures to be had, etc ... There's nothing greater than a bunch of fellas modelling scouting to the rest of the troop without fretting over advancement. The rest of their terms should be awesome.
  13. 1 point
    Not knowing Monkeytamers son I cannot speak for him or his friends. But more than a few older scouts that I do know are also planning on leaving or have already departed. It does not seem that it is so much an issue with girls troops as much as the boys feel that the troop belongs to them. they have spent a third of their life in it after all. They deeply resent National changing its membership, its focus, its very name. They have no voice, no platform, so they vote with the only means left to them. Their feet.
  14. 1 point
    Did the two young men pitch their own tent and sleep as Scouts? Did they assist with camp cooking or cleaning, or help the Pack do things? If yes, I’d count it. If they were bumps on a log, I’d pass. It’s your call as SM.
  15. 1 point
    Got to thinking about my response and wanted to expand a bit here. I'm 100% behind being a member of the OA meaning something and there being a high bar for entry. I was not an OA member as a Scout and always looked up to those guys. As an adult, I've never been able to get to summer camp as a volunteer. So, even when I had 15 nights of camping, I refused to let myself be considered for membership by the troop committee because I didn't meet the rules. I'm also 100% behind units making common sense decisions when the info is imperfect. It's Scouting - not a law firm. So, sometimes you look at what's written and say "this is what they really meant." Yet, these OA elgibility rules have been in place for a long time. My read was the same as in this thread. The eligibility requirements don't say BSA camping. They are very specific about what long term camping means - but yet very vague on short term camping. So, I've got to interpret that as "any short term camping is fine." Why? I'm going to wager that any Scout who's going family camping enough to meet the OA eligibilty requirements as a result - is probably a pretty avid camper. A scout going on a camping trip with a Cub Scout pack - again, is probably a pretty involved Scout. Could folks fall through the cracks - yes. But, that's what OA elections are for. Let the Scouts sort this out. Now, if the OA really meant "BSA camping" - then the OA ought to update the rules. If they do - then great. I'll support it 100%.
  16. 1 point
    This is from the FAQ on the official OA page: Q. Will camping be counted retroactively for those currently in Venturing and Sea Scouts? Yes. Camping that has taken place within the two years immediately prior to the election will be counted beginning February 1, 2019. This camping must have taken place while an individual was registered with the BSA as a program participant and must be while participating with a BSA Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship. We would not require the camping to be while participating with a Crew or Ship, and not require the same thing of a Troop. I have been an Arrowman for 50 years, and have never encountered a unit of any kind that allowed camping nights with the family rather than Scouts to be counted.
  17. 1 point
    Right. Here's how I'd read this: I see only two restrictions on how the 10 nights are spent: not more than 3 nights on a single trip must happen while the Scout is a registered troop, crew, or ship member. This could be troop camping, cub camping, family camping, friend camping, solo camping, whatever. It's not vague so much as it's not what you'd expect. I think the point is that it's the society of honor campers. Whether you're camping with the BSA or somewhere else - you're still camping.
  18. 1 point
    A few "pearls" from my treks: * The chuckwagon dinner is a great change from freeze dried but dont expect too much. The two times Ive had it, it is commercial-size (boil in the bag) dinty moore beef stew and dutch over cobbler. As I said, a nice change of pace but it is really easy to over eat and get sick (dont ask how I know). * We did cowboy action shooting the first year it was offered so things may have changed since then. We used 22cal revolvers loaded a single shot at a time. It was fun because it was pistols but it was really pretty "meh" if you have done much shooting. * They never seemed to get tired of tomahawks. * Burro packing is an interesting experience. Both times we had a youth who has horses so he knew how to get the animal moving. I have read stories of people who were not so fortunate. * I am not aware of any cabins available to sleep in. Yes there are some to tour, we like Hunting Lodge. There is one place where you sleep in a lean-to type shelter on a platform on the side of the hill. Dont recall the camp but it is in the SW part of the ranch. * Our guys really liked the sweat lodge and the burro racing * It was so-so for the guys but the adults all really enjoyed the re-dedication to Scouting program (and the cabin) at Zastrow camp * Dry camps are not bad, you just have to plan ahead a bit. YOu've probably heard about eating dinner for lunch that day. * How much down time you have is very dependent on how organized and efficient the crew is. If they take 2 hours to get out of camp in the morning and have a long hike they are likely to miss program at the next camp. If you know they are slow to get on the trail and/or slow to hike, you may want to encourage low miles so they dont miss activities. * If you do Baldy, I suggest having it later in the trek so you have your "trail legs" under you. I have only done it on a layover day - just enough packs for essentials and to pick up food on the way back down. Hope that helps....
  19. 1 point
    Compare and contrast that wording with the camping MB requirement. "Camp a total of at least 20 nights at designated Scouting activities or events.* One long-term camping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent." The OA wants a BSA summer camp experience, plus another 10 nights camping. But by the wording, only the 5 continuous nights need be at the bsa sanctioned event.
  20. 1 point
    I agree w/all the perspectives offered. I would also offer this is eligibility to stand for election, not membership to OA itself so I might be inclined to lean towards putting them on the ballot--if these are the 2 days they need to make 20 their peers will know, or their overall participation w/the troop, and will make the appropriate assessment on their worthiness. I absolutely believe in standards and not reading more/less into requirements or adding/subtracting as well but in my humble opinion (and as an ASM and advancement chair) I feel sometimes (and absolutely NOT saying this is what is happening here) we adults act as if we are awarding the MoH and I tried to come down on the side of what is most beneficial to the scout. Again, not to lower standards or make things easier than they are supposed to but I know how motivating various honors and.or recognitions can be (and 25 years in the military adds to this opinion) and I tend to go more not less. but just an opinion from an anonymous guy on the internet.
  21. 1 point
    If the weekend was just families, who mostly (or even all) happen to be cub scouts but it wasn't actually a pack or den planned weekend, then absolutely no. it would be like counting your sons nights if it was just your own family that went camping at the state park. If these kids were there and did anything to show leadership- even if it was helping the cubs to start their campfire, teach a knot, etc. I would approve myself. As others point out, you have the final say on whether the scout has meet the 20 night requirement or not, no one from your lodge is going to ask for records, so trust your own gut on this. The "standards of the Boy Scouts of America" only applies to the long-term camping requirement- that's to say we wouldn't count the nights a kid spent at the private Camp Lackawanda that is more like a resort than a BSA summer camp.
  22. 1 point
    I would recommend contacting your local lodge leadership and get their take on this. Many parts of BSA advancement specifically exclude camping done with a pack. As several others have stated above, it may come down to why were they there. If just because it was a family event and they had no choice, probably excluded. If they were staffing the event, may find that the lodge will say it counts.
  23. 1 point
    Where they just family camping with the Cubs or were they acting as Den chiefs or similar roles. I would approve it if the boys were actively helping and training the cubs. But not if it was just a family campout. Just my two cents
  24. 1 point
    Come next month, anything larger than a troop event will be de facto coed (and depending on your troop, everything might be coed). I don't see how anyone could be lulled into believing the programs are separate.
  25. 1 point
    Are the boys in these troops truly for it, or is it adults saying OK with being linked? I ask because in my neck of the woods, the majority of the boys are against being linked troops. But the majority of adults seem to have no problems. In the troop I just left, the majority of adults were fine with being a "linked troop." The adults stated it would be coed in all but name. However when they asked the boys, they were overwhelmingly against becoming a linked troop. Enough stated they would leave over being "linked" that the CO and adults backed off on it. I would go it alone if it would hurt existing Scouts.