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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/03/19 in all areas

  1. 2 points
    The BIG Problem is ultimately the difference in desire. The adults want "Character Development". That's where the Goals came from. Eagle equals college scholarship, job advancement, higher initial rank in military. The BSA (Irving, Councils, Professionals) want "Numbers" (do they get a commission?). I think this is where the "eight methods " came from. Seems like all organisations want/need to quantify and define and list and point to. Last I was told, DEs are judged, not by the number of Scouts enrolled, but by the number of new UNITS. Where did that come from? The kids want the adventure and camaradarie , or they don't join. Or stay. Why join a group that wants to hike and camp and rock climb and canoe and get dirty if you don't (want to hike and camp and...)? And if you DO, why stay in a group that doesn't? STEM and Explorer posts not withstanding.... Can we say that the original Scouting (B-P, Seton, Hillcourt) that was "discovered" and chartered, was defined as #3 above with the assumption that #1 and #2 would follow almost automatically ? So how do we get back to land of Christopher Robin and Pooh ?
  2. 1 point
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  3. 1 point
    Having NA ancestry, I can understand the sensitivity (and I am thankful for it really) on the history of treatment towards Native Americans. Bringing awareness of it should be a part of any presentation of anything NA. I very much appreciate @qwazse stating "There is a difference between making money off someone's history and legends, and inspiring greatness through honoring someone's history and legend." and I am very enthusiastic towards anyone, OA or not, to take the time to seek out local NA groups and learn about their culture and history. For many NA groups today, they are challenged to educate their youth to keep traditions and language alive, and most are very welcoming to non-NA individuals to share their knowledge with them. However, let's keep in mind one very important thing- the OA is representing the story of Lenni-Lenape traditions. Yes, it is subjective on who gave the telling of those traditions, and how they were interpreted into what became the ceremonies that the OA uses- however, the only formal establishment that is continually needed as to whether the OA, in whatever part of the world it exists today, should continue to use the Lenni-Lenape traditions is up to the Lenni-Lenape. If you are a lodge in say Kansas, your interpretation of the ceremony should still be through the lens of the Lenni-Lenape, not the NA group in your area. Even the regalia used should be based on Lenni-Lenape. I appreciate the sensitivity towards other NA groups, and it would seem very un-scoutlike if we weren't considerate of their feelings. I wish I knew how much effort and discussion was going on between the OA and the modern Lenni-Lenape descendant groups, and how they truly feel (or how much they could help us to be more true and honorable to this story). Personally, I think it should be required after the Ordeal ceremony for every new member to hear the legend told in a sit-down, here's what it means way, sans regalia and the dramatic element just such that the context of it, that it is an interpretation of one specific NA group, is soundly understood. The whirlwind that is the Ordeal weekend today, from my experiences, doesn't truly do that, and most of the younger scouts remember little of the ceremony other than "there were some Indians" (which, yes, I cringe about and will do my best to get them to listen to the legend of it, but I probably get 1 out 5 to actually be willing to take the time to listen, which is why I feel it needs to be mandatory). Sorry, I realize this is a great deviation away from the topic of this thread, but I feel it is so important that we have discussion on keeping the OA relevant, while also keeping its traditions relevant as well (that is in the obligation, after all)- and if anyone from the Exec Board actually reads these threads, I am happy to be part of whatever group is assembled to engage the Lenape to sit with them and discuss how we can continue to honor them in a way that does not offend (even if that means stopping the OA ceremonies).
  4. 1 point
    With all due respect to your concerns, @fred8033 there is no greater insult to a culture than listening to the voices that dare you to never honor them. The quotes you put around local nations implies that somehow the lodge really wasn't in touch with tribal leaders. Or that tribal chiefs waffle in their beliefs. Or that when a tribe confers membership to erstwhile arrowmen, they do so lightly. This wrongly resurrects the "Indian giver" stereotype. When a tribes endorses support, they don't do so lightly. And, when they withdraw support, it is rarely based on populist whims, but rather a specific violation of trust. Should lodges interact with NA leaders? Yes. What proof do you have that they don't? Football team names are a red herring. There is a difference between making money off someone's history and legends, and inspiring greatness through honoring someone's history and legend.