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Showing content with the highest reputation on 06/18/18 in all areas

  1. There is this weird thing I try to hold on to, it's called reality, and it is not dependent upon where I am be it a scout meeting, home or church. " judge"? where did that come into it? I am not judging, I just don't agree. These people have a condition ( I hope thats a non offensive term) that I wish them all the luck in the word with, however they may wish to deal with it. Just don't demand that I pretend that what is male is actually female or the other way around
    3 points
  2. I am supposed to suspend my belief in basic biology and go along with someones totally subjective feelings about what gender they are?
    3 points
  3. Welcome to 2018. You may not want to have to deal with it, but it's just part of contemporary society. The BSA didn't get to decide if this would be a topic any more than you or I - they just got to decide how the group would respond. The BSA is pretty late to the game, but they've done what just about every other group that deals with kids has. In any issue like this - there are those out in front of it, those that follow along, and those that get dragged to it. The BSA was absolutely not a leader here - it is just following along. I am sympathetic that you're getting dragged
    3 points
  4. Is it possible to quantify this a bit? How often does a scout get permanent damage on a hike from mishandling a first aid situation? How often does a parent know enough to make a difference in such a situation? What training does an adult need to make a difference in such a situation and how many adults have that training? Standard first aid assumes there's an ambulance 5 minutes away. First aid MB is mostly a joke. If it weren't then I wouldn't have to renew my first aid in a week from now. Wilderness first aid touches on more issues. So how many adults have taken wilderness first aid and how
    3 points
  5. Mercy. It's that kind of ideology that breaks my heart; gender is NOT "fluid" yet society is becoming increasingly hostile towards those who still recognize this, while trying to force this suggestion on increasingly younger age groups. I was told at one preschool - preschool, mind you! - that as a teacher I could not "assume that all boys will grow up to be men, nor that all girls would grow up to be women," and my language in the classroom was supposed to reflect what they called a "non-gender bias." Of course I totally ignored that policy, and spoke against it whenever I could and to whomev
    3 points
  6. I haven't been around the forums for about a year. I was too busy with the Troop, the Crew, raising a son and working a paying job in between all of that. I also figured there would be a lot of drama with all of the changes in the BSA program. I came back yesterday only to realize that, according to most of the threads and posts on the forum, THE SKY IS FALLING, SCOUTING IS DOOMED and everyone is RUNNING, not walking, FOR THE EXITS. Just WOW. Former House Speaker Tip O'Neal would say that all politics are local, I would say all Scouting is local. Scouting is thriving where I am
    2 points
  7. It's the tone of the way people refer to it here. Such as: On the surface it seems innocuous enough. But, it leads me to be concerned that folks will treat transgender kids as an oddity or even . This topic is full of comments about how they don't think transgender kids are "normal". I'm an optimist, bu t it's hard to trust that all the folks who commented here are going to warmly embrace a transgender scout in their troops.
    2 points
  8. thank you. I think we may just be arguing two different although related things here. I am going to try to saw this with as few details as possible, I sat on a trans scouts BoR last a little while ago. the question of gender identity never came up, National has deemed it a nonissue so insofar as passing a rank it shouldn't. Nor should it be one when joining , if the CO is fine with it. Do I think she is a he? No. How does that offend ? What does offend me is being told that I must be affirming, supportive ,and even encouraging towards something that i
    2 points
  9. I’m not telling anyone they should do anything except act like a Scout. But if you believe the program and the membership standards are the equivalent of child abuse, then perhaps it’s not the right fit for you.
    2 points
  10. No, I wouldn't. I don't go out of my way to insult people. But if a girl (or her parent) goes out of her way to approach me to insist that she is a boy, then yes, I would tell her to her face that she is wrong. She is a girl.
    2 points
  11. Let's pull the reigns in on the runaway horse ... Woaaah, we can ill-afford to dismiss volunteers because they don't accept a cultural paradigm. What's more important? To be called gender dysphoric yet accepted, or to have PC terms used about you and treated with disdain behind your back? I'm sorry, but in my troop/crew cards get put on the table. Sometimes challenging is a form of support. Most of you all do is force scouts to face harsh realities and use that to build a youth's character. The bottom line: until you meet one of these kids, you really can only deal
    2 points
  12. And you don't see this as a risk of abuse! Who decides gender identity, the parents or the youth? Do you not see yourself making my point of the BSA excusing abuse? Barry
    2 points
  13. You accept them for something that they are not, correct? I'm sorry, but to call yourself a boy does not actually make you a boy.
    2 points
  14. Support! No, I think you mean respect. A person can still be respected without supporting their behavior. Respect and support are quite different. Some believe supporting some behaviors is no less than child abuse. Encouraging volunteers of a national youth organization to support youth behavior they disagree with is encouraging an organization of child abuse. I understand and respect that many disagree, but they should respect it. Barry
    2 points
  15. I’m surprised how few people realize this.
    2 points
  16. The BSA does not expect everyone to accept transgender Scouts. Here is the policy, from January 2017: I assume that when the BSA says "best interest of the child," they do not mean that a transgender Scout should be in a unit where the Scouters believe that transgender is not a real thing. To me, that wouldn't be in the best interest of the child. So if a transgender youth seeks to join your unit, it seems you are supposed to refer the person to council. You don't have to be any more involved than that.
    2 points
  17. This assumes gender identity is a choice. While I 100% agree that nothing permanent should be done for children under 18, I don’t agree that gender identity or sexual orientation is a choice. I didn’t choose to be heterosexual or identify as a male. I’ve met transgender teens and I can tell you their life is not easy. If it was a choice I believe they would definitely not choose to be transgender... they simply are. I think our understanding of the brain is in its infancy. Add in epigenetics and impact on fetal development from the chemical environment of the amniotic fluid and we
    2 points
  18. Gender is a social and cultural construct - not biological (its a common error to use gender when what one really means is sex). Since gender is not biological, it is very fluid - both on an individual level and on a societal level. Why would it be a bad thing to use language that does not reflect a gender bias in school? Is it really that difficult for people to say "firefighter" instead of "fireman" or "police officer" instead of "policeman" or "flight attendant" instead of "stewardess"? As for "the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichev
    2 points
  19. You know you're in trouble when a FAQ is so long that it needs a table of contents...
    2 points
  20. Hello Everyone... Sorry to bring an old post back to life, but I wanted to share an update, and maybe crow a bit. It started out as a slog, but our 2017-2018 program year wound up great. We did lose scouts when we decided to raise dues. I expected that, but I think it was okay. It cleaned out a lot of the people who were really using us as a babysitting service. I feel a little bad to say it, but people find tome and money for the things that are important to them. And scouting just wasn't important to the families that left. But most families, when they saw a budget and a breakdown
    2 points
  21. When I read the originating post; I thought the OP was asking how to handle a prospective member who is obviously a girl, but selected a blatantly false position as male in order to game the system. What I would do in the case of a tomboy wanting to be a scout is "Welcome to the troop. But we're going to have an issue with who shares a tent with you, so please recruit another 'boy' to be your buddy." And then we'd have no issues with getting enough female leaders on trips. Because we're all boys, right?
    1 point
  22. I don't understand the grandstanding, I can't find any posts in this discussion that suggest otherwise. Barry
    1 point
  23. A few years ago, our troop went on a backpacking trip. It was their first such trip for many of my first-year scouts. Two scouts from the new scout patrol would grumble, complain, and ask "How much farther?" every ten feet. (Naturally, I gave nonsensical answers every time: two parsecs, we passed it already, an orange, etc.) A third new scout never said a word. The hike ended with a long uphill slog terminating at the parking lot. Dropping his pack in the truck bed, he said under his breath, "That is the hardest thing I have ever done." He opted for the Swimming MB for his Eagle
    1 point
  24. Everybody knows the appropriate pronunciation is KA-row
    1 point
  25. I mean this in the nicest way possible - but it does not matter to me what your personal beliefs are on this topic. My point is that as Scouters we need to leave our personal feelings on this topic at home. If a transgender kid shows up in your troop you need to accept him and support his involvement in Scouting. The scout should never know that you disagree with the guidance of his family (and probably a healthy number of professionals) on his gender identity. Again - it's is not our place as Scouters to do discourage Scouts who are transgender. I'm making this point because it wo
    1 point
  26. As has been explained elsewhere, the parent signs the membership application and this has to “sign off” on their child’s gender identity. How does abuse come in to play? I’m really not seeing your point.
    1 point
  27. 1 point
  28. That's nice. I never thought of doing that. My best gift this Father's Day was that as my son and I and our respective spouses were finishing a late breakfast at a local diner, my son (Eagle Scout, age 26) announced that he, all on his own, has paid off his student loans - and then out of the blue, he picked up the check. The "gift" was not the $40 or whatever that my wife would have paid otherwise, it was the realization that my son has grown into a pretty good adult. I mean, I knew that already, but this was tangible proof.
    1 point
  29. I'm not sure about the "height of arrogance," but as someone who was told that on a number of occasions in this forum over 13 years, because I did not believe the BSA should automatically exclude gay persons as leaders, I agree that it is best not to say that to people - on either "side."
    1 point
  30. It's scientific fact that there is a very small percentage of people who are neither XX nor XY, though I guess that is not what we are primarily talking about here.
    1 point
  31. If you would do that in a non-Scouting context, I have no comment. But if you would do that in a Scouting context, for example where the young person and/or his parents is seeking to join your unit, that doesn't sound very Scoutlike to me. Not to mention it would be against BSA policy. I think the proper answer to such a prospective Scout, for someone who believes as you do, would be "You should contact the council and they will find a proper troop for you/your child."
    1 point
  32. If that case, I'm afraid they/you will have to get used to being offended. It happens a lot in every ones life. Again, I decline to join in this suddenly popular belief that sexes magically transform. That XX =XY They want to fly with that? OK It's a free country. You want to identify as a cow and sleep in a barn? Go for it. Have fun. But your DNA still reads as human. again reality I have not, do not and will not demand that others share my beliefs and viewpoints. I expect the same courtesy in return.
    1 point
  33. Being born into a gender, male or female, is a part of what it is to be human. Many plants and animals don't have a gender (or a fixed gender). I think it is very strange that some people will argue that my saying that people are born with a fixed gender is somehow denying that they are human. I feel that the opposite is true. Those who deny that people are born with a gender are denying their humanity, and are equating them with plants and animals. Liberals need to start treating people like human beings.
    1 point
  34. I know two transgender youth. I am not an expert of the topic, but understand it well enough to know where we need to start advocating on their behalf. Yes - these boys face a difficult life. The last thing they need is a bunch of Scout leaders trying to tell them they are not normal. My point was - and continues to be - that you need to leave these beliefs at home. These kids need a little normalcy and the best thing you can do for them is to help them get it.
    1 point
  35. Actually saying they have a condition is offensive. You don't pretend they are a boy - you accept that they are a boy
    1 point
  36. 1 point
  37. Scouting is not co-ed. (1) (1) Unless you attend a summer camp, or a merit badge university, or a Camporee, or a Cub Scout Day Camp, or an OA Induction, or NYLT, or any other event sponsored at the District, Council, or National level.
    1 point
  38. It's not our place to decide that. It's up to a Scout and the Scouts family. This is a significantly more complex decision than anything Scouters need to be involved in. Whether you or I think the kid is getting good advice at home or not, the kids need our support. If they want to be treated as a boy, treat them as a boy and move on.
    1 point
  39. December 2020 is the date I saw on one BSA document for the first female Eagle. Although doing the math, 3 months T-2-1, 4 months Star, 6 months Life, 6 months Eagle, September 2020 is the actual earliest.
    1 point
  40. Something also that's amazing is that scouts in Colorado were reported in a local Iowa paper.
    1 point
  41. It does seem like this is a place where youth really just need our support and for us to treat them as 100% normal and accepted - regardless of their gender identity.
    1 point
  42. Well, in practical terms, at least as far as Scouting is concerned, the child requires the agreement of their (using gender-neutral pronouns) parents that they are the gender they say they are. The youth application requires the youth member's gender and also must be signed by a parent or guardian. The BSA says they consider the youth to be the gender that appears on their application. So the child is not determining for themselves that they are a different gender. The adult(s) who are primarily responsible for the child are part of the process. In the one case that became widely known, i
    1 point
  43. Our rule is if they want to do it, we find the adults necessary. Kids are so over scheduled these days that nothing is spontaneous and everything is planned in advance, so it isn't difficult to get the adult leaders if it is going to be a Scouting event. The difference is that is an individual activity not a team sanctioned activity. Do my son and his buddy's who are Scouts take bike rides together or go hang out at the nearby lake or go into town to get pizza together? Of course. Does that need adult supervision? Of course not. Could a whole team meet on school grounds, use the
    1 point
  44. What a FABULOUS idea!!! Our Pack and Troop turned 55 this year, and we haven't really done anything to commemorate that yet - I hadn't even considered putting the Scouting Heritage merit badge forward as a way to recognize our units' longevity, which is all the more embarrassing since I am the merit badge counselor for Scouting Heritage. I am so glad you posted this, haha!
    1 point
  45. I forget which requirement it was for, but when I was a Tiger Cub leader, I had a Cub Scout from 1941 visit the meeting. He wasn't from the same pack, but it was still a big hit with the kids. And later, when chatting with someone at Roundtable, I learned that he had been a member of the pack, and I'm sure he would have been happy to come back and tell about what it was like back in the day. For a Boy Scout troop, I would encourage one or more of the scouts to work on Scouting Heritage Merit Badge. One of the requirements is to prepare a history of the unit, and this would be a good t
    1 point
  46. Most of my memories of Scouting as a youth are largely negative; I was bullied mercilously by the other boys, but since they were part of the same congregation that paid for me to be in Scouting in the first place, looking for another troop was not an option, so I had to get by on nothing but patience and forgiveness. But there was one camp-out that stands out to me, for many, many reasons. First of all, it was the most grueling, miserable hike of my life. Now, understand, I was tiny for my age; at 13 I was 4'11 and not even 100 lbs. And I never did any kind of sports, so I was not accust
    1 point
  47. I think it is time for the BSA to stop "selling" their decision and instead look forward and say, here's how it's going to be, here's what volunteers are supposed to be doing about it, etc. They are never going to convince a lot of people that the decision-making process was a good one, and that includes me. If they keep pointing to one survey and not to others, they are just going to keep making people angry. And they can keep talking about the meetings that were held for volunteers in each council, but then they're just inviting people (like me) to point out (again) that the meeting in my
    1 point
  48. The ideal is to recognize as soon as possible. Position patches should be given as soon as possible so the scout has the patch during his tenure in the position. Another example is rank patches. Hand them out ASAP otherwise the scouts will often never wear that rank patch as they may receive multiple at a COH. But all of this gets complicated by an ugly issue. Paperwork. Unless troops "game" the system, they can't get merit badges or rank patches in advance of having proof the scout earned the rank. A good troop will build up a tackle box of patches, badges, rank cards, MB cards, b
    1 point
  49. It can be a conundrum and if you start going down YPT and G2SS rabbit holes, second guessing yourself, and subscribing to the "McCarthyesque" YPT feeling that everyone is a predator, you may likely never leave the house and attend a scout meeting or event. The buddy thing is great and useful, but often different Scouts have different interests and class schedules at summer camp. The intent is for the boys to have a buddy, yet as many things that happen in the real world, out in the mud and the weeds, that may not be the case 100% of the time We (our unit) definitely works under the
    1 point
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