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I have never believed that it is at all necessary for a boy to have been a cub scout and earned AoL in order to become a successful scout. As a scoutmaster, I considered AoL to be irrelevant. It's just another piece of bling.

I hesitate to respond to any of this, but I suspect there are some out there who have joined the forum fairly recently who are scratching their heads about what is going on in this thread. I therefore feel compelled (perhaps foolishly) to offer some explanation. I am trying to word this as neutrally as possible. This thread, and the two posts in this thready by @SCOUTER-Terry, the owner of Scouter.com, were a response to the reaction of some in this forum to the decision by the BSA in 2015 to end the exclusion of leaders on the basis of sexual orientation, except for CO's that are relig

I agree that Timmy shouldn't be camping. He was small for his age and very clumsy. Barely a week went by that he didn't fall into a well, get stuck on the edge of a cliff, or some such thing. The poor boy would have never lived to see puberty if it wasn't for his dog.

In the other current summer camp thread the OP and some others make reference to Brownsea Island and similar programs for first year scouts, and I wanted to have a discussion about their pros and cons. Our camp calls it T21 -- The Starting Place, and although it is well run I'm not a big fan. Rather than concentrating on learning basic scout skills in that kind of a classroom or structured setting, I advise my newest scouts to do things at summer camp that they're not going to get to do on other campouts. I tell them to take at least one boating program: canoeing, row boat small sail, e

I'll have to ask if he still has the recipe. This was from a few years ago. We do this in November, so ideally you'd let it set in the cold for a while, but no time for that.

This is part of why our monthly Roundtable not only features CS & BS breakout sessions, but also a parent breakout. Hopefully we will be able to have some parents 'see the light'. We are also coming back this fall with a possible Webelos breakout, designed to help some of those new WDL's to learn the patrol method before they plunge head first into the icy cold waters of Boy Scouts.

Our scoutmaster's cheesecake. The picture doesn't do it justice. Not a crack at all. This is from our Iron Chef campout/competition.

Nope, you're good. That's why I made the LDS carve out in my original comment.

But but...it's dark and scary out there, and little Timmy has a lot to do, and the cell phone reception is weak, and toilets are scarce, and there was soccer.....

Well then it's important for you to know that I AM in an LDS pack, and that's how we do things - standard LDS policy is that boys advance by age, so from 10 to 11 they are Webelos Scouts. The BSA has always been very accomodating to us in that regard; it fits how we run our children's programs, and the BSA has long granted us the right to operate our program in that way. And I never tamper with advancement criteria; if anything I am known for being determinedly orthodox in my expectations. So I would be happy to know what other things "concern" you, as I am confident that I run my program as c

You can remember when phones were attached to the wall. And you can remember albums. Yah, you're ancient. (like me )

I agree the new program is light but argue that that's not the reason scouts are joining troops unprepared. The Scouting Adventure requirement for AoL is virtually identical to the Scout rank in Boy Scouts. If a scout earns AoL and still joins Boy Scouts unprepared, I put that on the cub leaders for passing along a kid who didn't really meet the AoL requirements as opposed to blaming the thinner rank requirements. To earn the AoL rank the scout must still "know how to function as a Patrol and can't recite the Scout Oath, Scout Law, and outdoor code properly."

Venturing Gold Award

Very common way of thinking these days. It is how we are all conditioned now. But to look at perspective, and perhaps change your paradigm a bit.....I don't know how old you are, probably not quite as old as I am, but if you're close.... think about what age these 1st year scouts are. Now consider the kinds of things you did at that age. When I was much younger than these scouts, I was on my bike or on foot, roaming the neighborhood...sometimes with friends, sometimes on my way to see friends. I'd be out of the house for hours at the time, doing all sorts of things.... explorin

It can be a conundrum and if you start going down YPT and G2SS rabbit holes, second guessing yourself, and subscribing to the "McCarthyesque" YPT feeling that everyone is a predator, you may likely never leave the house and attend a scout meeting or event. The buddy thing is great and useful, but often different Scouts have different interests and class schedules at summer camp. The intent is for the boys to have a buddy, yet as many things that happen in the real world, out in the mud and the weeds, that may not be the case 100% of the time We (our unit) definitely works under the

Where was the scout's buddy? Send him away to get his buddy, continue to read your book in peace.

At summer camp, I had some down time while the boys were at their merit badges and I was the only one at our site, sitting in a chair reading a book. One scout came back to the site. Does one of us have to leave? I think the arguments that this is mostly about BSA doing CYA for BSA and damn the scouters is correct. There's no question that safe scouting and YPT rules need to be in place. Good rules protect scouts and scouters. When you make the rules impossible to follow, don't be surprised when it does further damage to the program. I guess I should stop delaying buying tha

There are still a few "patrol method" summer camps - patrol competitions, the whole patrol spends day/day(s) in same activity, patrol cooking no mess halls, few or no merit badges offered,

June 6, 6:02 PM PDT One scout and two scout leaders have been released from the hospital. One scout remains hospitalized in satisfactory condition. https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/boy-scout-remains-hospitalized-after-mount-baker-rescue/281-562085823

The switch from pins to urns at 100 years of service ... https://www.inthelighturns.com/life-s-trail-boy-scout-light-oak-urn.html

Want to know whose job it is to keep the program grounded and cool? Not the executives at the BSA Corporate. Not the members of the Board or Executive Board. Not some figurehead like a Bear Grylls (and lets be very honest here - Bear Grylls is in that role for one purpose - and one purpose only - marketing - to sell the Boy Scouts to boys and their parents in the UK). Every volunteer Scouter should look in the mirror if they want to know who is responsible for keeping the program grounded and cool. When it comes right down to it, the Scouts in your units aren't looking at Surbaugh - m

@desertrat77 If you ever plan to motor west Travel my way, take the highway that is bestGet your kicks on Route sixty six Well, maybe not. Depends on how you want to travel. But you could see picturesque Amarillo! No? So happy to hear that you're able to go. Might want to be sure your bandannas can be used as ash filters. And if you see a bear, it could be Smokey...

I'm wrapping up my year as a Tiger DL and I can that our year was pretty much the inverse of what you describe. I can think of maybe 2 den meetings that were heavy on arts and crafts. The rest of the year we were playing games, learning scout skills, we did 3 service projects, went camping 3 times, went on multiple fishing, hiking, and other day-trips, etc. Maybe your program is 90% arts and crafts, but if that's the case, that's a unit issue, not a Scouts issue.

I bolded that because it is spot on. Either National is screwing up royally, is preparing for coed patrols. I have a feeling it is to prepare for coed patrols. Otherwise why do 18-20 year olds not count for YP purposes? And I agree with you. I remember doing hikes as a patrol. I remember patrol meetings without adults. I remember doing my Eagle Project on my own with my fellow Scouts (OK mom was there b/c she drove me, and had snacks for us as we did the project. But she was not registered, and she stayed with the car). After October 1st, the Patrol Method as had been preached and practi

This seems antithetical to the very foundation and purpose upon which BSA was founded. Scouts were supposed to actively look for ways to serve, and then do them. Both individually and as patrols. Not sit back and wait for the adults to determine and then supervise the operation. Youth need to be allowed to take short flights before they leave the nest. They need to learn that they can plan and accomplish things without the hovering presence of an adult. The task of placing small flags on veterans graves is well within the ability of any patrol to perform on their own. By forcing

In our Pack, if you are of Cub Scout age, you must be registered to participate. The only "tag-a-longs" that participate for free would be ones too young to register

"Do not take flimflamasol if you are allergic to flimflamasol" is my favorite.

@RichardB, does the BSA realize that at some point, the cost and risk of volunteering ("cost" including time, and "risk" including statements such as appear above) is going to make people stop volunteering? I think that for some people, the point has already been reached. I also think that if all leaders actually read the Guide to Safe Scouting, a large number would decide that the point has been reached for them as well. Does the BSA recognize this as a problem and have a solution? Or is it just our problem?

Possibly, but not really. I was a DE for a while. Key thing was membership numbers and money. Quality program never enters the conversation

Exactly. If execs don't like this characterization, there is a quick and easy way for them to fix it. Stop paying themselves these outrageously high salaries.

Fair enough. Just struck me that the LDS decision was likely in the works for some time now. A decision last year to admit girls didn't seem to match up sequence wise with the LDS decision. But, perhaps I'm wrong. I do understand where you're coming from and think it's unfortunate for the Scouts that we loose good people because of this. Who the BSA admits is less important to me than the core mission of bringing Scouting to the youth in the program. Do I agree with the recent decisions - sure. But, had they not happened, I'd still be a volunteer. I understand that for you these d

Yes... too many. I can understand the adults desire to go, but it's a boy's camp. Too many adults interfere the boys handling there own affairs. Remember too that in addition to your Troop's adults you have the camp staff adults providing supervision. I would comfortably take 30 to summer camp with 2 or 3 adults. The tough part will be deciding who goes. Maybe a few can split the week(s).

It is a good question and topic The base of the desire for single gender units is that Boys and Girls learn, mature, and interact socially differently. There is great value to give Boys and Girls an opportunity to work together in single gender groups. At this time there are coed leadership and association opportunities within Schools, churches, summer swim teams, academic teams, community organizations, private camps, etc. The Boy Scouts of America can provide one of the few areas where youth can work in a single gender environment that is not sports focused. Also - the Girls Sc

Agreed ... ... but getting fewer. Partly because nobody sees the benefit. I tried to get one of our extra camps to set up as patrol based and I was told in no uncertain terms that "everyone" wants more MBs and that's it. Still trying to not be grumpy. Our neighboring council has a really good one and it is all about patrol method. Everything was by patrol. I heard great things about it and even talked to the staff. I was seriously impressed. I tried to get my troop interested and the only response I got was the scouts cook on their own on all other campouts so give them a break. That w

The leader is a witch? I think I might see the problem.

The expected change in policy by BSA is a major inflection point (one long overdue in my opinion, though I respect that some may disagree based on their religious beliefs —————- thats one of the moat biased comments i have read on the issue my opposition to it has absolutely nothing to do with religion all to do with raising 2 girls through girl scouts and seeing how boys group dynamics changes with presence of girls You talk about decorum then make ignorant comment linking oppostion to religion you should apologize for your statement