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A scout is courteous

The Boy Scouts of America national organization is not the Scouting Movement, nor are the local councils. The Scouting Movement is made up of the youth and their volunteer leaders out there in the schools and church basements and hiking trails and canoes and food pantries and local parades. Families join local troops and packs because they are drawn in by the good reports of their friends and neighbors and a yearning to do something meaningful. Scouting existed in America well before the Boy Scouts of America was incorporated. Maybe this is an opportunity to remember that Scouting does

Thankfully I gave a copy to the district with the signatures and my reviewer gave me it no problem. He was such a great guy! After I go to council to get everything scanned the report signed, I’ll be scheduling my EBOR!

As Mark Twain said "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." There are something like 2,000,000 youth enrolled in BSA programs today. Over 99,000 units as well . The BSA is far from being on it's last legs and it's demise is not imminent. Out district and others around us have seen growth in the last two years. It's convenient to say "the leadership of the BSA is incompetent." I would argue that if anything, the leadership of the BSA in the past few years has been bold and is showing leadership to build the organization and make it stronger." Yes the BSA is losing the LDS ch

Headed out to buy some popcorn single malt. I promise not to wear my uni while I drink.

Yes. It is a cash drain. If you read the notes (buried I might add) in the annual report the true picture of the issue comes to light. There are forward thinking statements about "upcoming fund raising" and "anticipated donations". Also there is a balloon payment north of $125 million on the bonds in 2021 I believe. Assume they would refinance that for more interest and kick that can down the road. Bottom line Summit is sort of a microcosm of what is wrong with "corporate" scouting. Some group within National (volunteers and pros) decided THIS is what was needed. This giant EGO

I report only what I see around me in our district. Our moderate troop of 30 Scouts goes camping 10 times a year and we attended two different summer camps. In addition to our active outdoor program, we have a vigorous advancement program with four new Eagle Scouts during 2018. Next door is a struggling troop with barely enough boys to maintain their charter. They meet only sporadically. They took only four boys to summer camp. Aside from summer camp, they went camping only once in the past year. Only one Scout in that troop advanced in rank during 2018. Also nearby is a megatro

There are a lot of people who are politically left/liberal on this very forum and none of us want to see the BSA in bankruptcy or any other bad financial situation. You unfairly characterize this news as part of some liberal agenda or plot by liberals to destroy the BSA. In doing so you insult every liberal BSA member, volunteer, and family. For some reason the moderators tolerate it. I have no idea why.

Well that is an interesting question. IMHO it goes back many many years and continues with inept management. The program at it's core is solid, the overhead execution is tone deaf and not aware of what is actually happening in the trenches. Early 70's - Social tinkering and the introduction of ISP (Improved Scouting Program) that gutted the core outdoor program, in 8 years 40% of Scouts left 70's and 80's - National Leadership handles abuse cases very poorly, and continues to handle them poorly 90's - Some focus away from the outdoor programs and focus STEM and non traditio

The insane turnover rate is fueled, I'm sure, by the long hours and low pay. If they started investing in and rewarding quality DEs, the problem would solve itself.

Recruiting members from another group is not illegal. Recruiting members from another group by using the other group's trademark is "illegal," not in the criminal sense, but in the civil sense. That is what the lawsuit is about. A court will eventually decide whether the BSA (and/or its councils) violated the GSUSA's trademark rights. Or the BSA and GSUSA will reach a settlement. That's how these things go.

It has always been my assumption that BSA National owns Philmont. The question would be whether there is any "restrictive covenant" in the deed by which the property was transferred to the BSA, which seeks to control what the property can and cannot be used for, and what happens if the BSA no longer owns it. [Note after seeing Mashmaster's comment: Ok, I was thinking in the right direction, but not far enough.] I see no reason why Philmont would be any more "immune from divestiture" than any other non-residential property owned by any other person. (Residential property, meaning the ho

I agree 100% on the first part. The single biggest threat to Scouting's membership numbers are the multitude of really anemic programs. But, I see it differently on the second. It's not the role of the BSA to shut down those programs. They can and should provide more than support, training, and reaources than they do to today. I've said before that one of the biggest failures of the BSA has been the way they have wasted the district concept. The districts are the front line of the BSA in improving unit quality. You want better quality units, you invest in stronger district teams.

Real scouting happens outdoors. At the unit level. It happens around the campfire, at the BB range, on the rappelling course, on the trail, during the last leg of the mile swim, and while paddling a canoe. Real scouts and scouters will survive without the JTE rodeo, FOS, expensive uniforms, merit badge fairs, etc. Not only survive, but thrive.

So you came in with the attitude that BSA was going to fail and know you are convinced they will? I have worked for companies that have restructured, gone bankrupt, and are thriving today. The assumption that BSA enrollments will go into freefall is not a guarantee. In the area that I am in there are more scouts joining this year than by previous years by a lot. normally my old pack had a good year with 10 new scouts. This year 40 new scouts joined, prior to any girls joining. In February, there are at least 10 troops starting with girls that I know of in the close area where I a

Assets at risk... 1- Summit appears On National’s balance sheet as a major land asset at over $370M. Other high Adventure bases (not specially listed) show up as $60M. 2 - $800M of various financial assets 3 - $258M endowment Financial Condition-from annual report The National Council’s financial condition for 2018 and the next few years will depend, in large part, upon three factors. The first is the outcome of the litigation discussed within this report (see Note 9) and the impact to GLIP (Note 7). The second lies with the success of securing donations for the

The Eagle Scout award .... 😳

?!?! Poaching, by definition, is an illegal act.

Well yes, but would you really want it any different? What you are talking about is personality of the adults in troop, not lack of quality control. Don't you think the program needs that much flexability? Programs in general do the best they can with the resources they can obtain. They may vary a little here in there with implementing the program, but it's more of a judgement of how they believe National intended, not a personal action purposely breaching the program. I find myself in an odd place defending National, but personally, I believe Nationals failures are the result of NOT list

LDS was around 18% membership. Bechtel Reserve seems to have been a financial disaster. PC Corporate world pulled funding based on BSA stance on gay leadership. Add the handling of the sexual assaults. Then pick a fight with the Girl Scouts by poaching their membership. Does anyone else realize that the leadership at the National level is beyond incompetent? Hopefully National will dissolve and Boy Scouts will return to a decentralized Council led organization. Only way it survives. And it will be a shell of it's former self and maybe not a bad result. Oh and there has been slight uptick in Cu

Although a longtime Scouter, I joined this forum only last year, motivated by my concerns about the decision to admit girls into all aspects of BSA's programs. From the beginning, I have repeated in post after post that this girl decision reeked of desperation (specifically financial desperation). Why else would BSA National rush to ram through such a divisive decision? Why else would BSA National bungle so badly the premature announcement of a girl program that had not even been defined yet? (When announced, BSA's girl program was not half-baked - it wasn't even in the oven.) All they could s

I'm sure right now National Supply has a boatload of debt with all the skorts they've ordered readying for the cub launch and all the new Scouts BSA branded merch they ordered for 2019.

So a greater incentive to get Eagle sooner rather than later? Hardly seems a business letter. Date? Salutation? The news links seem serious. I wonder how quick xxx will make an offer to buy Philmont? My $0.01

The volunteer moderators of this forum do cheerful service, usually just keeping SCOUTER.com organized and enjoyable. The policy and standard of decorum for participation here has always included (1) acting Scoutlike and (2) behaving as you would standing around a campfire where Scouts and Scouters could gather. The Issues and Politics Forum have always had greater leeway, because important and interesting issues deserved to be discussed. The expected change in policy by BSA is a major inflection point (one long overdue in my opinion, though I respect that some may disagree based

I wish other districts/councils would also attempt to do some "damage control" instead of staying silent.

Ah. I am a DE in a mostly rural district. My biggest population center is a down on it's luck "city" that is pretty dead culturally. So if I let a unit it die, it is a major impact.

It's fueled by a lot of factors, including those you listed. A lot of kids right out of college don't last more than a couple months because they think the job is something completely different than what it actually is. The current generation of SE's have a "I was treated like dirt as a DE in the 80's, so that's how I'm going to treat my employees" mentality which is a culture issue. The biggest issue I have is with professional training, or "commissioning". It's only a week now, which I think is completely ridiculous. I went though training back when i had 7 months on the job, and I wa

There will be some impact as the fire burned in the central country part of Philmont. However, there is a lot of land to reroute treks, and some neighbors who have incredible land have given access rights, so crews can see some new sights. The staff members I've talked to say the experience will be delivered, exactly as it always has been, with some learning about how fires regenerate ponderosa forests.

I continue to feel that if they were to redirect professional staff dollars for the highest echelons into improving district exec pay and in some area stipends to offset high cost of living issues they would have far less turnover. Even 10 to 20 percent redirect of the highest paid exec on the National level would go a long way to stop the bleeding in many councils. But, I am simply a highly paid volunteer with a number of hats. Each year my pay increase, yet I see nothing monetarily, just emotionally.

Please see my response to ParkMan. The one exception I would see to shutting down a chronically poorly-performing unit is where that unit is the only game in town, such as a rural area. In that case, the only way to provide those youth a Scouting experience is to keep the unit alive and provide whatever resources are available. (NOTE: The size of a unit is not an indicator of the quality of the unit's program.) But in a suburban area like mine with a dozen troops and packs within three miles that the youth can go to, there is really no excuse for nursing along a unit that has not gotten b

"erode its core brand identity" by making girls think that girls are now part of Boy Scouts. Not much of a leap for girls to think I don't need to join Girls Scouts I can just join the Scouts BSA with my brother (part of BSA marketing at cub level). It's absolutely poaching. The reason for the lawsuit is that GSUSA realizes if they do nothing there is a good chance their numbers will drop more than it already has. I have no skin in GSUSA game as my boys are both in Scouting. The point is that poor decisions are being made that is resulting in more damage for BSA and there is no accountability

That's what happens today- but it's the wrong model. The district volunteers should be taking ownership for growing and nurturing their district. If a given district isn't doing that it's the fault of the district committee and it's chair. If all the districts in a council are not doing it, it's the fault of the council committee and president. If districts around the country are not, it's the fault of the national board and chair. We as volunteers rely too much on the professionals and it's wrong. We need to assume more ownership for this.

The litigation from GSUSA is really rather trivial at this point and I don't imagine that such could come anywhere close to pushing BSA into chapter 11. And "poaching?" Really? As if GSUSA owns girls?

It's not the one thing that will take down Scouts. It's a multitude of factors. True that the current leadership is not responsible for handling of assaults that occurred a while ago. Most however may have had a position on Bechtel. Also the idea to replace the LDS numbers with girls poaching girls scout membership resulting in additional litigation. The ones responsible for these go-ahead decisions should be evaluated and removed if need be. You can't keep making "feel good" decisions that do not solve the problem or make it worse. Seems like there is a lot of Scout experience on this board a

Can anyone comment on the ownership/relationship between Philmont and BSA National. Would Philmont be immune from divestiture brought on by Bankruptcy? How much funding does Philmont receive from BSA National? Also last thing BSA needs is a bailout by US government. Would be the worst case scenario.

Considering the news article came out yesterday, or the day before, I think the CSE decided to do some damage control. I do not think ANYONE (emphasis) planned this email. On a tangent, Carebear, love the quote. Just realize Vader went to the Light Side of the Force in the end. I too returned from the Dark Side. To paraphrase Luke Skywalker, I know there is good in you. National hasn't driven it from you fully.

When I received Surbaugh's letter (email), it reminded me of one of my favorite Monty Python skits. We see two pilots in the cockpit of their airliner, obviously bored on a long flight. One says, " here we go" and he picks up the microphone for the PA system. He says, "Good morning, this is your captain speaking. There is absolutely no cause for alarm". and hangs up the mike. ???!!! So captain Surbaugh assures us there is no cause for alarm. I feel the BSA has a 'lotta 'splainin' " to do, to use another media reference some of us older folks may recognize. It is sad he has inher

I don't know if the link is helpful as the category is Rover Scouts which may mean Venturing and Sea Scouting in the USA. https://www.scout.org/sites/default/files/library_files/Grand Total Membership with Genders at 31 Dec 2016_0.pdf The breakout is 105K boys and 32K girls as of YE 2016.

2018 what a year, probably not a complete list Lost revenue - LDS scouts leaving - Membership drop from other factors - Philmont shutdown from fires Added Expenses - Abuse and safety lawsuits - Girl Scout lawsuit - Bond payments for Bechtel? (not sure of dates) - 2019 World Jamboree preparation. What's ahead - new bond issue? victim compensation/legislation? Federal bailout (Scout's honor on paying it back)? reorganization? National Meeting at a scout camp? President Trump tweeting "A sad situation." ?

"When the founders of Scouting started the program, there were not 2,000,000 members and almost 100,000 units." And it is headed back. Anyone who defends the actions of BSA National is putting blinders on. Bankruptcy is not a sign that past decisions you have made are fiduciary sound. So somebody tell me how Bankruptcy is a sign that we have competent leadership at the top that are making decisions in the best interest of the Boy Scouts. "Bankruptcy is protecting the assets of the organization" is true but is like rearranging chairs on the Titanic. The honest question that has to be asked

It’s not the end of a National office if BSA does proceed with bankruptcy. I think BSA could protect anything that generates net income and is critical to their continued existence... which I think would include the HA camps they own; however, I’m not 100% sure on that and I’m concerned that a judge would decide if they have to sell Philmont. I’m also concerned for the employees. It seems like typically the highest level employees (and highest paid) are rarely impacted as much as lower level (and in my view more critical) ones. Pensions, benefits and salaries could be at risk... I hop

Ok then, let's move the discussion forward. Thanks, RS

ItsBrian, I was holding my breath hoping you'd find your copy somewhere. Glad it worked out. We're very proud of all of your hard work and dedication to the program, that got you to this point. Rock that EBOR. Congratulations, sst3rd

Ask for it to be re-signed using the original dates of review and signature. Scouter's should be friendly and help. It's a whoops, not a circumventing processes. If you don't get help, take it to the next level. Even if not signed, I'd still submit it with an explanation. ANOTHER VIEW comes from BSA Nov/Dec 2017 Advancement News talked about signatures on the proposal. The topic is "Jumping the gun." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/advancement_news/2017_Nov-Dec.pdf Their view is the advancement requirement is to develop, plan and lead a project. Paperwork

Kind of a long shot, but if the boat is mostly used for personal use, then figure out the ratio and say it's fair for those that used it for their own use to pay that share of the $4000. How many scouts are in this troop and how much does the troop have in the bank? ($4k is huge for any troops I know of.) Also, what percentage of the families are upset about this?

It has been awhile since I took Troop Committee Challenge, but I just found a syllabus for it online, as well as a version of the Troop Committee Guidebook that is the 2000 printing, but I doubt the fundamentals of how the committee operates have changed since then. They don't say that the committee MUST operate by voting, nor do they say the committee CANNOT operate by voting. The only thing they say about voting is in the negative: SM's and ASM's do not vote. This implies that someone can vote, i.e. committee members, but it does not say what they get to vote on. In fact, the chapter ab

We had a quick Eagle award last night. After as we were getting ready to leave the Eagle made the comment "I am glad I got my Eagle before the name change". Interesting thought. Not so much for right now, because we are heading down the road and already have made a change decision. Question is how will these young men feel in 10 -15 years about the Boy Scouts of America (or whatever it may be called) and what effect will that have. Will they believe it is the same organization that they were in? Are the folks in Dallas selling the future for a hopefully quick win in the current tim

Welcome to the forums. First, I hope you are trained. 🙂. If not, training always helps understand things. There are three people who need to know about this: - First is the Committee Chair. He or she is the chief admin officer of the Pack, just as the Cubmaster is the operating officer responsible for program. - Second is the Chartered Organization Representative. He or she represents the interests of First Church of Anytown, the actual licensee of Scouting (the charter) for Pack 123. - Last is the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner. Normally, most Scouting

As I have come to learn, "experienced" scouters can come with their own bad habits and baggage. While you can see it only going one way, I have the utmost hope, and even expectation, that this is a golden opportunity to train the biggest generation of new scouters we have ever seen. Even if there is some failure in that process, some of the greatest scouters we have ever had will be joining our ranks in the next 24 months. I can't see it going any other way.

Not wanting to hijack the thread on starting Scouting in 2006, and thinking I'd light to weigh in on some of the comments made about yellow blouses and cub leaders and women, I thought I'd start a new thread. Specifically about women as Cub Leaders. Some folks on this and other forums have suggested that, aside from possibly Troop Commmittee, Cub Scouts is the only place for female leaders. Maybe that's true. For the little guys, women may have more patience and more enthusiasm to do the more "crafty" kind of requirements. Enter Webelos. Now here's where we seem to have a breakdown.