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From the Jewish Faith: A Prayer for Yom Kippur To those I may have wronged, I ask forgiveness. To those I may have helped, I wish I had done more. To those I neglected to help, I asked for understanding. To those who helped me, I thank you with all my Heart

File under "not an insult." No program. No boys. Again not an insult. Your "job" is not to understand "really busy teens." Your job is to direct teens to associate with adults who will guide them in character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Busy does not equal fit. This, as far as I can tell, was your only mistake. You did not offend. The Guide to Advancement did. Maybe you could have apologized for not insisting that this issue remain strictly between the scout and the counselor who you (evidently) advised to give as much leeway as the requirement

I've yet to meet any parents who want what you all keep referring to as "Family Scouting." Every parent I talk with wants their kids to have a great Scouting experience - have fun, learn a lot, enjoy camping, develop some new skills. I've never met anyone who joined a Boy Scout troop so they can go on family camping trips. Those folks that want family camping go family camping.

Four days is plenty to respond with: "Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention. I will put this topic on our agenda as new business for our next committee meeting on (date/time/location). As always parents are welcome and invited to attend our commitee meetings. I hope to see you there."

I always punt my response to a face to face discussions. Email is for: sending/recieving documents setting up appointment date/time thanking someone after the meeting It is NOT for: discussions So for this situation, I would reply to the scout's email with: "I am happy to provide some guidance and clarity with the cooking merit badge process. Will you be at the next scout meeting? I will arrive 10 minutes early to give you my undivided attention. Please let me know if this works for you. I can also be available at other times if this date/time is

Yep - Had a parent e-mail about some items, several e-mails. We copied them but directed the inquiry back to the Scout. Parent was main one asking again, sent a note just to parent reminding them that the advancement is owned by the Scout, they need to drive it. We want them to copy the parents, but we want to enable the scout to handle his needs. They backed off and the Scout is doing it now.

One of my WB ticket items was to observe PLC meetings of other troops to learn and improve our meetings. One of my observations was that most troops don't teach using a meeting agenda in the PLC meetings. The adults basically threw the scouts in a room and expected a perfectly run meeting. When the SPL stumbled, usually adults jumped in and many times took over. When I researched this a little farther, I learned that the SMs didn't expect an agenda because they didn't run their own meetings with one. Now that really struck me because I've been using some form of meeting agendas ever since I ca

I agree, but that's not what the situation is. This is the parent doing all the talking for their son. Possibly the son isn't involved at all. All for talking to the son and his dad together. Parents have a right to be involved if they choose, but the broader point is, by doing it for their son, they are doing him no favors as life as a real adult looms.

I disagree a little bit on this. The fact is that for however much we may want scouts to work through us and be independent of their parents, their parents remain THE most important fact in their lives. If you have a conversation with this scout and not the parent you're just going to end up frustrating the scout, probably yourself, and the dad. You're going to put the scout in the middle of a disagreement between two adults; it shouldn't be that way but it is. Talk to the father face to face, explain your position, explain your reasoning, and then talk to the scout to be sure that he

I agree, but the stages of a mature troop aren't as systematic. I should have went into more detail, but I was just trying to get to a different point in limited time. Scouts in an experienced troop are going through the three stages all at the same time. True, they are focusing a lot on the core skills, but they are learning the skills of the other two stages simply by watching the older scouts in action. We humans instinctively learn most of our behaviors and skills by watching our role models. That is why older 15 to 17 years old are so important for a program of scouts ages 10 to 17.

I'd love an opportunity to hit that pitch. "I am a Scouting purist. Your son taking responsibility for his own needs and communicating with adult authority figures will be critical when he enters college or the workforce. I'm a purist because I want him to learn these skills now." Maybe this is why I'm not a SM or CC. My smart mouth would offend some parent and they'd pull their son out. "How dare you tell me how to raise my son!"

This is a good analogy for a new troop, but not an older troop where the older scouts are the main role models for the program. The measure of quality of a troop program is best measured by the performance of the older scouts. Since they are the role models of all the scouts, the whole program is a reflection of them. This is not a big deal with adults who understand they must change their style of guiding the program as the troop culture matures in growth. But my observation is that the majority of the troops don't recognize their need to change (or don't know how), leaving their progra

Well... That's one opinion. The Scoutmaster is in charge of the program, and the committee is in charge of the policy and the business end of troop operations. So in a case where there is a policy that does not conform to BSA advancement policy it is the place of the CC to act. Personally I would never take a week to get back to someone on this type of topic, unless I was in a coma or at a camp with no signal. It may just be "I am looking in to this" or "I will talk to the SM on this matter" but it will be something. So we just have different communication styles.

Welcome to the forums? Got any yew trees that need harvesting?

It is not your fault. All the CC had to do was shoot you a quick response saying that it would be discussed at the next committee meeting. He is at fault for remaining silent.

CC emailed me back tonight. Apparently they heard from the district. CC indicated they had already made plans to discuss this at the next committee meeting. Was not happy that I did not give them enough time to respond to my emails or that I got the district involved. I apologized for not giving him enough time to respond. I assumed the best intentions for four days but on the fifth day, I gave up and got the district involved. My fault. I will own that. CC meeting is on Tuesday. Will see how that goes. I get the sense that this policy might actually change.

I'm sorry you've had to endure this. It really is appalling that the SM and CC would persist with this errant policy even after being called out in Scouting Magazine. You obviously know your situation best, so I'll respect your decision to stay with this troop. I applaud your positive attitude and wish you and your son better luck with the new SM.

Even after the SM steps down, you will deal with the CC again as your son approaches Eagle. The CC must review, approve, and sign off (including his physical signature) on both the Eagle Scout Service Project and the Eagle Scout application. Just as now, he can be unresponsive and add more misery if he chooses. You won't be able to avoid interacting with him.

Your SM and CC won't back down. Their errant policy will eventually get fixed, but only through a long and painful process - possibly involving their departure. None of this will happen in time to benefit your son, so it seems clear that he will end up in another troop. The main questions are: Do you want to switch now or later? And do you want to scorch the earth on your way out? If me in this situation, I'd get settled on a new troop immediately. Then after your son's BSA membership and Scoutbook record are transferred over, I'd send out an email to every family in the old troop bidding

Hawkins, I have been in a situation similar to this and unfortunately I suggest you look for a new unit. You are right he is wrong yet the council or District are not often very effective in dealing with this type of matter. A lesson that I learned the hard way is just because you're right does not mean that you will win. I know a number of troops. Blakely violate advancement policies and have gotten away with it for decades. Some of the scoutmasters from these units are extremely high in the council and continue to gain influence. This is not to say that your battle was not worth it

I have to agree with @fred johnson on this. I too believe the SM is wrong on this, but @Hawkwinyou are mistaken if you think somebody will "make" the SM drop his policy. I have seen this played out numerous times, and unless there is a legitimate safety or YPT violation, nothing usually changes. Your son can ask for a BOR under disputed circumstances without the SM conference, and then have the BOR conducted by district volunteers. But what then? Unless he switches troops, he's gonna be "that Scout," and you will be "that parent" to the SM, CC and other adults. It'll be difficult for your son.

I know it's my faith, but you are there for a reason. God bless you. Reading about your gift, I reflected at a time when a scout came to a meeting late and out of uniform. We leave the uniform requirements and choices up to the scouts, but this was an unusual occurrence with the scout. So I asked him how things were going. He confessed (blurted out) that his parents just dropped him off from announcing they were getting a divorce. I knew from other life experiences that divorce ranks way up there when it comes to shock. I didn't know what to say, but I felt that he wasn't ready to join h

I believe rank patches are one of the few items that are normally NOT permitted on the back of the merit badge sash. If you must put anything besides merit badges on the back of it (a practice of which I have never been a fan), then keep it to temporary patches, not official badges of rank or office. And I will add my voice to all the others - teach them to sew and let them do it themselves. My dad does professional costuming and tailoring, but we always had to sew on our own badges - he was (and is) however kind enough to help now and then with particularly difficult patches, such as the

I wish I could upvote this more than once.

Answer: !!!!!!!!!!!! NO !!!!!!!!!!!!! He should sew his own.

I am sorry they are making him go through this. It could be so simple to just work with the scout to have the conference. sigh.

This SM is definitely adding requirements to the SMC. Depending on where the campout is, I would be tempted to find out what time he will do the SMC and then just show up for that time. Then leave from the campout. That way, it is working within the time he has made available, but not consenting to the campout as a requirement. If I'm only there for the SMC and not the campout, then I'm not paying either. I would make it clear I'm showing up for the SMC only to jump through his hoop. I understand that this may not be possible if you have a conflict. But it's not right to add a campout as

Respectfully, I disagree. The Guide to Advancement says: Policy on Unauthorized Changes to Advancement Program No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements. There are limited exceptions relating only to members with special needs. For details see section 10, “Advancement for Members With Special Needs.” Units / individuals do not have the authority to add to the requirements. This isn't just a scheduling issue if a Scout cannot attend a campout for several months and this delays his advancement. It

So hypothetically, what happens when a Scout misses their Eagle deadline by a couple of weeks or months and then in looking back through the records it is noted that a SM conference was delayed for some time because of this unusual unit policy? Seems like a position I wouldn't want to put myself in as a leader to possibly have had a hand in that. Scouts are responsible for their own timeline and keeping track of the calendar for advancement, making sure they give themselves adequate time to advance. Arbitrarily throwing in an unofficial policy that will delay advancement is not something