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This has turned into a very interesting discussion. As a 3 beader and a staffer of both the old course and newer 21C course, I have a pretty good grasp of its pro and cons. I was also the Council Junior Leadership Training Chairman when NYLT replaced JLTC. The WB pinnacle training reputation came from the old course that was created to teach advanced teaching styles to experienced troop leaders, mostly Scoutmasters. Not only were participants expected to have troop leadership experience, they were also personally invited by their reputation. Not just any Scoutmaster was invited. That furt

Over the years, I've had several WBers tell me, with a straight face: - That WB is more intellectually challenging than the classes I took for my master's degree (in organizational management) - The leadership/management lessons from the professional military education courses I took (nine total) when I was on active duty are, in fact, inferior to what WB teaches - Same things they told @JoeBob: no beads means that I'm not up to snuff, lazy, I don't care about the welfare of the scouts, I'm a half-stepper, too chicken to take the course, not capable enough to grasp the Deeper M

“Woodcraft,” by Nessmuk aka George Washington Sears. http://www.raems.com/articles/nessmuk/nessmuk.htm

I think you got it wrong. The rules as written would mean that TWO adults would need to stand outside monitoring the conversations. 🙄

I was at summer camp and a couple of WB (dare I say) zealots were hitting it pretty heavy that WB was the end all be all. Told them not doubting it may have some benefit, but in the last 5 years I had been pretty busy as we had doubled the number of scouts attending monthly outings, the troop was exceeding 1,000 nights camping each year, we did 2 summer camps, 1 High adventure trek, did 11 other outdoor activities, had 10 -12 Eagle scouts each year, service projects, etc and really was not sure what WB might do to take us the the next level? I explained my focus was on the unit and deliverin

I've found that the modern internal frame packs work very well if you have exactly the correct type of gear that will fit inside it. The moment you have something that's an odd shape or is too big, you carrying options become quite limited. Back in the day, you could plop a 4 man tent on top of your external frame pack, secure it with bungee cords and you were off to the races. It's pretty difficult to do that with the current crop of packs. I also do not like top load packs at all. After my first external frame pack, I had an internal frame from Camp Trails that was panel load an

I found this. I guess internal frame packs are the thing now.

We have had similar issues with door to door donors cleaning out old food. We had a smaller but still significant amount of very expired canned goods. I don't understand what goes through people's heads. I think that cash donations would be good for us to add to our flyers as well.

Oh you guys, I have to finish my WB tickets! Great discussion.

I get the distinct impression that modern packs will not have the longevity of older, canvas ones. My original BSA Yucca pack is now permanently attached to the war surplus plywood (!) GI M4 pack board. I used this from about 1960 thru 1980.... I think the internal frames are very comfortable to carry, but not very adaptable. You are fairly limited to their pockets, very little to tie extraneous things to. Diamond hitch is becoming a archeological artifact. I presently use ( when I need to walk) a REI pack frame with a generic pack bolted (real bolts!) to it, or a Kelty pack a

In addition to the fact that there is no "cub-" or "boy scout-" specific trained patch per se these days (you can wear the red or the green at your preference), it's also important to remember that you should never wear two of any patch on the uniform. No doubles of anything, even if it's an award you've earned twice.

Understood @desertrat77. I'm reminded of a interesting Wood Badge fact I learned along the way. The National Wood Badge director in any country is entitled to wear five beads. As I understand it, in the United States the last person to wear five beads was Green Bar Bill. Every person since him who has been entitled to be a five beader has refused the recognition. I always thought that showed a lot of respect and class. Your experience, unfortunately like others, clearly shows that not everyone who has completed Wood Badge understands class. You'd like to think the three and four

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered one.

@desertrat77 As a supporter of the program, I'm embarassed to read that there are those that make those claims. On their best day they are ridiculous exagerations. Trying to say that Wood Badge training is superior to other management or leadership type training is the wrong approach. Rather then saying it's better than someone else's course, we'd be better served by describing it as it is. Making grandiose claims is really not needed. There's more than enough good reasons for someone to attend without making those claims. Anyone who tells you that you're lazy, not up to snuff, or do

@Sentinel947, I was all ready for you to hit on one of my personal hot buttons: bad personal example. When one of these rotund individuals (from a folding chair pulled out of their camping van) implies that this old Eagle Scout, Airborne Ranger, Scoutmaster isn't up to standards because I don't have beads... I need ViseGrip pliers to hold my tongue.

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow. A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event. It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend. It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff. Event emcee introduces the course director. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is. The other staff introduce themselves. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate. Th

We have a scout in our troop who is about to turn 18. He made some poor choices regarding recreational drugs when he was younger. He has gotten himself back on track for completing high school and his future. He won’t make Eagle due to his detour. He is, however, the best “older scout” because he is honest about his mistakes with our younger scouts. He is able to tell them don’t do what I did and I think they actually listen because he isn’t a parent. He is brave and honest when he talks with them. There would be be a huge difference we’re this scout bragging about his detour. T

As per @Sentinel947 request, the pages of Wood Badge discussion was split into its own topic here. Discussions wandering off topic is what happens when a moderator is distracted by Netflix DareDevil Season 3. - RS

I won't take that much credit. I'm following the leadership of folks in my council. I'm trying to learn for when I get tapped to take on Scoutmaster at NYLT or higher level positions at Wood Badge. I've been turning down requests to volunteer at the district, but with my time in the troop starting to reach it's natural conclusion, I may pick up some district volunteering as a chance to keep involved while I'm working my MBA. So while I have good role models in those programs to learn from, people on this forum who have very different experience are important to hear from and learn from as well

Same reason folks refer to new Scouters (in their estimation anyone less than 20+ years of experience) as a group who's ruining the patrol method. The same reason they refer to women scouters as a group who want to turn Scouting into Family Camp. I guess it's a combination of ease of convenience and small-mindedness.

Not all WBers are horrible. I've worked with many great ones over the years. My SM growing up was WBer. I do not know if he changed how the troop ran as a result of WB or not, but I can count on one hand how many troops I've been in or have interacted with over the years, that compare to my troop under his mentorship. One of my mentors as a 20 year old ASM was a 4 beader on the council level. "Sweet Old Bill" was one who guided and mentored. He listened to folks, why explained things needed to be done, and got it done. But most importantly, he listened to youth and adult alike, whether you ha

I would add the Patrol Leaders Handbook; an edition printed prior to 1970. They are cheap on ebay, and provide concrete examples for an inexperienced PL to try.

In my experience the only people casting Wood Badge in a very bad light are over zealous self focused Wood Badge folks that lack the self awareness of how they appear to people around them when behaving very badly while thinking they are touting Wood Badge. The only people that I have seen actually making fun of Wood Badge folks, have been other Wood Badge folks, around here they have a hazing culture. Wood Badge folks make other Wood Badge folks dance and sing to get back lost items. I do not find such behavior helpful or amusing. I am not happy this hazing culture has also been imported i

I've served in several councils over the years, and in more than a few of those, the WBers were collectively "as described" by the criticisms here in the forum. Though I haven't taken WB, I know how to read a syllabus. And heaven knows, I have been subjected to many a long-winded recitation of every facet of WB courses by graduates. I can also assess performance. There is often quite a gap between what WB teaches and how many WBers perform their scouting duties. Not to mention how they interact (or don't) with non-WBers.

I do not have any problem with the Wood Badge course, or people taking Wood Badge. Most my scouter friends took Wood Badge and it was just a training course to them and nothing more. I have a problem with over the top Wood Badge recruiting that spoils a scout activity. I have a problem with scout camp fires becoming surprise 45 minute long beading ceremonies. I have a big problem with the way Wood Badge people haze and insult one another, it is very un-scout like. I have a problem with all the critter based sexual innuendo and inside jokes that sound like sexual innuendo th

It sounds like a good course for a summer camp to offer for scout masters.

G2SS May 2018 All Scouts registered in troops are eligible to participate in troop or patrol overnight campouts, camporees, and resident camps. Patrol Activities—A Scout patrol may participate in patrol activities. Two-deep adult leadership is required. Patrol Leaders Handbook (2010) Most patrol activities take place within the framework of the troop. However, patrols may also set out on day hikes, service projects, and overnighters independent of the troop and free of adult leadership as long as they follow two rules: • The Scoutmaster approves the patrol