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No. My wife is a girl scout leader and I'm not interested in getting divorced.

No. My primary objection is that, while I believe the aims of Scouting are important goals for both boys and girls, I do not believe that the methods of Scouting are best suited to the learning and development of young women. I continue to object to the idea that Scouting will work for girls as it does for boys, as unpopular as that moral position may be these days. Plus, as a single guy in his early 30's, the very idea of my joining an all-girl troop of minors as a leader is inappropriate. I wouldn't even countenance the thought.

Short answer, yes. Long answer, I’m to tired for a long answer.

Yes. Assuming time and family were not a factor. How would I do it? Something like.... Initial Goal I'd start by establishing my initial goal. It would look something like: - a great CO & place to meet - 12 scouts at least. My max goal would be 24 scouts. - SM & 2 ASMs - A Troop Committee of 3 people (Chair, Treasurer, & Activities) Stretch goal: Have a feeder pack How I'd reach goal #1. 1) I'd call my DE. I'd let him know that I'm doing this. I'd leverage his/her skills to help get this started. 2) Start looking for a Scoutmaster 3) I'd tr

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-the-male-crisis-thats-ruining-our-boys-and-no-one-cares-about I’m posting this article because it hints to what many of us were saying during adding girls debate. The article is mostly centered around fatherless boys, but there is some mention of what boys need to develop their instinctive nature that I’ve talked about in other threads. For example: “As Farrell and Gray explain: “The traditional boy’s journey to self-sacrifice incorporated service to others, and required responsibility, loyalty, honour, and accountability. It created his m

I believe this story is far from over. Rumor has it several in the party suffered frostbite. I was told the group had an "epic" on the same mountain, in previous years. The newspaper described it as a "hike". It is, actually, technical mountain travel where one ropes up to move more safely across snow covered crevasses in the glacier, as well as protecting climbers on steeper terrain. I've guided* on this mountain, professionally, twice. Summitted once, backed off once, near the top. It can be winter time on that mountain every day of the year, including June. On my last trip there w

@MattR & @desertrat77 , Thanks for taking on this responsibility. In my head I picture your recruitment going much like my recruitment as Cubmaster: "So... we noticed that you're coming to all the meetings anyway..."

Not speaking for @The Latin Scot, but based on my experience as a crew advisor, girls and uniforming is gonna be rough. American female cultural icons put tremendous pressure on young women to "sex everything up". I'm not referring to permissive behavior (although that sometimes applies), but to emphasizing "woman in a man's world" in every aspect of dress. They don't see it that way. And they take offense at the suggestion. But I've seen it play out with many young women -- having to convince them that yes, it is better to wear their uniform as if they are one of the boys and not some an

If anyone asked me for help right now in starting a troop, and I had the time and energy, I absolutely would because I could do it the way I wanted. There would be no baggage to deal with. I'd explain to the adults how it is going to be and they'd vote on whether I should continue. I'd have a list of job descriptions that they'd have to fill to get things going. I'd come up with a list of games that involved teaching outdoor skills for the scouts to understand what meetings and campouts looked like. The scouts would pick a calendar. As for leadership development every single sco

I am not trying to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, which method(s) do you feel don't apply to or work for girls?? Adult Association?? Advancement?? Ideals?? Leadership Development??? Outdoor Program?? Patrol Method?? Personal Growth?? Uniform??? I don't want to argue about this, I just am interested in your perspective.

It's just a matter of time. Most of the girls who have been waiting to become Scouts are already in Girl Scouts. It's going to take a few years for girls to get comfortable with the notion that BSA scouting is a valid choice and that they ought to check it out. That will move more quickly if there are great troops to join, but it's going to take some time regardless. In the short term, I think you find the best "boy" troop you can and see if you can steer the interest to establish a girl troop there - whether linked or separate. Odds are that there is something about the "boy" tr

Lately, if I were asked to help start another boy unit, I'm not sure if I would do it. On the other hand, some of us have been armchairing the idea of a completely rogue unit using the 1940s handbook and merit badge requirements. I'd do that.

Depends whose doing the asking. If it's a DE or other pro, no. If it's a CO, maybe. If it's 5 girls ... I've launched a crew for as much.

Oh, I would never do that. The idea that one must "accept any and all beliefs" was never my desire. Like B-P once said (paraphrase) a Scout's faith is generally determined by his family. Since there are so many different types of worship, I would never point and say THIS one is correct, all the rest are poor imitations. No, no, no. Not my decision. Not yours (or anyone's) either. We can only "do our best", and when the final exam comes around, see if we pass. One of my favorite comedians Emo Phillips wrote/created a joke about this... Once I saw this guy on a brid

My sons are now 18 and 20, but the last year they were both in the troop, and I volunteered as ASM, participating in our troops' activities cost over $3000 for that year. How much over? I can't say. I camped about 6 times that year, and my boys 8-9 times. Summer camp was one week. NJ is expensive - summer camps within 3 hours drive run $400 - 450 per week. Our troop charges $15 per person for food on a campout, so that was $330, plus when the adult volunteers camp, we split cooking and shopping chores for the leader patrol. I cooked one trip that year, and shopping cost me about $

Well, here's one way to teach "thrifty". Each Scout pays(?) an amount, say, $12. The Patrol Treasurer (!!) collects that and the Patrol then goes out TOGETHER and plans the menu and buys the food from THAT amount. No going over. Maybe get some stuff from home? Three, four meals? Carry in? Not car trunk'd in? I marveled when my Scoutson first went camping with his Patrol. They went out and bought STEAKS and POTATOES and REAL MILK ( not instant), eggs, OJ etc.... , and THEN divied up the cost (Bank of Dads) . When half the Patrol DID NOT (!!) go on the trip, the four Scouts tha

The current BSA policy on this subject, announced on Jan. 30, 2017, is here: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-addresses-gender-identity/ It has been discussed in this forum before. The policy is basically that the BSA considers a person to be the gender indicated on their membership application. I prefer the GSUSA policy, which looks like it was written by people who actually work with children, as opposed to the BSA policy, which looks like it was written by lawyers. (Apologies to myself.) As far as I know, the BSA has not had to deal with someone "switching b

I see a good deal of opposition to girl units because some organizations will not follow policy and have coed units. Yet when organizations don’t follow policy in other areas (advancement, boy-led, patrol method, uniforms et al.) most argue they should be corrected rather not having that standard. I have seen units extremely lax with advancement standards. It doesn’t make sense to drop advancement from the program because some units won’t follow policy. Just as it doesn’t make sense to oppose female troops because some units will ignore policy and become coed. I support the new

@FireStone - Well... no, I hadn't ever looked into the BPSA. Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole.

No. I got into scouting as an adult to help my son and his peers navigate the path from boyhood to manhood in a society that is increasingly hostile towards boys/men. That's where my passion for scouting lies. I did the co-ed youth group leadership thing for a few concurrent years as well. It was a good program, but, it wasn't as good for the boys as scouting.

With all due respect, "linked troops" will be coed troops. Linked troops share everything: CO; committee; meeting night, time, and location; trips and activities; equipment; and ASMs. The only thing they cannot currently share is SMs. Even then some are saying that is a suggestion and not a requirement for "linked troops." That sounds like a coed troop to me, and all the volunteers I have talked too. It also sounds like a coed troop to the Boy Scouts I've talked to as well.

A scout is helpful.

Wood Badge is intended for participants to understand where they fit in the program and planning to develop skills for that fit. Wood Badge is not a skills development course. It’s very good at helping leaders build a plan for their scouting future, provided the staff is good at guiding in seeing that future. Many staffs don’t understand the intention of Wood Badge and instead just play their staffing part for the fun of being on staff. Personally I think Wood Badge is better fitted torward adults in cub scouts looking at a long future in scouting. If you have a plan like ASM, then I thin

Boy would I!

To answer your question, yes I would assist in getting the troop started. But in my area every Pack and Troop is dependent on the Adult leadership. Packs (CM, Den Leaders), Troops (SM, ASM) most of the CM are parents. Units in my area fold because of losing this above group. If it was left up to the CO to recruit and replace unit leaders NO leaders would be replaced and the unit would fold. Units with very active CO involvement with the units is rare in my area. They are willing to let units meet at there location but do not take an active role in most cases in the running of the uni

I think it depends on who asks me. Our current Cubmaster for my daughters pack is interested in starting a Troop for his daughter (6 grader). He has reached out to me for help, since I am the only ASM in a troop he knows. The man has great ideas, but his tack record on the pack side has kept me from jumping in. Luckily there is a all girl pack within 30-40 mins from my town. They are supported by some amazing ladies, one of which is an ASM for a very traditional troop. I would not be surprised that she becomes the SM of the new all girl troop as a stand alone unit. I am plann

Q: What research did the BSA conduct that informed this decision? To inform this decision, the Boy Scouts of America conducted extensive research. You hear that? Not just research, but Extensive Research. I bet they have Top Men working on this as we speak:

No. Our CO is very clear they want us to be as close to coed as the rules allow. My wife has been a WDL for the last 2 years but is waiting to see how this shakes out before choosing her leadership role next year.... Maybe girl WDL, maybe female ASM looikng towards Feb. '19. So starting a stand alone girl troop is a non-starter for us.

no not in today's climate. but i do like saltface's idea.

No. I do not have any daughters, and know I would be looked at with suspicion by some parents. That suspicion can cause problems that a new unit would not need. This happened to me several times when I was younger and had no kids in the program. Heck it happened with some parents in the troop I grew up in! One mother was very concerned that a 19 year old college student was working with her son. She thought I was a pedophile, and she told me that years later after she got to know me. Two troops I was in had reservations about me, and only accepted me as a volunteer when they verified tha

I don’t know. Our troop and crew have same CO, COR, same meeting night, same meeting location (different rooms). We share equipment, but usually have different dates four outings, but not always. Sometimes we share programs or service projects. We have different Committee’s, different unit leaders and different youth leadership. The youth work out the logistics. Sometimes we have improvise on equipment. Our focus has been on providing the best program we can for our units, less about reasons we can’t.

Oh, sorry, took your "trying to think through" as as actually having a problem to solve ... not making up a unecessary excuse. :P I'm not seeing the demand here, either. But I'm thinking through this stuff because our CO has been open to this sort of thing, and life as a crew advisor has involved times of thinning rosters punctuated by kids walking up to my door wanting to go backpacking.

Not sure you got my point. It really doesn't matter because none of our 6 feeder packs are adding girls to their packs and our CO has no interest in adding a girl troop. I hope this works out for the girls wanting to join Scouts but when I look at the local Venture crew numbers crumble I just dont see the interest from them.

Lt. Gilbert Nelson Jerome, former New Haven Scout Executive, A.S.,U.S.A. Escadrille Spad 90, Eighth French Army Lt. Jerome was Scout Executive for New Haven, CT from Aug, 1915 to June, 1917 when he enlisted to attend ground school at M.I.T. then to France for flight school and assignment in an escadrille. He was killed in action July 11,1918. while patrolling the French lines near Verdenal. On Thursday, June 14, at 5:00 p.m., the New Haven Museum will open "Gilbert Jerome: New Haven's WWI Aviator," an unusual and intimate exhibit capturing Jerome's brief, enthusiastic e

I think it is time for the BSA to stop "selling" their decision and instead look forward and say, here's how it's going to be, here's what volunteers are supposed to be doing about it, etc. They are never going to convince a lot of people that the decision-making process was a good one, and that includes me. If they keep pointing to one survey and not to others, they are just going to keep making people angry. And they can keep talking about the meetings that were held for volunteers in each council, but then they're just inviting people (like me) to point out (again) that the meeting in my

Good reply. I think it expresses the thoughts of much of our society. But, if I may humbly give a personal anecdote; the Scouts surprised me with the Scoutmater Award Of Merit during a COH. In the presentation speech by the SPL, he stated that he didn’t know my religion, but he knew I was a deeply religious man. The BSA program has one set of directives that most other organizations don’t have in building respect for the differences of each member of the patrol, the Scout Oath and Law. The Oath and Law not only don’t conflict with the teachings of most religions, they enhance them. E

You know you're in trouble when a FAQ is so long that it needs a table of contents...

This is not a prediction, but, with the way things are developing, I believe councils and national will be under heavy financial pressures for a good generation (20+ years) until the changes settle down. So, I suggest one model of scouting might become a community-based distributed model, where Amazon or some equivalent vendor is tasked with managing advancement and equipment supplies, and Packs and Troops become islands of Scouting in their communities - without interaction with National or Council involvement. After all, Troops and Packs are now the only organization most SCOUTS NEED - run

I don't know whether it is going to "work," but I do know that there is only one way it is going to "work." It will work if the people who are concerned about whether it is going to work put themselves in a position to make it work, and then make it work. Otherwise, you're correct, the people who want to take the easy way out are just going to turn it into a coed program.

Fully agree, as you could be talking about my chartered organization when you speak of shoehorning in another troop meting. They would not get a good time or night. In my very large sized, very low population density rural district, (at highway speed, 65 miles an hour, it takes about an hour and a half to travel from one end to the other north/south and 45 minutes to an hour east/west) we currently have eight registered units, three of them LDS, who will be gone in 2020. All of them are small and clustered around the two major population areas. We already have to few "leaders" who step

If Maine ACE program is accurately described and despite the cost differential, I could see my scouts opting for a ride in a Blackhawk and KC-135 over attending scout summer camp. In '69, Philmont was great but I was more excited about the other stops - McConnell AFB, Forbes AFB, USAF Academy, Wright-Patterson AFB. I took more photos at the Air Force Museum than the whole rest of the trip. Seeing tornadoes spinning on the Plains from Mt. Baldy summit or seeing and hearing night F-105 engine tests at Forbes AFB. Hmm. Another $0.02,

Hello Everyone... Sorry to bring an old post back to life, but I wanted to share an update, and maybe crow a bit. It started out as a slog, but our 2017-2018 program year wound up great. We did lose scouts when we decided to raise dues. I expected that, but I think it was okay. It cleaned out a lot of the people who were really using us as a babysitting service. I feel a little bad to say it, but people find tome and money for the things that are important to them. And scouting just wasn't important to the families that left. But most families, when they saw a budget and a breakdown

I love scouts but it's not cheap and people who try and say it's more economical than sports aren't being truthful. Yes, elite club sports can be pricey, but so can high adventure scouting trips that require airfare, etc. Like everything, the costs benefits analysis depends on where you are and what you want to get out of it. I think youth sports and scouting are wonderful, complementary activities and I do not like to see either group bash the other. Scouts teach teamwork, leadership, citizenship, and service, and so do many sports, especially if the same caliber of person is involved with th

You obviously have no idea how expensive it can be to build and maintain a baseball field. A well designed regulation 90' baseball field, not including land costs, can run upwards of a half-million dollars. I would hardly describe that as a grassy field.

I would estimate my baseline costs for my son were $500-$600 per year. I suspect our challenge isn't cost so much as Return on Investment. I know I don't have to sell anybody here on the ROI of scouting but then again, we aren't the ones making the judgement. The question is what do parents see as the ROI. I suspect, because the return is drawn out over a number of years, many parents rate scouting's return lower than sports or other school activities where the return seems to be more immediate (game next week, two school plays/concerts a year, etc.).

Our group is still leaving and returning the same flights, but now they are going to do various 2 and 3 day hikes in Colorado. Drummed up some contacts, friends, etc but they have salvaged a trip.

This. 100% accurate. There needs to be a simple set of easily-enforceable guidelines. When the rules become too voluminous and impossible to enforce, people begin to willfully disregard all rules or volunteers simply walk away. Neither of which is the desired outcome.

Is it ok? Depends. My kids go over the next door neighbors house all the time. We've been neighbors for years, had BBQs together, etc. This is basic social communal structure. If my neighbor was now the scoutmaster, my son is forbidden from going over the neighbor's house to ask to get the ball that went over the fence, or to collect newspaper money or to get a drink of water because two deep leadership isn't present? Counter Counter point... my whole family is now in scouting... if we decide to go on a trip with another family who we're friends with and my kids are swimming...

Oh Jezzzz.... Anyone Sew Anymore? If your Sure he ain't gonna "Blossom" into a Giant anytime soon ... Shorten in...Hem and replace new Snaps Another thing..something I did..I put a Piece of Velcro on my Sash and Uniform to keep the sash from slipping down all the Time...Kept the Arrow upright and at a Good height all the Time.