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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/11/18 in all areas

  1. 1 point
    I love this kid! Can we please clone him? When will we scouters learn that our job is provisioning lunch/tent/ignition/construction/craft/soldering/chemistry kits in the process of making good on the promise of scouting, and the scout's job is cashing in on that promise and chasing blue cards and signatures in his/her own good time?
  2. 1 point
    Moving this to the advancement forum
  3. 1 point
    I have to agree with most on this subject. To say that the new scripts form National are ‘rather lame’ would indeed be a kindness. Any Scouts can perform these as written; there is absolutely no need for the OA to do these. The Crossover is essentially an infomercial/promo on high adventure camps that are so cost-prohibitive, most Scouts will never be able to afford to go. There are plenty of AOL/Crossover scripts out there on the internet that incorporate Native American themes. A Pack may choose to do any one of these. Most OA Crossover/AOL ceremonies, however, are written by the Chapters. We have/had a combined Crossover/AOL ceremony that was based on many of the local American Indian traditions including traditional songs, storytelling, honoring the parents, and a give-away. Our regalia was carefully researched and we even used a few words and phrases from our state’s original language in the ceremony. When a Pack requested our Chapter to do their Crossover/AOL, they got our ceremony – i.e. we essentially only do our ceremony, but if there are particular elements they’d like incorporated, we were usually able to work it in. Our Lodge has even been involved with sponsoring a pow-wow at which we would teach Native crafts to kids all morning while adults were preparing themselves for the Grand Entry. As many have said, if carefully researched and done correctly, it can provide for a very impressive experience for the Webelos (and observing Pack). That said, it just takes a few ‘bad apples’ to ruin it for the rest. I would be very curious to know exactly what the complaints were that they got from American Indian groups/Nations/Tribes(?) which prompted the drastic change in policy. I suspect that will never become “public information”. As to inconsistencies, see above – there are hundreds of such ceremonies; it is a rare thing to see any two Packs having the same ceremony (at least in my neck of the woods). I don’t see the issue here. It was always my understanding that, as far as the black robes are concerned, those were worn by attending spectators (Arrowmen) at the ceremonies whilst the Principals wore regalia. As a note – if native dress has been handmade, or even bought (providing it’s properly made and bought from a reputable establishment), it is never referred to as a ‘costume’; it’s either ‘native dress’ or ‘regalia’. To refer to it as such is considered insulting. I have to wonder if this is just a one-time thing, i.e. complaints with Crossover/AOL ceremonies from a particular American Indian group targeted at a specific Lodge/Chapter, and as a result Crossover/AOL ceremonies got revamped for everyone, or is this the beginning of phasing out the American Indian element of the OA? That’s a phenomenal amount of symbolism that will need to be reworked into new ceremonies and traditions (WWW, admonition, vigil names, lodge names, induction ceremonies, just to name a few). Someone had mentioned Chapters starting a “hire-out” type group as a sort of loophole around the rule. A group of youth who do Crossover/AOL ceremonies using American Indian symbolism, etc. Pretty much business as usual but “sans sash”. These groups would wear regalia and would not have or make any references to the OA, i.e. “Standing Bear Productions, LLC” as an official name of such an entity. Interesting idea, but not sure it would fly if the same mistakes are made that initiated the initial complaints in the first place. It also begs the question of whether Packs will be permitted to make any reference to American Indians in any of their ceremonies. As having A/I ancestry, I don’t have any issues with Chapters using regalia, etc. so long as it’s done correctly and with respect to the culture and people being emulated. That said, I have seen ceremonies plastered on YouTube that are just cringeworthy. I did not attend NOAC but would be interested to hear if this recent change was addressed and to what extent.
  4. 1 point
    ....or sitting on the roof of my RV with my coffee watching the sunrise hot air balloon launch drift over the campground.... or later in the day sitting in that same spot with my favorite beverage and a snack, watching the Blue Angles pull a 6-8G turn just a few hundred feet directly over my head those were both memories from my trip to Sun n Fun earlier this year, not Air Venture but close..... and would be even sweeter sitting around a camp site with friends ...now that I'm thinking about it, I've seen a few troops camping at Sun n Fun. One was near to my RV spot this year...but I didn't take note of if they were getting around this issue... oh wait, never mind...that one was a cub pack / family camping.... but there was a troop there too someplace... I saw the scouts roaming about.
  5. 1 point
    Because, DOD, that's what the BSA Uniform and Insignia guide states. Your proper "Class A" uniform already includes your lodge flap (indicating you are an active lodge member with paid up dues) and the OA pocket dangle (aka, "pocket rocket"), indicating your national OA membership. Why in the world do you need yet another doo-dad indicating your Arrowman status? The guidelines state that the sash is to be worn only at OA functions or when representing the OA, such as when serving as a member of an election team. As a "loyal" member of the BSA, you should send your suggestion to National in a letter recommending the change. But until the policy is changed, you should set the example and wear the uniform correctly. That's what real Arrowmen do as part of those "weighty responsibilities."
  6. 1 point
    jpstodwftexas, I know the rules. You don't need to spell them out to me. You were right regarding the made up rule, and that's fine. My question to you is this: When you find out the proper way to wear a sash, will you follow the rules, or will you cling to something you heard from whenever/wherever/whyever before? BDPT00
  7. 1 point
    BadenP You are one of the most unscoutlike people I have run across on this forum. I could care less that you used to be a DE which you like to throw around a lot on these forums, and I do not care about your name dropping either (i.e., I used to work for the CSE). Your personal attacks are not necessary or appreciated. You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. By the way what does the OA stand for if it does not stand for humble cheerful service done with your fellow Arrowmen? If it matters, I am a district level Scouter that is well respected within the district. I am an Eagle Scout as well as a Vigil Honor member of the OA (1983-I would not have even brought this up but for BPowells disrespectful and unneeded posting). I am going to choose to ignore any further comment by him because obviously he chooses to ignore the Scout Law (friendly, courteous and kind). Some choose to think that marketing and PR is more important than the ideals of the order. To paraphrase E. Urner Goodman, OA is a thing of the Spirit. Just, follow the attached link from the official OA website. It will tell you when the wearing of the sash is appropriate. As I said this has not changed since at least the '80s. I cannot speak of before that. http://www.oabsa.org/features/chairman/answer9.htm (This message has been edited by johnponz)(This message has been edited by johnponz)
  8. 1 point
    Sorry, the practice of wearing the sash on the belt was not allowed in the '80s either. There are always a few rogue lodges that continue to practice "traditions" that are not allowed under the rules. I know that it was not allowed because I attended the National Leadership Seminar in 1981, and it was specifically mentioned that the sash is only allowed to be worn over the right should and is not allowed on the belt. Guess what, the same rules regarding when to wear the sash was also in effect. It was to be worn only when providing service as an arrowman or at OA events. Now for opinion, OA membership is not something that one should "brag" or "show off." Those around you should know you are a member not because of some outward sign, but because of the cheerful service that you give. This is a good lesson for the Scouts who are in the OA. The sash does not matter, it is your attitude while providing service. If the OA dies, but does so while the members are trying to live up to its ideals so be it. Better to have a dead OA than one that is a shell with no adherence to it ideals. Members of the OA have a tradition of giving quiet cheerful service in the background, and that is the way it should continue. What we are trying to teach is that there is value and good feelings that come with providing the service. This requires no outward sign. All who see you should recognize your membership based on your actions. (This message has been edited by johnponz)
  9. 1 point
    Okay folks, consider this analogy. I think Wood Badge is a great training experience and has many other benefits as well. I feel I should promote it and therefore wear my "critter" regalia, neckerchief, beads, etc. to every Scouting event I attend. What is the reaction I get? Well, some folks are curious and ask about it. Some, usually fellow Wood Badgers may ask if I attended "real" or 21st Century Wood Badge. A large percentage don't say anything to me but respond to their peers or think to themselves - what a showoff, does he think he is better than us? To me the OA is a service organization primarily, not an honorary society. FYI, from the Order of the Arrow Chair himself Ask the Chairman Q. When should the OA sash be worn? A. Your OA sash, wear it at OA events and when you represent the OA, over the right shoulder, never over the belt. The Order of the Arrow Sash is the outward manifestation of the OA founding ideals: Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service. The rule of thumb is its appropriate to wear the sash is when you are doing official Order of the Arrow business or attend an Order of the Arrow ceremony. We wear the sash as a symbol of an ideal, it is not a rank, and it is not an item to "show off" your honor. Examples of inappropriate times to wear the OA sash: Troop Meetings Campouts Courts of Honor Trainings such as NYLT, Woodbadge, Den Chief Training, IOLS, BALOO FOS Presentations The only acceptation to these is you are representing the Order of the Arrow in an Official capacity. Examples of appropriate times to wear the OA sash: Unit Election Lodge Fellowship Chapter Meeting Lodge Meeting Winter Banquet Section Conclave OA Training Event The OA sash should always be worn over the right shoulder; it is not appropriate to wear the sash on your belt, as a neck tie, as a head band, or at the same time as a merit badge sash.
  10. 1 point
    It's amazing the kind of nerves you'll touch when you just reach out! Whenever you read a negative in guide, remember that it got there because someone somewhere saw something, asked for a ruling, and got it! I'd like to think that for the sash issue, the main concern was that the on-the-belt fashion would cause the insignia to be hidden when it could be displayed more prominently. I'd like to hope that those folks were not feeling that the style was being disrespectful to the organization. In any case, how *you* decide to spin these things to the boys is very important. You shouldn't just parrot the rule and don't give any notion of why it makes sense to you. Neither should you say "that's what the guide said, but, you know, rules are meant to be broken." Rules should make sense, and in this case "increasing visibility of our arrowmen" makes more sense than saying "we don't want to be disrespectful." But, you gotta respect the fact that boys who were selected to this order wouldn't be the type who simply choose a non-compliant style of uniforming unless there was some sense in doing so. But, that does beg the question of when lodge members should be visible and when they should "blend in." (Or rather, only be visible via cheerful disposition and servant leadership.) Also, it begs the question of what can you do to make the lodge flap catch the eye when a boy isn't sporting a sash?
  11. 1 point
    "You three may think you have the best interest of the OA at heart but your arguments are outdated, counterproductive, and somewhat anal retentive. WWW " I'm simply speaking to proper wearing of insignia which includes the OA Sash. If we want to argue the merits of the OA program, what it could be doing better, what it should be doing, or if it should be dissolved, those conversations can be reserved for the OA forum.
  12. 1 point
    "Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right. Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple. " It's nice to know that another Arrowman sees it like I do. The uniforming guidelines for the OA Sash are straigtforward requiring no interpretation. Thanks for mentioning the OA pocket flap - I'm a big stickler of that one and agree that it should not be worn if you will not pay the meager annual dues.
  13. 1 point
    BadenP - my answer was simplistic because the answer is simple. I'm troubled by the all too familiar Scouter.com post that goes something like this: The BSA states that A but I've witnessed B. Does your council/district/troop do B? Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right. Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple.
  14. 1 point
    The best way to promote the OA is not in having OA members just wear their sashes at other events. Its by having the OA DOING stuff at those other events, and wearing the sash while they do it. Have them be staff at camporees and cub scout events and the like. Have them have a nice exhibit/activity at the Scout Show. The point I was trying to make was that only those DOING stuff as an arrowman should be wearing the sash, not everyone.
  15. 1 point
    Blue jeans seems to be the norm around here. Same difference. Everyone has their own idea of what "uniform" means and it usually doesn't really mean "uniform" at all. Stosh
  16. 1 point
    I don't have it in front of me but I believe you can find the rationale in the OA Handbook which spells out that the OA Sash is to be worn only at OA functions, or, if worn to other functions, when serving as a member of the OA. It is not meant to be worn at Troop meetings, including the COH, it is not meant to be worn at Summer Camp (unless it's worn to an OA function like a call-out ceremony), it is not meant to be worn on a campout, or Scout Sunday, or community flag raising or- well, anything that isn't an OA function or where you aren't representing the OA. When to wear it? OA Ordeal/Brotherhood/Work Weekends, OA Banquet, Chapter Meetings, Lodge Meetings, OA Ceremonies, OA Elections (the election team should be wearing their sashes and I wouldn't find fault if the OA members in the unit wore their sashes for that meeting), Webelos Cross-over Ceremonies (if the OA is doing the ceremony - with one caveat, the ceremony folks from the OA should be wearing the sashes, the receiving unit's SPL & SM, and the sending units CM & WDL (if members) should not since they aren't actually representing the OA), and anytime one is representing the OA. For instance, your Troop's OA Representative (if you have one), may do a camp promotion at a COH (what? You mean you've never thought of having your OA Representative do the camp promotion at a COH? Why, that's one of the things the OA does!) and he should wear the sash while doing so - but none of the other OA members of the Troop should be wearing their sashes, and since they have no reason to be wearing the sash, why do they have it with them? I'm not a big fan of the sash being worn over the belt, but I'll admit I've done it, as have a lot of folks I know, when attending a function wearing a couple of different hats - I would tend to give a lot of leeway to a member wearing the sash over the belt until they performed in their OA role then putting it back over the belt when done with that role. Wearing it over a merit badge sash? Well, that's just plain bad fashion sense.