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Answer: !!!!!!!!!!!! NO !!!!!!!!!!!!! He should sew his own.

Vindication from Scouting Magazine. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/09/12/scoutmasters-availability-conference/ One would hope that this blog entry definitively answers the question and settles any dispute, but your Scoutmaster seems rather inflexible. I wonder if he will persist with his errant policy. It seems like the folks at Scouting Magazine must have read this entire thread because they crafted their response to this exact scenario.

I have mentioned our experience with GSUSA several times when my daughter was young. No one would accept her into a Daisy or Brownie troop in our area. Wrong school, wrong grade, not in the right clique of girls, wrong hair (not really but you get the idea). I was willing to be an adult leader and help so ratios weren't an issue. No go, no troop, but a heart broken 6 year old. One year the local council even took my membership fees for the girl and myself and kept it until the next fall then finally refunded it because we hadn't been able to join a troop. I had a kid that wanted to be a scout

If the youth is also using it as teaching moments - for example, taking the new Scout patrol to the grocery store and showing them how to shop (buying store brand versus name brand to keep budget in check, how to figure out quantity to buy, etc) that becomes an Instructor POR, and does count for rank.

I've seen this happen in menu planning for campouts, for example. The boys will choose the simplest menu items imaginable (cook hotdogs on a stick over an open fire) to minimize effort on their part. I respond to that by organizing over-the-top meals for the Dad Patrol. The boys drool with envy because the Dad Patrol is greedy and we never share food. A playful competitive spirit makes it fun, and we sometimes even taunt the boys about their hotdogs to motivate greater effort next time. But what about the scenario where the boys only vote for car camping because backpacking requires too m

Webelos covers both the Webelos and Arrow of Light Badges. I think it was a mistake to call the 5th Grade Webelos "Arrow of Light Scouts" since they are using the Webelos book still, the electives can be used for either choices, etc. This has caused some confusion, especially with newer volunteers. I had a discussion with someone on this topic. They were adamant about 4th graders not working on AOL requirements until summer. When I asked, What about LDS Webelos workingon both atthe same time, they were dumbfounded.

Ask your son what he wants to do with them. 😉

I can't claim perfection, but our troop definitely attempts to use the Patrol Method. This weekend, our troop is doing beach camping at a location voted on by the boys during the annual planning meeting led by the SPL. Adults made the actual campsite reservation because that requires a credit card and coordination with a private business. We are taking three boy patrols on the campout with each patrol doing their own menu planning and cooking. Adults will be cooking/eating separately as the Dad Patrol. The organization of menus and camping equipment assignments has been led by either the

Welcome! When I was asked to serve as a PA, I told the PL, "I'll be on the opposite side of the room ignoring you. Come to me if you need advice." He did once or twice that year. If this is really discouraging to your son, he should talk to the SPL, or even the SM about switching patrols. It could also be that he is a good teacher, and the PA is nudging him to take more of a role managing the patrol. As a parent, it's really hard to tell the difference. But, if you think this patrol is indeed being treated like a den (e.g., no effective PL/APL, no flag, no yell, the bo

Over 20,000 new girl Cub Scouts registered nationally as of Friday 9/7. 7,000+ are Webelos.

I know that Eagledad and Malraux just commented in another thread about local elementary-age GS troops in their towns falling apart. I've seen it in my town, too. Way too often. I went to our service unit meeting last night. (For you BSA people, that is a meeting of any and all interested girl scout leaders and girl scout parents in the school district. Mostly leaders but a couple of parents.) There was a kindergarten parent there asking about formation of a kindergarten Daisy troop. And it was explained how we do it. One of the service unit volunteers (a leader of an older-g

Yep. Choice of words and specifics often changes the answer.

I think the same idea can be used albeit much heavier lift. I often share with my scouts the adventures beyond the car. Photos and stories go a long way. Another is to find a really cool spot when day tripping from the car camp. The hidden campsite off trail near a waterfall for example. Then the idea of camping at these other locations becomes the goal. Instead of looking at the question as car camp vs backpacking, instead it becomes "destination". Then how do we get to that cool spot might require backpacking or paddling. Another idea is to go with another dad and his son (the 4 o

PA ... Patrol advisers scare me. It enables adults to behave as den leaders and creates a perception that patrols need adult mentoring. Further, it subverts the PL, ASPL, SPL and SM. The right context is the adults are on the other side of the room and ALWAYS coordinate through the SM. The SM ALWAYS coordinates through the SPL. This is the ideal that we constantly adjust for the situation and the scouts. GM ??? ... Game master ? I'm not sure what a GM is. It's not a position that qualifies for rank advancement. But then again, he doesn't need a position until he's first class an

A GSUSA Troop that lasts longer than the school terms of the girls (first thru twelveth grade ?) is a rare beast. Such a thing depends on the Troop leaders and is , as has been noted, discouraged STRONGLY by the GSUSA. In my experience, such Troops exist longer than 12 years because of two things: one, the lady leaders (again, men are discouraged from helping, but the Dads do in these GSTroops) really believe in Scouting and take the girls OUTSIDE often. They have seen the benefit, have had the experience themselves. There is an effort to hike, climb, backpack etc. and two, the lady l

fingers crossed for you.

""It is easier to go down a hill than up it, but the view is much better at the top."" = Henry Ward Beecher =

I wish I could upvote this more than once.

I’ll talk to two experiences I have had with GSUSA. My daughters Troop is massive 40 Scouts in 1st grade. They meet monthly with 1 or 2 activities a year outside those meetings. The meetings are right after school and primary involve crafts or cookie sales. She found the meetings to be ok. She did love the GSUSA summer camps ... they exceeded the quality of the BSA summer camps. The fourth grade girls that disbanded. The leaders were burnt out and overall they felt the program was boring. During our JSN we did water rockets with the kids. One of the girls shouted out to a quiet

They did, I sent it to them! Not only was the question answered, it was answered in a way that was artful, professional, and real world (without being specific my case). Color me very impressed.

@cocomax makes a good point. I think we should rename Patrol Method with Scout Ownership. If they want to own it then the patrol method enables them. If they don't want to own it then patrol method will not encourage leadership. One thing that really gets in the way of ownership is what @SSScout mentioned recently about planning (something about failing to plan is a plan for failure). Planning is nitty gritty work that involves thinking of all the details. It's a grind for the scouts. Coming up with the idea is much easier than making it happen. Again, I'd rather see more support for adul

He did his BOR and received he 2n class. He had a conversation with the SPL and he is now set to be the GM. Thanks for the advise, he was able to handle it all on his own. I am an adult leader and got to do my first BOR, 4 to be exact. We had 5 scouts up for BOR, 2 tenderfoot, a 1st class, star, and my son 2nd class.

With Dad's generous purchase of one bale of hay and a nice poster/target, I mastered archery in our back yard next to the woods between summer camps on a 25# wood bow that my brother had left in the basement rafters. (Best part of growing up: being tall enough to find stuff the rest of your family left in rafters.) That also included making/remaking bow string, fletching old arrows, learning the warp of an arrow and adjusting aim accordingly. It was the year my 100 year old grandpa moved in, and after I made a run to the general store to buy his Marsh Wheeling cigars, he would sit out and wat

If I had a dime for every....... Let me just warn you that the real problem is on the other side of the hill, WEBELOS. As I've said, I've worked this issue many times and my first point is that each situation is different because the complexities of the adults involved are different. So, you have to be creative. And remember, you aren't just looking for a Bear leader, you are looking for a Webelos program leader. Do you have another Den of Bears. How solid is that den? Are their any adults over there to consider? Consider combining Dens. The logistics are more difficult,

Weirdly, we have the same situation; the 4th and 2nd grade GSUSA troops folded so several of those girls transferred over.

To be clear, the fourth grade GSUSA Troop at our school fell apart... which is why we see so many from that grade in our Pack.

I'm tempted to email and ask how they determined that people become untrustworthy after 72 hours but are fine before that. Also, how is their trustworthiness restored when a new scout year starts.

Just had our Join Scouts Night. Looks like we will be adding 7 - 10 more girls to our pack for a total of 17 - 20 out of roughly 90. It varies greatly by age with 0 5th graders but 9 4th graders. The GSUSA Troop at that grade fell apart and many of them joined Cub Scouts. Most of the girls joining do not have brothers in the Pack. Roughly 50% of the new Scouts joining our pack are girls and our total Pack size will be at its highest it’s been in 10+ years.

When I have to update my training, I have had my sons sit with me and go through it too - safe swim, weather, climb-on, trek, etc. I added youth protection to their mix as well. I wanted them to hear from the BSA why we do things the way we do, and then we had some great conversations as well. Some of this is tough for many parents to discuss with their kids, and doing the videos together can help open up conversations. My two cent.

I suggest he talk to the SPL and perhaps you may want to talk to PA or SM if this is discouraging your son. Even if they are focusing on Tenderfoot requirements someone has to cook. So I see no reason why they wouldn't jump on the chance for someone to cover that duty. There IS far more to scouting than advancement. But if he looses his enthusiasm and drive then the troop has failed him.

I still reccomend handing a quick sheet to the older scouts that show no interest in taking YPT so they have at least a little knowledge about it.

The standard I was taught and used was while at the level they are at. So Something done as a Wolf, would not count. But something done as a first year Webelos, aka 4th grade Webelos aka Webelos 1 can count towards it since Webelos is 18-24 months normally. LDS units compress that into 12 months

We had a scout with similar concerns. I’m not sure if he was autistic, but he was certainly quirky. Once he learned he could skip the ECOH, he took off. But he kept it very quiet. None of the scouts and only a couple of adults knew he earned it. The SM was invited to a small family only reception at their home. Barry

I have a Scout in my troop who has mild autism. He is a great Scout but resisted the idea of attaining Eagle until I explained that he didn’t need to have an ECOH if he didn’t want one. I jokingly told him I could just send his badge in the mail. With the pressure removed of being in the public spotlight for an ECOH, he has now caught fire and is marching steadily forward in a very determined fashion. The whole troop loves this Scout with all his fun quirks.

I think the patrol method is a vanishing concept. I can't remember the last time I've seen a troop even attempt to use it. The patrols are just on paper. The adults organize everything.

Um, actually, the patrol method (and the most ancient definition of scouting ... c.f. the twelve Israelite spies in Canaan) implies action in the complete absence -- yet under the command -- of the principal. And, it will happen. It does happen. With or without BSA or LDS Young Men or any other youth-facing organizations. Sometimes it will be an innocent group of kids who just wanna fish on the far corner of grandpas farm. Other times it will be a street gang in a brutal turf war. Faced with the latter worst-case scenario, isn't it better that the would-be gang work on acquiring ideals an

which my scouts are planning to totally ignore. I am planning on going temporarily deaf whenever they are discussing any such activities. I don't like flouting rules, but it's the best option I have at this point. The patrol method may indeed be dying, but not on my watch

If the premier training of the BSA, the mountain top experience for adults, uses the term "ADULT LED, YOUTH RUN" in it A) whoever came up with the WB21C course was never a Scout as a youth and has no idea about the program DESPITE their credentials and B) It explains a lot of the problems I am seeing with units, even ones with WBers. Why can't people today understand the simple concept of "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" ? Why does our society want to treat teenagers and young adults under 26 like children?

Totally anecdotal, but that's pretty consistent with my pack's experience. We're having pretty good recruitment numbers, still trying to pin down if any kids aren't coming back.

Ah, I see. The only folks who could possibly support a Scouting program tailored for the unique needs of boys are rich and powerful men who want to preserve a right to "locker-room" talk. You forgot to mention privilege, patriarchy, and toxic masculinity in your argument. I'm glad to understand the color of your glasses. You are deluded if you do not believe that boys behave differently than girls and develop differently than girls - especially at these ages. A "mere" 5-9 point disparity in college enrollment is only one of many symptoms of the failure of boys in our society. By your

Thank you @DeanRx I regret my assault on Surbaugh being a liar only because it diverted discussion away from my main point - that boys have now lost one of the few remaining programs tailored specifically for their needs. Schools judge boy behavior by the girl standard. Boys are treated like defective girls. Result: Boys earn lower grades, fewer honors, and are far less likely to go to college. Boys account for 70 percent of school suspensions. If these statistics applied to girls it would be seen as a societal crisis, but nobody cares because it is boys. With boys dropping out and g

I think the phrase “conditional Scouter” needs to be consigned to the ash-heap of history. And any professional Scouter who thinks it’s a good idea to insult the volunteers needs to be terminated.

Perhaps a "Conditional" shirt sleeve strip like "Trained"?

@gblotter you are looking through the world with mud-colored glasses. Let's try to balance your bleak outlook: I don't know about where you live, but around here black males account for a disproportionate number of the school suspensions. There is no talk that they need their own white-free space so that they don't have to be judged according to a standard of "white boy behavior". Nor should there be talk of it. Nor talk of a "girl behavior" standard. It just makes no sense (except for deluded rich and powerful men who think they have a right to "locker-room" talk). College enrollmen