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New uniforms, Venturers and Sea Scouts in the OA are both program changes. Changes to two deep is a program change. The military has different PT requirements for men and women so expect changes to Personal Fitness MB and Tenderfoot requirements. Family Life MB used to have a requirement to discuss with your counselor what it means to be a good father. That will change. Rumors of the OA dropping NA regalia will be a program change. New magazine name is a program change. But the program is more than rank and badge requirements and logistics. The program is made by all the intangibles of

That is very generous of you, but I don't think your $0.02 will cover it.

I have to agree. Anyone who donates that much time, effort, and money to scouting ought to be committed.

Get on board with the new order Scouter or you'll end up in reeducation summer camp!

and they wonder why so many Scouters with decades of service are angry and disgusted. Its not that we hate girls for Gods sake, or even that we don't think they would be an asset to scouting, its the simple fact that we hate being lied to by those at the very head of our organisation. Which by the way has as the first point of its law the word Trustworthy.

No one disagrees with that. But there is a difference between children, adolescences and adults. The proof is in the pudding, boys are being forgotten, left behind, called toxic, they're failing out of school, they're not bothering with college, they're using drugs at a higher rate, they're shooting schools at a higher rate, they're killing themselves at a much higher rate and at a much younger age. As we've done all this transitioning to gender neutrality, the statistics on failing boys has climbed ever higher. Yes, correlation does not equal causation, but there are is an abundance of e

Pat??

I'm in England at the moment. I visited @Cambridgeskip's troop and really liked what I had a brief view of (thanks for the tour, Skip!). However, if the BSA plan is to emulate the UK plan then we're in trouble. This is nothing against UK scouts. Their program is great for them. Our program should be great for us. There are cultural differences that won't translate. We are hung up on eagle. I've read their forum and have never seen the types of arguments we have. They don't have summer camps like we do. I'd much rather see a return to GBB. Fun with a purpose. I ran a camporee based on that and

So so dumb. Everything CSE said about the BSA understanding and embracing the differences of the genders and supporting single gender instruction is a bald faced lie. Actions speak louder than words. Spinning off a brand new magazine for girls, have some overlap in articles but also showcase things outside of scouts that interest girls should have been the obvious direction. I wonder how we can get a petition started to voice no confidence in Michael Surbaugh and petition National to elect Mike Rowe as Chief Scout Exec?

Don't just voice your displeasure. Cancel your subscription. Stop donating to FoS. Stop selling popcorn. In short, hit em where it hurts.

I actually asked someone at national the exact question "are you going to keep calling it boys life" and they told me yes. I feel straight up lied to by National.

I think BSA will continue to exist, but in a very different incarnation than we know today. Some sort of bankruptcy reorganization seems inevitable. Many of the changes ahead will be dictated by courts and creditors and parties entirely detached from Scouting. But setting aside the gloom and doom ... OA will soon be forced to abandon its Indian-themed ceremonies - too much cultural appropriation for this PC era. Whether OA continues to exist at all after that - who knows? God is next on the chopping block. I fully expect that Duty to God will become an optional component, if not e

Every married man knows that it is marriage that teaches men how to be subordinate to women. The boys will learn that soon enough.

Of course boys need to respect and learn how to work with women. Who disagrees with that? These days, boys are surrounded by women in every aspect of there lives. During 7 years of schooling, my son has had a grand total of one male teacher so far. You don't think the idea of working with women as his superiors is getting pounded into his head hard enough yet? The great thing about Scouting was that boys could learn from male role models (for a change) as they negotiate a path through life. *sigh*

Neither do I. I work for the Chartered Organization, not the scout execs.

By the way, I don’t worry about what a DE or DD thinks.

unfortunately our troop is not thrifty. It's easy for some people to spend money when it's not theirs. But I thought I'd post some of my ideas, maybe they will be helpful for someone. Our suburb community has a local facebook page. If your community has one, I suggest always asking for used donated supplies before spending any cash. This requires some planning because it won't be instant. But for example, if a cooler or a lantern is needed, just put a post on facebook asking if anyone has a dusty cooler sitting in their garage that hasn't been used in years. If you want help, you ne

From the press release, alcohol will not be offered at Jamboree - bravo! However, I think most of the furor is centered on condoms at Jamboree. I see no direct mention of that hot potato by BSA or WOSM. They were clear about no alcohol, so why not be clear about the most volatile topic (condoms). Maybe I missed something in a veiled reference like "adhere to the existing health requirements developed to address the needs of international health norms in a manner more aligned with local practices"? Is it beyond their ability to just say what they mean?

Fear is probably the closer emotion. My scenario is 80% membership loss and FOS loss drives consolidation. Which drives cost cuts which drives service reductions. Community units get less attention. Their favorite camps get sold. Attitudes wane. The LDS subsidized scouting from AS to ID. I don't see a replacement. IDK what the critical mass is but it's not clear to me that any council easily survives even a 10 or 15% immediate membership drop. Beyond that I think conservatives in the vast red middle of the country will check out. Not immediately but in a couple years. The old g

you'd be surprised...National, Region, and Area executives can't force a sale, but they can be very "persuasive" to Scout Executives and exec boards

I'm actually upset with this..... Boys Life was actually one of the only magazines I knew geared towards young boys. There was 0 need to mess with it. Add a "girls life" if you wanted to be inclusive.

They have to change the program so that they'll love the program. It reminds me of we have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it.

I was being kind...also haven't you been paying attention??? THOUSANDS of GIRLS are signing up, plus the LIONS, plus the FAMILIES, and did I mention the GIRLS, and STEM, and SOCCER, and LEARNING FOR LIFE, why the tent is HEEWGE and will need to get HEEEWGER, what with all of this influx BSA (current corporate name but not married to it), will need to no doubt add (wait for it) SUMMIT WEST to handle the need for High Adventure

well at least Pedro isn't wearing a skort. Yet

Branding imbeciles! What do they think girls who will engage the program to it's fullest really want? {I'm sorry moderators, I am really doing my best to not cast aspersions, so if you can suggest a more scout-like synonym I will use it.}

I believe the UK has about 100 "units" going, of 36 youth plus adults, Surrey, my county, have Units 64, 65, and 66. Not sure which county has the next number, or the next,....or....the one after that... I know the three Surrey units have made fundraising patches, all units will I guess. I've bought the Unit 66 one (so far). Not nearly Route 66 enough for my liking.... Here's 64's Can't find 65s.

God I hope I am on that list...wonder if there is a patch??? Seems to be a beer for the club

I honestly don't know how that works. I'd be interested to know though. Jamborees don't come cheap to run. What I do know is some recent jamborees (Japan, UK, Netherlands) used the normal venue for music festivals and because they came with existing infrastructure it saved quite a lot of money. The UK venue is the site of the V music festival. Many of the jamboree infrastructure costs were met by Virgin who run the festival. I guess you don't have that advantage.

I think that that is a great analogy... also, put the shoe on the other foot. Would we want other hosts to be able to push their values and religious mores on our scouts at a World Jamboree? Put another way, how would people here feel about the host nation's religious views if the event were say, joinly hosted by Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, and they prohibited female Scouters and Jewish Scouts from attending?

BSA can indeed influence but it can't dictate. Numbers wise BSA makes up approx 7% of members. Probably more financially but ultimately has only a certain amount of leverage. In addition the management of the jamboree isn't purely BSA. There are three host nations and WOSM involved. It's not a BSA event that the world is invited to, it's a WOSM event at a BSA site. There are a lot of parallels with hosting the Olympics. The host country only has so much wriggle room. IOC rules sit at the top. I imagine that BSA have signed all kinds of legal contracts with WOSM to host this and simply refusing

"Win all you can" is dropped in the new "Wood Badge" syllabus currently being field tested.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Well, you probably won't want to hear this, but when folks like me were arguing in favor of gay scouts, gay scouters, and girls in the BSA, we weren't just talking about it on Internet forums. We were writing letters (not emails, typed letters, hand-signed and mailed) to various members of the Executive Board. We were donating money to groups like Scouts for Equality. We were signing petitions, making phine calls, and speaking up in any way that we could. This forum is great for discussion, but it doesn't actually give any of us a voice in any debate in a way that actually sways opinion.

And this is the sad truth. It would seem that national is now no better than a political party. Endlessly spinning the facts, ever worrying about the "optics" misspeaking telling lies when ever they believe it will further their agenda, playing with survey data. Ever since I first took the Eagle charge years ago, I have tried to remember that I represented all other scouts past and present. Therefor I tried always to speak the truth as I saw it in all humility. and told the Eagles I mentored to do the same. Now I feel that I have been played for a sucker and a fool.

Our CSE.... maybe needs to read up on the Oath and Law as he makes statements

Maybe, but it takes real courage to wear one of these in public :).

I was under the impression that they increased the membership fees in order to rebuild the insurance fund. Guess not.

So so true - Missed opportunity to brand the Girls program for 11 - 17 year olds as something new, same requirements, but they will be the program not called Girl Scouts. Then there is recognition of the differences, Boy Scouts stays the same...win win Same with youth oriented magazine. Though honestly with the membership price increase we may keep annual troop dues the same and have the upcharge for Boys Life (or whatever Life) The National Meeting is still going one...so who knows

His name is Creek Stewart. He's been associated with the BSA at least informally for years.

apparently it's all Trail Life's fault now, https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/blog/clarifying-misinformation-about-2019-world-scout-jamboree-policies/

More likely they have their hands full with lousy units.

Agree Even though our CO has the largest unit(s) in the district (Cubs and Boy Scouts) and highest FOS and community service hours I can honestly say in the last 10 years we have only seen the DE or any professional outside of RT or when they wander by our winter COH (read money time) exactly zero times. Granted we do not do any camporees, district events, council camporamas, etc. As for the fabled white unicorn of Scouting (the unit commissioner) maybe twice in the same period. They may be scared of us and we hope to keep it that way

Regarding the camping within 2 years requirement, that has been around for some time. Sadly some Scout units do not camp much, so that had to put that in.

That's pretty good and I must agree. I was talking to my daughter about some things that bothered her and I realized that she was confusing bullying with being offended. I think bullying is being so over used today that it's loosing the real value of meaning. Real Life is hard and to survive we must learn how to deal with those things that cause us stress. I have said often that a troop environment is real life scaled down to a boys size. The typical troop program puts the scouts in a lot small stressful situations to practice and learn how to handle big stressful situations in their

Is it? We've had a few comments on this site over the years about how some places in Europe the boys and girls just pile into a common tent. If the argument to go co-ed is "the rest of the world does it" doesn't it follow that anything the rest of the world does should be acceptable here? E.g. condoms and alcohol at scout events?

Not to change the subject, but curious. A) what does the new YPT say about Scouters over 21 contacting Scouters 18-20 and B) what does it say about FEMALE Scouters 18-20 working with a boys' troop? Back on topic, BSA will take the word of a Scout over an adult any day. And even when a criminal investigation exonerates the accused, they not only lost all respect and credibility in their community, but may not be allowed back inteh organization. Saw that happen first hand to a freind.

Parents are a big part of the problem today. My father is a District advancement chair and also approved Eagle projects and sets up EBORs. The number of times he receives emails/calls from parents vs scouts is ridiculous. One example... a mom called to get an update on an approval for her sons Eagle project. My father asked to speak to her son directly (who was with her) and she refused as he isn’t comfortable talking with adults. Eventually she relented and the Scout did fine. Parents should let their scouts breath and even fail to achieve Eagle. That could be a great life lesson. Pad

It's been four years since I retired from the military. Reflecting on my last several years on active duty, I can safely say it was a crap shoot when sizing up new enlistees that claimed to be Eagle. Frankly, some were pretty sorry specimens. Too many by my reckoning. Lacking in self-motivation, physical fitness, professionalism, learning ability, resilience, ability to get along with others, etc. Yet they usually possessed a false sense of achievement and entitlement. These guys were dragged across the finish line by somebody. Others were clever and knew it. Barely concealed

From the link: "No one in a Scouting setting has been seriously injured in one of these to date, and we prefer to be proactive and cautious in our approach to this activity. Hence a multidiscipline task force comprised of program, marketing, development, legal, risk management, and health and safety professionals and volunteers has evaluated the risks of their use, reviewed their accident history, as well as the positions of various state and federal agencies on their use. This task force has come to the conclusion that the orbs (of any size) do not have a part in either the program or as an