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The BIG Problem is ultimately the difference in desire. The adults want "Character Development". That's where the Goals came from. Eagle equals college scholarship, job advancement, higher initial rank in military. The BSA (Irving, Councils, Professionals) want "Numbers" (do they get a commission?). I think this is where the "eight methods " came from. Seems like all organisations want/need to quantify and define and list and point to. Last I was told, DEs are judged, not by the number of Scouts enrolled, but by the number of new UNITS. Where did that come from? The

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Having NA ancestry, I can understand the sensitivity (and I am thankful for it really) on the history of treatment towards Native Americans. Bringing awareness of it should be a part of any presentation of anything NA. I very much appreciate @qwazse stating "There is a difference between making money off someone's history and legends, and inspiring greatness through honoring someone's history and legend." and I am very enthusiastic towards anyone, OA or not, to take the time to seek out local NA groups and learn about their culture and history. For many NA groups today, they are challenged

With all due respect to your concerns, @fred8033 there is no greater insult to a culture than listening to the voices that dare you to never honor them. The quotes you put around local nations implies that somehow the lodge really wasn't in touch with tribal leaders. Or that tribal chiefs waffle in their beliefs. Or that when a tribe confers membership to erstwhile arrowmen, they do so lightly. This wrongly resurrects the "Indian giver" stereotype. When a tribes endorses support, they don't do so lightly. And, when they withdraw support, it is rarely based on populist whims, but rather a