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IMO, every scout a swimmer should be program. Fix the problem, get it done (yes it is hard), and done right. My younger son nearly drowned at a pool (not BSA). He was underwater in the unmarked deep end of a new pool when rescued. I wasn't there for him (Dad wasn't there). Years of anxiety therapy ($$$) were needed before he would go near the water to just fish. He would take a bath but not a shower as he became terrified if his face got wet. We tried private swim instruction - myself, his older brother who was on a swim team, BSA, Red Cross, and the Y swim instructors without success.

UPDATE: Guideline has been rescinded. BB Guns memo from A. Lambert 8-11-18.pdf Text is following August 11, 2018 Colleagues, It has come to our attention that a recent program change is causing some distress in the field. You are aware that this past May, a joint group of well-meaning volunteers and professionals recommended a change to the age-appropriate guidelines for shooting sports related to Tigers in Cub Scouts. Prior to this change, the use of BB guns was approved for use by councils or districts at their discretion, starting with Tigers. The change sh

I was talking with some friends last night and one recounted a story of a near drowning on a Girl Scout outing. I am sharing this only to emphasize why the BSA's (is that still the right abbreviation?) Safe Swim Defense guidelines are important and useful. Girl Scout overnighter at a campground, note, not a scout camp Most parents not on trip Pool with no lifeguards No one really supervising No swim test Do you see where this is going? My friend who is a lifeguard and swim instructor decided to rent a cabin at the campground and take the rest of her family.

Not only as a former lifeguard and lifeguard instructor, but also as a drowning survivor, I AM APPALLED BY THE WAY THIS TROOP IS HANDLING THE SITUATION! I drowned as a kid and had was resuscitated. I was terrified of swimming for years after that. Scouting is what forced me to face my fears, and overcome them. I was 12 years old before I was finally able to pass a swim test and earn First Class. And I am so glad I did. Not only was I able to advance, I was able to do some great adventures. All three of my 50 milers have been afloat, either canoe or sailboat. I developed a love of the water tha

Knowing how to swim is integral to advancement, it is also about providing a safe aquatics environment. Yes, you should say something, kids are being put at risk if they are doing other aquatics activities without knowing their abilities. A safety moment on why it's important to do aquatics in Scouting following safety afloat and safe swim defense: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-055(17)_Aquatics_WEB.pdf Incidents that really happened: Swimming- https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-056.pdf Boating and Paddling - htt

Correct, as the point many (oh so many) miss, it is not the destination, but the journey that makes the Scouting program valuable. Just looking at swimming; there is the practical side and then the growth side. On the practical side, if you look at deaths among teenagers, about 50% are unintentional injuries. Of those about 73% are vehicle, but drownings are 5% of those. There is a real value in knowing how to swim, you may not drown. Also in swimming MB and sessions a youth may actually get some knowledge on how to swim safely, maybe help a friend at some point On the growth sid

I would argue that you didn't invest spend money for a requirement. You invested in your scout learning to swim. This is also a break-down of the patrol method. The PL, with guidance of leaders in the troop should have made it a priority to help their buddy master those skills. But back to the OP ... it astounds me that someone thinks it's more important to placate parents by saying falsely that his scouts are first class. There's no shame in having a troop full of tenderfoot scouts. @ScoutTrainer, get in touch with your district advancement chair. I disagree with @walk in the woods

As a family of lifeguards and swim teachers, I am very concerned about aquatics safety. Does the committee chair know about this? If he does and doesn't care, I would call the District Commissioner and express your concerns.

Understood. I was really responding to the post right above mine, which seems to say that the parents in the pack can vote and replace the Committee Chair. That isn't the way it works. Redman's pack is in a tough spot.

It is the Chartered Org. Rep's job to "hire and fire" adult leaders in a unit (pack, troop, etc). If there is a problem with the Committee Chair, and you've already tried talking to her about it, then the next step would be to talk to the Chartered Org. Rep. The unit "belongs" to the charter organization.

Easily understood. Your words were very understandable. I'm just sensitive to the point.

Point taken. Poor choice of words on my part. Thank you.

Just for clarity, I believe the swimming requirements are a net asset to advancement. Like @thrifty I spent a bunch of money on rec center memberships and private swimming lessons for my son with autism so he could learn to swim. We also endured the pain and struggle that his autism caused in the process (we starting with splashing water on his face because he couldn't bear the sensation of it). I have very old and faded swimming, lifesaving, and mile swim badges in a box somewhere. But, that has no bearing on my response to the OP. Call me a cynic but we all know that as long as the

Exactly why skipping this particular requirement can have unintended and deadly consequences. I took longer than expected to reach First Class, precisely because when younger we did not live near enough to a pool to learn to swim. If it had not been a BSA requirement, I would never have bothered to learn; however, it was, and while it took a while, I did learn. I also earned my Eagle when there were not alternates to swimming or lifesaving merit badges. While I have never had to perform a water rescue, I firmly believe every Scout should know what to do in and around water.

I was there at the spring pilot course at Philmont, as a student. Here is what I recall: B & G + crossover at Lunch Day 1 I was told more topics taught by troop guide Ticket ideas due Day 2 EOD (9PM), Completed tickets turned in Day 3 EOD, Approved tickets returned Day 4. No other homework or late-nighters. Patrol Project was a 7-10 minute on what we got out the course. No PPTs. Day 5 in AM. It took us about 45 minutes to put it together taking and white boarding. Students politely challenged the lectures on occasions for the better. 5-hr outdoor segme

Great news! Now let's get these well meaning individuals to see the light on wagons and wheel barrows!

I have mixed feelings about bringing in girls early and going coed. I think that following the rules of separate troops and dens is good. I think giving girls experiences is also good. When you decide to skip the rules it gets a little confusing to go on your own. I think it's interesting that this CO said, "push the boundaries". I wonder what kind of CO would do that? I guessed this was in California, but it's in Minnesota, which is too close to home for me! If I had daughters, I think I would want my daughters in a troop that follows the program. Because if a CO is winging

@oldbuzzard If your troop and pack are determined to ignore BSA rules about girl membership, why not just buy a bunch of Eagle Scout awards on eBay and hand them out to any girl who wants them? Who cares if the girls meet the requirements - just do whatever you want (sounds like that's how you roll anyway, right?).

Our troop has a "patrol" of girls at summer camp for the past 2 weeks. We run our own camp with usually one other troop. We've regularly had 1 or 2 associated Venture crews that are majority female doing all camp activities . Our girl patrol sent in registrations as Scouts which were rejected. We refused to take the apps back. I *think* council converted them to Venture apps and we refused to take the cards. Anyway, all the females are over 14 but we invited younger girls and would have allowed them if they wanted to attend. This is the female scouts' first troop activity, some of them did a e

Agreed, not funny at all. If the facts are as described, this person could have gained access to paper files, computer systems, and a whole lot more. On applications alone, there is someone's SSN, DOB, address, phone numbers, employer’s name, occupation - almost everything needed to steal an identity or commit fraud. The Council should be issuing an immediate apology and explanation to its volunteers and members on its failure to safeguard their information.

I hold to the idea that if an activity is done outside, it's an 'outdoor activity,' and if it's some kind of athletic event, it's an 'outdoor sporting event.' Why try and complicate it? So yes, absolutely, any activity they play at Cub Camp can count towards this requirement. If they play, even for a few minutes, they did it. Simple and easy! I feel the reason it seems vague is to make sure people don't get too hung up over what does or doesn't "count," and focus more on getting the boys to be active outdoors. Especially in the summertime when it stays light longer into the evening, I mak

This year, in my Tiger Den, I had a kid who was pretty awkward. His den mates were fine, but I knew he was having a few issues with other kids. I pulled them aside (both were Bears) and told them I’d heard some dreadful news! Someone was picking on one of my Tigers! I played it up, said I came to them because they were so responsible, etc. Asked them to be my “bully patrol”, and we practiced the way they would discreetly come and find me if there were any problems. Lo and behold, the bullying stopped. The trouble is, though, that takes the leaders buy in. I’d say, as a teacher, I w

Never be afraid to shop around. Also never be afraid to and try your best at keeping your eyes open at self examination. Sometimes it's the unit. Units are good fits for some folks and bad fits for others. Sometimes it's us. We're too "us" and we need to change what we're doing. But again, it never hurts to see what other units are around. And even though I hate the thought of a kid leaving scouts, sometimes you need a break. I would rather someone take a year off then get frustrated to the point where they don't ever want to be a part of it again. People try to give the impr

"Randy Woo (Randy Worchester) provided some information about the history of this special garment: According to several of the Philmont histories, the jac-shirt began with Dr. E. K. Fretwell, the Chief Scout Executive in Philmont's early days. In 1944, he brought up the idea of an outdoorsman shirt. He later sent a red shirt to Minor Huffman, Philmont's first General Manager. Fretwell had Huffman trace the bull in the tile at one of the entrances to Philmont for a patch for the red shirt. The first few shirts were made by J.A. Brewster of Camden, Maine. In August, 1946, Fretwell gave each

I am referring to all Cub leaders - that includes pack committee members, Cubmasters, Asst. Cubmasters, as well as Den leaders. Many packs I know are 40+, if not 60+ boys & families. Organizing a pack is a lot of work. However, since you mention den leaders, let's look at that. One of my den leaders plans our B&G banquet. It's a feast for 200 people with catered food, program, activities, etc. It requires coordinating amongst numerous adults, leaders, and dens. Several other den leaders plan portions of our campouts for 150 people. The Webelos den leaders coordinate joint act

Our chartering church has experience fighting with National. Our home family church is the same denomination. We have had gay/trans leaders and scouts forever. We opted out of the gay ban and were a major force pushing our council to also opt out of the gay ban. For that I am grateful. My wife's church in NH just dropped their BSA charter. Our early 2000's outdoorsy church in Seattle had no scouts since 2 of our 4 ministers would be banned from contact with scouts for being gay. I am glad some liberal churches pushed through that culture war to allow a more inclusive movement.. But non