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  1. It boggles my mind that anyone who has a daughter (I have two, both of whom are adults and moms themselves) would object to that requirement. Peoples’ energies should be put into finding more female leaders, not complaining about it.
    4 points
  2. I won't take that much credit. I'm following the leadership of folks in my council. I'm trying to learn for when I get tapped to take on Scoutmaster at NYLT or higher level positions at Wood Badge. I've been turning down requests to volunteer at the district, but with my time in the troop starting to reach it's natural conclusion, I may pick up some district volunteering as a chance to keep involved while I'm working my MBA. So while I have good role models in those programs to learn from, people on this forum who have very different experience are important to hear from and learn from as well
    4 points
  3. I've thought a lot about the recruiting aspect of Wood Badge. As a Troop CC, I have seen a lot of benefit in having leaders attend, and so try to encourage it. Sorry to make this all so long - but over zealous recruiting was described as a major complaint, so I thought I'd start by sharing what I tend to do. Why I recruit One of the biggest benefits to our troop is the ticket process. For us, it has encouraged leaders to get more focused in their involvement with the troop. I have seen it transform a volunteer who is present, but waiting for guidance into someone with more confid
    2 points
  4. @Sentinel947 I think that's a very good collection of the frustrations that I am reading about Wood Badge. I fully agree - feedback is a gift. I can't say that I see the same things, but I'm certainly fine in accepting everyone's word that they happen. I think that our national Wood Badge leaders should be thinking about and learning from this perception. I think Wood Badge should take the high road here. I think a big part of being a leader is in modeling the behavior you'd hope to see in others. So, as a Wood Badge community, lets listen, learn, and change. These things are curren
    2 points
  5. Thankfully, PowerPoint did not exist when I went to Wood Badge (kinda cause personal computers did not exist yet either) and there were a lot of outdoor skills in the course. We were in a primitive section of the council camp for a full week, and any comforts we had in our patrol site we had because we made them. As for the lengthy beading ceremonies we see at occasional Roundtables, they did not exist either. When I completed my ticket, I met with my mentor who gave me the beads, woggle, neckerchief, and certificate. I still have an old black & white photo of the very brief (only
    2 points
  6. Thanks! I really enjoyed Wood Badge, but I try to be open minded about where it can be better. I had "type 1" and "type 2" adults in my unit when I was a scout growing up. I jumped into Wood Badge at 22 mostly as a way to encourage our Scoutmaster to go. He needed it. It made him a better Scoutmaster, but it wasn't some enlightening experience for either of us. Good training, fun, I still keep in touch with many staff and participants from my course, but not anything the way some folks rave about Wood Badge. Still, I have a pretty positive impression of it. I don't even know if I was a Sc
    2 points
  7. Absolutely. My comment here has some bolding for emphasis and clarity. As a lot of Wood Badgers in my area like to say "Feedback is a gift." I've actually really enjoyed this thread, because it gives me things to look for in my own Councils' NYLT and Wood Badge programs. Obviously not all these critiques apply to every Wood Badger or every Wood Badge program, but it's still great feedback. I obviously can't speak for every Council, but I think mine has a decent handle on some of these things with our Wood Badge and NYLT programs. I definitely do see some of these critiques in my council.
    2 points
  8. I was a member of that first wave of recipients of the polio vaccine. Then shortly later, the Sabin vaccine. At school everyone got the Sabin vaccine. I remember it well. We all lined up and walked past the nurse who administered the dose. There was no choice and you had to be apocalyptically stupid to reject this somehow. The Salk vaccine was given at the public health department and I remember being taken there along with my sister. I had an aunt who contracted polio as an adult, and a friend in high school whose family had rejected it...and he was permanently handicapped from the disease. I
    2 points
  9. So you have 11 Scouts and two patrols? You have one small patrol of experienced Scouts (sort of) and one small patrol of new Scouts? What you have is two completely different programs with a SM that doesn’t know how to run either. Of course the 2 smaller patrols isn’t the elephant in the room (SM with no experience), but I would personally start by mixing the two patrols together for one program. I think a small troop like yours is an ideal place for scouting. Actually perfect. Older Scouts run the program, which requires pulling the the younger Scouts along on adventures. It gives
    2 points
  10. Not all WBers are horrible. I've worked with many great ones over the years. My SM growing up was WBer. I do not know if he changed how the troop ran as a result of WB or not, but I can count on one hand how many troops I've been in or have interacted with over the years, that compare to my troop under his mentorship. One of my mentors as a 20 year old ASM was a 4 beader on the council level. "Sweet Old Bill" was one who guided and mentored. He listened to folks, why explained things needed to be done, and got it done. But most importantly, he listened to youth and adult alike, whether you ha
    2 points
  11. I will say that in our council, wood badge is way oversold. Not every person who shows up at a training needs to append a “go to wood badge” to the end of their subject. I do also wonder how wood badge could be considered a life changing course. Getting married, having kids, or joining the peace corps were life changing experiences for me; wood badge was just a pretty good training course.
    2 points
  12. Our units collect donations from folks who just made purchases in the grocery store, so no. The food bank volunteers do check before distributing. From what I've seen, the larder is drawn down to bare shelves between collection times, so it's hard to imagine any of the canned goods reaching their sell-by date.
    1 point
  13. Eagle, I think you are correct. I recall beading ceremonies from the past, my first being the fall of '75. Pretty dignified affair. Part of a normal troop court of honor. My SM was presented his beads by a council scouter. It took about five minutes. A brief description of the WB program, a few personalized comments towards my SM, neckerchief, beads, certificate, applause, thank you, next on the agenda. No critter songs, cups or songbooks hanging from belts, kudu horn blowing, etc.
    1 point
  14. Hi @Jenn, I suspect that it's not that your troop doesn't want to improve. It's that the troop is a bubble. They don't know what they don't know and don't realize that there is a bigger world out there that is honestly a whole lot more fun. If this was a troop with a long time leader doing this, then I'd suspect the Scoutmaster doesn't want to change. But, in this case where there are leadership changes, I suspect it's a lot more about simply not knowing. I'm guessing that they figure they're going along just fine. There is an intro level course - ILST (Intro to Leadership Skills
    1 point
  15. IMHO, every course should have stated purposes, a targeted audience, published outline and responses to student and unit feedback. My $0.02
    1 point
  16. As per @Sentinel947 request, the pages of Wood Badge discussion was split into its own topic here. Discussions wandering off topic is what happens when a moderator is distracted by Netflix DareDevil Season 3. - RS
    1 point
  17. One thing I'm trying to think about, when did the outrageous promotions and beading ceremonies start? While the attitudes were around pre- WB21C, i don't remember the beading ceremonies, taking over of campfires, etc until after WB21C came out.
    1 point
  18. I did attend NOAC, and saw a lot of regalia on display, as well as dance competitions, ceremonies, etc. Very visible.
    1 point
  19. Sentinel947, well said, and I for one would welcome your expanded thoughts on the subject. To briefly comment on one of your points: "Treating other Wood Badgers poorly"--when WB for the Twenty First Century was launched, I was surprised when I read that previously beaded scouters would, in some cases, have to go back through WB. Their previous WB training and years of service to scouting weren't good enough--they had to go through WB again to receive the WB21 material. Though I'm an outsider, this struck me as a sign of disrespect. "You are qualified--oh, actually, nope, you gotta go
    1 point
  20. There is definitely some irony in this response. Barry
    1 point
  21. Parkman, I understand how it can seem that the ridicule level is higher than deserved. But I can truthfully say the WB communities I've seen over the decades (several councils) have more than earned the criticism. It's not that it's an accepted practice so much as a frank assessment of how many WBers collectively act. Their condescending attitudes aside, when a group within the BSA feels it's their right to hijack any public event--camporee campfires, courts of honor for scouts, roundtables, etc.--to spend up to 45 minutes presenting a set of beads, that's the clincher. In front of a
    1 point
  22. The 'hunger factor' is also important. But those things are sure good. Did they suck the heads?
    1 point
  23. To add, ANYTHING WRITTEN BY WILLIAM "GREEN BAR BILL" HILLCOURT (emphasis). Hillcourt took B-P's Patrol Method, and improved upon it with BP's, and after his death Lady BP's, blessing. The bulk of his writings were published from circa 1929 -1972 when the "Improved Scouting Program came out. It was a disaster. Hillcourt came out of retirement to write another edition of the BSA Handbook in 1979. He also wrote numerous articles for BOYS' LIFE MAGAZINE where he got the sobriquet "Green Bar Bill" Also Eagle dad is spot on with going to Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrols. They
    1 point
  24. I would add the Patrol Leaders Handbook; an edition printed prior to 1970. They are cheap on ebay, and provide concrete examples for an inexperienced PL to try.
    1 point
  25. Novel concept. If I'm understanding this correctly, each Scout is an individual and should be treated as such? I like it!
    1 point
  26. I didn't attend, but I've seen many videos of this year's event with Arrowmen in regalia. https://www.faceclips.net/video/y-2lWd5mUY8/top-10-grass.html From my understanding, OA will continue to use regalia, just not for audiences external to OA.
    1 point
  27. Oops, sorry for that misread. No excuse. I also ended up with great MiL AND FiL as well - but from a different decision-making process.
    1 point
  28. In my experience the only people casting Wood Badge in a very bad light are over zealous self focused Wood Badge folks that lack the self awareness of how they appear to people around them when behaving very badly while thinking they are touting Wood Badge. The only people that I have seen actually making fun of Wood Badge folks, have been other Wood Badge folks, around here they have a hazing culture. Wood Badge folks make other Wood Badge folks dance and sing to get back lost items. I do not find such behavior helpful or amusing. I am not happy this hazing culture has also been imported i
    1 point
  29. That may depend on where you live; in my area Wood Badge is promoted, advertised, even glorified ad nauseum, and for those who haven't taken it (myself included), there is often an uncomfortable amount of pressure to do so, as though one isn't a real Scouter until one has their beads. And the number of Scouters around here who do have them is very high; I've nearly been made to feel somewhat guilty at a few events for being as involved in Scouting as I am and yet not having taken the course. Nevertheless, I have never been one to acquiesce to peer pressure generally, and if I end my Scouting d
    1 point
  30. What you are facing is normal, this is what almost all new scout troops face. The boys need to be trained, before they can lead. The scout master is the key person that needs to get the SPL trained and up to speed. There are some books that would really help your new scout master with some much needed insight, I suggest: The Scout Masters Handbook The Boy Scout Handbook So Far, So Good! A New Scoutmaster's Story by Clarke Green The Scouting Journey, by Clarke Green The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook, by Mark A. Ray
    1 point
  31. Saying "Wood Badge is just another training course" is technically correct - but it misses some of the most important parts of the experience. Let me see if I can explain. First - It's a shared experience. A Wood Badge course is two very long three day weekends. During that time, the participants spend a lot time getting to know each other. The whole course is structured to encourage that - kinda like the patrol method can for Scouts. Some of the participants clearly have a "when can I go home and mow my lawn" vibe. But, many others embrace the experience. I'll admit - I enjoyed th
    1 point
  32. I've served in several councils over the years, and in more than a few of those, the WBers were collectively "as described" by the criticisms here in the forum. Though I haven't taken WB, I know how to read a syllabus. And heaven knows, I have been subjected to many a long-winded recitation of every facet of WB courses by graduates. I can also assess performance. There is often quite a gap between what WB teaches and how many WBers perform their scouting duties. Not to mention how they interact (or don't) with non-WBers.
    1 point
  33. I agree completely. That is the situation I am in. When I taught SM specific and IOLs, I went after the best folks I could to help with the courses. I even had youth staff who i know had the KSAs to do the job to show what a Scout is capable of doing if you "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" And I have folks I see today who are only paying lip service to the patrol method. One troop was nearly annihilated when one of them took over. he told me that "BSA needed to change with the times." Of the 3 NYLT grads he had when he took over as SM, 1 stayed registered to remain in the OA, but never
    1 point
  34. I've completed NYLT (2009), and Wood Badge (2015) and also served as adult staff on NYLT(2018). They are incredibly similar courses. Their content is similar. Where they differ (or should if they're done right) is the mindset the participant should be in. NYLT a Scout is supposed to live the life of a scout in a model troop and participate in the activities that challenge them and their patrol. Wood Badge is similar, but it's more about witnessing and participating in how a model troop is run, and the presentations are tied back to how adults can coach youth in leading the troop. Wood Badge in
    1 point
  35. Sadly this happens already with some folks. I've encountered folks whose attitude is "If you don't wear beads, you don't know squat." And I agree is does indeed cause drama and problems we don't need. I've seen some extremely experienced and knowledgeable Scouters get frustrated with the attitude and either quit Scouting all together, or just refocus their energy on the unit. Me personally, I get a kick out of using all the WB/NYLT techniques, methods, and language, and getting asked what critter I am. I love the look on folks' faces when I proudly jump into song, "I'm a Cocky Curlew of
    1 point
  36. The BSA is already pro-vaccination, thank goodness. See Public Health merit badge, requirement 2.
    1 point
  37. The problems of English not disinguishing between you-singular and you-plural. Do you read this as "if you (a hard worker) choose a spouse who is also a hard worker (and not just pretty/handsome) then you two together may camp more and work double-shifts less? Or do you read this as "you will be able to goof off while your wife works"? The problems of internet comumication where we cannot see our listeners' mis-understanding in their eyes, and correct it before it really takes root. Maybe I've been paying too much attention to what Quazse has been saying about girl venturers
    1 point
  38. Might suggest review of this: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-103(18)_Prev_of_CommunicableDiseases.pdf
    1 point
  39. I think sharing a similar sense of humour is important in a relationship. In which case, luckily, it seems qwazse and WinsconsinMomma are not in a relationship, as far as we can tell.
    1 point
  40. Rural India and the Middle East are extremely sexist. In addition to this dowry burning, in parts of rural India women are expected to burn themselves to death, and celebrated for it, when their husbands die. All of this is treating women as property https://www.smh.com.au/world/india-burning-brides-and-ancient-practice-is-on-the-rise-20150115-12r4j1.html https://scroll.in/article/874185/decades-after-india-outlawed-sati-a-temple-to-a-victim-in-bundelkhand-draws-scores-of-devotees I think it serves everyone better to make sure the boys and girls can manage their own cookin
    1 point
  41. USA Archery Level 1 instructor level training is all you need (minimum) in order to be an Archery merit badge counselor: "Archery. Archery activities must be supervised by a BSA National Camping School–trained shooting sports director or USA Archery or National Field Archery Association instructor, or by someone who has been trained by one of the three; or alternatively, the activities may be supervised by someone with at least Level 1 training in the operation of an archery range from USA Archery, NFAA, or an equivalent."
    1 point
  42. I believe you. But it doesn't matter really. I just treat all my Explorer Scouts as individuals, and I seem to get by with that, so the more mature get treated in a more mature way, and those that haven't matured yet don't. I treat the exuberant ones different to the quiet ones, etc etc. Much as I assume most of you do with your boys at the moment.
    1 point
  43. It might just be sheer luck that I wasn't one of those Eagle Scouts. If premarital sex is a disqualifier for Eagle, I guess I should turn in my medal. I agree with previous sentiments, that it should be more about how Scouts respond to their circumstances. Do they take responsibility for their decisions? Do they do what is necessary to handle those responsibilities?
    1 point
  44. I’m still not seeing anything except some inartful phrasing on Bryan’s part to suggest that anything beyond Cubs is going to have a family-camping focus. The core Scouts BSA program is not changing. Besides: Most teens I know would rather lock themselves in their room for a year than go on “scheduled fun family time” with their parents and siblings.
    1 point
  45. ^This is the only relevant portion of the requirements for Eagle. Does the scout have an answer to this question? Where has he violated the oath and law that others have not? If you are interpreting this from a Christian perspective, I refer you to James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (NIV)" Is your board of review going to hold every scout to keeping the law perfectly? Are Eagles supposed to be sinless? As for the scoutmaster in your second example, I think he was in the wrong and wish the scout would
    1 point
  46. Okay - uncle. I'm not looking to criticize or stir the pot. In threads like this, it just strikes me how negative they get. That national is trying to ruin the BSA through [choose one: girls, family scouting, YPT]. Yet, when I go look I just don't see it. I push back because it saddens me for all the Scouts, Scouters, and parents who come to this forum and read post after post about how awful the BSA is. Guess I just see the future of Scouting with a more positive outlook. I guess I'll just leave it alone and go back to avoiding Issues & Politics topics.
    1 point
  47. That's good stuff. I might say that scouts become good decision makers by learning how to take responsibility for their bad decisions. This subject is not about the scouts, it's about the scouters. I have personal experience with the first scout, not the second. Ironically the 16 year old scout (my sons best friend since first grade) announced his situation to the troop at the end of a long day of his Eagle project. His parents showed up to support him, because that was probably the most difficult announcement of his life. That scout now has three kids all going to the same sch
    1 point
  48. The best leaders of all are the ones the people do not know exist. They turn to each other and say "We did it ourselves! " Sun Tzu
    1 point
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