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I've been thinking a lot about this over the past few days. I do indeed see things differently, though not in the ways many seem to think. I know this may not be the thread for this, but it is in response to a comment made in this thread, so I knew not where else to post it - moderators may remove it to a more appropriate thread without objection from me if that better serves the integrity of this topic. First of all, people are trying to "sequence" events, trying to determine which came first - a church move to exit Scouting, or incoming policy changes which the church found object

I'm very curious if the change will be "what it means to be an effective father if you're a boy and what it means to be an effective mother if you're a girl" or if they just say "parent". Which would be trash.

While I cannot speak for anybody else, as a female, I would have felt perfectly comfortable reading a magazine called "Boys Life". If I were younger and joining the BSA because of its program, I would not want or expect the program to change its name or that of its magazine just to accommodate me. Obviously, it would make sense to change a few things here and there (like the Family Life merit badge requirement on what it means to be an effective father). But I don't see why changing the name of the program or the magazine is necessary or "Thrifty".

I would hardly call an article that accuses BSA of "sexualizing" its Scouts and throwing a two-week orgy a "well-written" point of view.

Late last year I wrote a post on the comparison between the feminist and social justi.ce themes being injected into the Star Wars franchise; which seemed to mirror the BSA's 'progressive' decision to allow girls to join the BSA While The Last Jedi movie faced greatly mixed reviews from critics, longtime Star Wars fans and new, progressive Star Wars fans; the financial success of that movie could not be disputed. Many longtime fans who were deeply put off by the overt feminist and social justice themes and undertones of the Last Jedi, however, swore to no longer support the Star Wars

There is no debate, my response to your demeaning choice of word does says something about my religious beliefs and something I can’t change. Homophobic is a derogatory trigger word that says no tolerance of homosexual behavior. Many religions believe homosexuality to be immoral. Members of those religions have no choice no matter how they feel about it. I can see that offends you, but I’m sure even your religion teaches a behavior of tolerance. That you can’t think of a better choices of words exposes your anger and bias. Sore winner? Ive learned over years that more often than not

Well, that a pretty anti religious statement. Ironically it also suggests an exclusive program as well. So many unbias (friendly) words could have been chosen to make the same point. Barry

Q the name change has nothing to do with youth or what they want. References to anything male will have to be struck from the program in order to deconstruct the patriarchal oppression it represents.The women on the thread who noted they wouldn't be bothered to read Boy's Life just don't realize they are victims of the oppression. The Navy attempted to remove the word man from all it's rates in 2016 (e.g corpsman was deemed a sexist job title). They failed not for lack of trying but due to general outrage from the rank and file. The BSA won't face such headwinds.

I’m excited for the inclusion of girls as well. I’m a woman, so clearly not a Boy Scout. I was in Girl Scouts for years, quit in early high school. I was in Explorers in high school. My father and his cousins (his mother died when he was young, lived with his cousins from age 7on) were all Scouts. All 4 of his male cousins were Eagles. My father quit at Star or Life. Currently, I’m a Den Leader.

1st generation scout (although my brother, two decades my senior made it a very LONG generation). Cousin Bill locked the football hall of fame, so I - being flat footed and more into distance than speed - figured I'd appropriate my brothers' gear and hike/camp the tar out of it, becoming the family's 1st Eagle Scout in the process. Poor Mrs. Q hates rain, but had to endure a lot of camping vacations with it on account of how much rain likes me and looks forward to meeting me for a day or two when I'm out. Needless to say when Son #1 joined Cubs, then Scouts, then Daughter joined venturing

As many know, I’m still a youth. Life scout, 15, one merit badge left until Eagle, SPL for 2 years (my last term ends next week!). I honestly don’t see the real problem with girls being in Boy Scouts. I mean yes, Boy Scouts are in the name, but still. Girls will not be ruining the program for us, they will have their completely own program. Yes, GUSA and BSA should merge but we know that will not happen. I would like to know how this change will affect YOUR troop, and your program.

I am not excited about it. I am accepting of it, and if asked to be the advancement chair for a troop of girls as well as the current troop of boys (whether "linked" or otherwise), I will accept that too. It is starting to look like, if we have a sufficient number of girls in our town who are interested, we will probably end up with "linked" troops. Or a linked troop. A linked troops? They really need to get that terminology straightened out if they want me to use it correctly. Grammar aside, I view the whole thing with a mixture of curiosity and concern. Anyway, I was a Cub Sco

Thank you. Let me provide what I hope is an equally well stated rebuttal. I don't see the addition of girls to the program as adding a layer of richness, I see it as replacing a layer of richness that already exists. A place for boys to hang with their mates around the campfire is a rich and important experience. There's plenty of literature out there that suggests today's men don't have other male friends and it's impacting their mental health. The Boy Scouts has always been a place for boys to learn how to make male friends, nay, brothers. That process will be irrevocably changed w

I'm an Eagle Scout, 10 years an SM, was Vice Chief of Ajapeu Lodge in my long ago youth. Currently, my troop is viewed as the somewhat radical troop in my district because of how boy led we are --- if it's not a matter of health and safety, or of BSA or my CO's policy, then it's up to the scouts to decide, plan, and carry out their program. "Things we've always done" and "the way we've always done it" are not arguments for doing or not doing something now. I tell that to my scouts, and I think it applies to most of life. I have not been involved more than peripherally in my current lod

Fair enough, here goes... I pushed for inclusion in the BSA for many reasons. Sometimes because I thought that doing so would benefit the programs, sometimes because I felt that morally it was right, and sometimes because I felt that what the BSA was doing previously was just wrong (kicking kids out and denying advancement on the basis of sexual orientation, for example). The latter points can and have been debated here ad nauseum. On the "benefit the program" front, I think inclusion adds an additional layer of richness to the BSA. I have yet to hear about any gay scout or scouter

I'm a CC and I think the Committee needs to take a step back here. A large part of Scouting is providing an environment where Scouts can learn and grow. You've got a young scout who made a mistake. Let the scout and the SM deal with it and move on. The point here is to coach the scout, help him to see his error, and then figure out how to move forward.

I am putting this thread in I&P just in case it goes off the rails. I don't want to start any debates, judge anybody or imply anybody is more passionate than somebody else, I honestly am just curious about something. So, for the folks who are excited about girls being able to join Scouts, BSA next year, were you a Boy Scout as a youth, are you an Eagle Scout, and have you been a Scoutmaster? And because I don't want to cross post in a different forum, if you are excited about Scouts BSA members--along with Venturers and Sea Scouts--soon to become eligible to join OA, were you an

...and we are seeing a steady drop in youth participation as a result.

RememberSchiff, That was a lot to say in one post. You covered a lot of territory, but you seemed to have forgotten that scout units are owned and operated by Chartered Organizations. You never even mentioned the CO's.

It sounds like there may be a misunderstanding. I would let them regroup and try again. This is called, a learning experience. Kids screw up all the time. Or you can kick him out of the troop, ban his family and curse him for life. I don't know what BSA says about punishing scouts, but if you seek to punish the Scout, I think you may need to check your scope of practice as a Scouter.

I am generally OK with girls joining Scouts and I have never been a Boy Scout. I am a woman. Thinking back to my girlhood I am not sure if I would have been a Scout if it was available. It's a huge commitment and the physical fitness might have been a turnoff. I was more into dance and music programs as a youth. I wasn't into camping until my husband and I started together when our kids were potty trained. So we are newer outdoorsy types. I've always liked day outings, of course.

Pottery. If you can find an artist who will set up a wood fired kiln, clay is cheap.

I think it's about time for both girls in Scouts and Venturers/Sea Scouts in OA . And since you did put it in I&P, but not necessarily meaning to open a can of worms, I'm looking forward to when the BSA finally gets out of the discrimination game altogether and allows agnostics and atheists to join. Arrow of Light, Eagle Scout, OA Vigil Honor, OA Chapter Chief, Lodge Vice Chief, National Camp School Day Camp Program, National High Adventure Base staff (Okpik before it became a Council/Unit program - and summer session), Assistant Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, District Committee, Unit Co

I have only had contact with the Committee Chair. No one else has spoken to me or my son. I agree my son did not choose his words wisely.

Everyone in this morass, ideally, presumably, is a Scout. A Scout is trustworthy. We made it clear to our Scoutson and, indeed, to any Scout I've had dealings with that A Scout Should Say What He/she Means, because they will be believed. If a Scout said to me, "my parents are gonna kill me if I lose this sleeping bag." I would ask him , do you REALLY mean that? If so, we have other problems to deal with than an empty threat (empty?) If your Scout said what he is accused of saying , and was interpreted as making a threat to the other , younger Scout, rather than a hyperbolic expre

I have 1 mother pushing really hard for us to drop the Camp Fire Club we started 3 years ago and transition to Cub Scouts. It really sounds like 1. We wouldn't have the manpower to do so. 2.even though it is allowing girls in it really inst set up to be an inclusive environment.

I would suggest 2 things - - Ask to see the policy for discipline, what steps are taken, who is present etc.. - Ask that the other scout be punished also. Stealing is wrong and he needs to be punished also

The protocol: Scout unit reports the incident to the Council Scout Executive since it is an alleged threat that falls under the Youth Protection Policy. The Scout Executive or designee work with the unit to complete an incident report. The Scout Executive may choose to remove him from Scouting altogether. If so you will get a letter and it should contain an appeals process. The Unit may choose to remove him from the troop. A simple phone call is all it should take. You may or may not be able to appeal that decision. Even if you could you probably do not want to stay in that

Good. Now some over-zealous social worker can come after you for posing a threat to your son. That's much better.

We sometimes assume knowledge that not everyone has. So let me lay out what the hierarchy is in Boy Scouts. Your troop is sponsored by a Chartering Organization (CO) this is some sort of local community organization, I think by the numbers it is probably a church, it can also be a school, or some civic organization like an Elks Lodge, VFW Post, American Legion, etc. This is probably where your troop meets. That CO has an agreement with the local BSA Council to carry out the scouting program. The local Council is the area representation of the Boy Scouts of America, their name is what'

I would like to know who the letter is actually from, if it does show up. I have worked with troops when the committee wanted to ban a Boy Scout from all BSA activities--and they were really upset when they found out they have no such authority. Then again, I helped a unit when a Boy Scout was banned from all BSA activities by National while they investigated the events in question. However, there had been multiple SM and SM/CC conferences with the Scout before Council and National became involved, so the ban was not a surprise. BTW, National eventually decided things were not quite

This was exactly my experience in HS when Physical Education went co-ed. Dodgeball, gym hockey, wrestling all disappeared from the curriculum. Flag football went from a contact game to being kicked out of class if you bumped into a girl. Boys weren't allowed to block shots in basketball or hit spikes in volleyball if the person on the other side was a girl. Again, kicked out of class for the day. They added square dancing for the love of Pete!

So so far from the truth, and missing the reality of what the Jamboree will be like by so much.

I'm heading for more fun than any scouter deserves to have. I told my troop about openings in my WSJ contingent and one boy approached me and said his dad cleared it for him go. While placing flags at the cemetery last night, I caught up with him, and he confirmed that he completed his application the minute he got home from our meeting. If the BSA finds a way to affirm athiests fulfill a duty God as they understand it, my own church will jump on sponsoring a unit. (Lots of unbelievers and sometimes their kids darken their doors.) If BSA's longest standing exclusion, the agist 1

So so dumb. Everything CSE said about the BSA understanding and embracing the differences of the genders and supporting single gender instruction is a bald faced lie. Actions speak louder than words. Spinning off a brand new magazine for girls, have some overlap in articles but also showcase things outside of scouts that interest girls should have been the obvious direction. I wonder how we can get a petition started to voice no confidence in Michael Surbaugh and petition National to elect Mike Rowe as Chief Scout Exec?

apparently it's all Trail Life's fault now, https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/blog/clarifying-misinformation-about-2019-world-scout-jamboree-policies/

By gad, sir, you are a wonder. Every so often, somebody sees a problem and actually solves it. My Scout Hat off to you . Many Scout Leaders will be grateful, but they may not even know for what. But you will know. Some years ago, I was an active Archery Range Safety Officer for CSDC. We held camp in the same locale many years, and others did too. I taught my Scout Assistants to "Walk The Range", in both directions, to retrieve arrows and check conditions. I mention this to set the stage for my story. One year, as we set things up, I opened up the supplies that Council had

While it might be nice for the DE to do a little more proactive outreach, this sounds about right. The DE is a district level player. If you guys are not involved at the district level and just focus internally - then why would he interact with you?

DE and DD come and go. Boots on the ground is what makes the program go.

By the way, I don’t worry about what a DE or DD thinks.

I think that that is a great analogy... also, put the shoe on the other foot. Would we want other hosts to be able to push their values and religious mores on our scouts at a World Jamboree? Put another way, how would people here feel about the host nation's religious views if the event were say, joinly hosted by Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, and they prohibited female Scouters and Jewish Scouts from attending?

Doesn't sound odd at all. Teen pregnancies would skyrocket if there was a minimum age for condom purchase.

Where did you read that BSA does not approve? The BSA has sent scouts to seven WSJ's since this policy was implemented. (Thanks to @RememberSchiff for the quote gathered by snopes.) It's a policy BTW, hewn from the WHO playbook. I remember the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports from that time. Not fun watching the start of a pandemic. (Graphs that looked like tracking planes off an airport runway.) Nobody knew if or how death would be forestalled -- especially in many third world countries. A world of very poor and desperate people quickly warmed to the use of latex, and death rates b

My breaking point happened 10+ years ago when My wife, who volunteered on our crew's committee, came home from a youth protection class where a fellow student tossed out the, "I thought we had Girl Scouts for girls." One scouter told me I was wrecking the program (promoting venturing) when in fact I was giving our boys more hiking/camping hours. Adults blew smoke over local adult-contrived boundaries that youth rightly found to bIe stupid Yet on each adventure, in a dozen different ways each time, I reaped youths' smiles. I broke. I did. I broke in favor of as many

For me it is all about the unit level. Always has been . It matters not to me what extra membership requirements some other unit uses to allow or disallow scouts or scouters from their rolls. If some other troop somewhere is a girl troop, it doesn't affect my troop. Just because the neighboring troop doesnt use the patrol method at all, and is basically an adult run activity center, it doesnr affect my troop. Just like we tell families and scouts, find the troop that you fit with. If it is no longer your current unit, find a different one.

Every camping trip, service project, field trip, round table, and event.

I've thought that, quite often lately. Or we might be more like other scout organizations where the uniform is more akin to formal attire, and for general purposes it isn't required or even encouraged. Just look at all of the stock photos in the BSA Brand Center. Few of them show scouts in uniform anymore. It's not all bad, though. I would actually welcome a middle-ground option, less Class A uniform wear but instead encourage more Class B with a neckerchief. I really like how most other groups do that, with a good size neckerchief and a loose knot tied at the bottom, worn over a t-

Then there is the story of the Arts and Hobbies Crew that specialized in Chess Tournaments, they placed First, Second and Third once. The tournament had been held in a Hotel and the Crew members were boisterously recounting each game in the Lobby until the concierge threw them out. Seems the Hotel had a strict policy against Chest nuts boasting in an open Foyer(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

here's two: Team Work The loaded van pulled in to the only remaining campsite. Eight *Scouts* leaped from the vehicle and began feverishly unloading gear and setting up the tents. Some of the boys rushed to gather firewood, while the others set up the camp stove and cooking utensils. A nearby camper marveled to the Scoutmaster, "That, sir, is some display of teamwork!" The Scoutmaster replied, "I have a system; no one goes to the bathroom until the camp is set up." Tate Compass Co. There was once a couple named Nancy & Mike Tate, and it was their life' s dream to

"There are only two creatures of value on the face of the Earth - those with a commitment, and those that require the commitment of others." Not trying to be argumentative, but as I read this it seems to cover just about everyone and everything. A good pal of mine who is a Roman Catholic Priest gave a great sermon about Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus with the cross. While most of the material I have read about Simon deals with him being a reluctant helper. This sermon was about Jesus accepting the help. It went on to deal with how most of us are good at giving, we are not very good at re