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Last time I camped out with the troop, sitting round the campfire, some of the older scouts asked for a scout story from the old days. So I told them one or two , then turned to go. They asked for another, then another. Surprised and somewhat pleased they were so interested I never once thought I was getting myself in trouble. But the next PLC it seemed all the scouts demanded to know why they couldn't do fun stuff like Mr Oldscout did. I dont think I'm gonna be allowed to tell stories without supervision anymore. And I had left out all the crazy ones. When I joi6 points
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I am so sorry to see that this thread has degenerated into a war of ideologies and attempts to put down the beliefs of others. I say, let's take these discussions either to private threads or elsewhere, and leave this thread to the original topic. Our Church is pulling out of the Boy Scouting program, for various reasons - animosity towards the beliefs of others is not one of them. our diverging beliefs cannot be allowed to breed contention, anger, or judgement. If we cannot respect each other, even and especially with our different beliefs, then neither the values of the Boy Scouts OR the LDS4 points
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How about swinging from a rope, from a wobbly tree limb, into a swimming hole, while skinny dipping, as other scouts are trying to pelt you mid-air with water balloons. We did that. (Moderators should feel free to delete this post. I'll understand.)3 points
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Greetings from Omaha, NE. Proud Eagle Scout and father. As of March of this year I am the new Cubmaster for my son’s Pack which also happens to be the pack of my youth (Pack 492 Mid-America Council Omaha). My wife and I bought a house in my old neighborhood. I am an Eagle Scout (class of ‘97, Troop 492) and after a twenty year hiatus it’s great to be back. It didn’t take but one recruiting night last fall to remind me of what I had missed and as timing would have it, the previous Cubmaster was ready to step back as he and his son are crossing over next February. So here I am. It’s great to b2 points
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Absolutely agree. There were (and are) things in place to handle most if not all of the various membership issues as the local CO has the say as to who can and cannot be a member. National BSA sort of muddied the waters, kind of like they are doing now. With the addition of girls, and there will not be enough units or units will go COED or something in the middle. BSA National hopes to be all things to all people but also falls back when convenient on "local unit control". I have never seen a company, organization, or group that spends as much time and energy hoping to placate and ap2 points
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As it pertains to morals, there are many defining entities. Each family creates their own definition. Each school, college, and workplace creates their own. Your local community has certain mores that it loosely follows, each faith (and you might even say each individual congregation) has their own - and of course BSA has one. In most cases, there is probably significant overlap - probably to the tune of 95% or better. Things like don't lie - it isn't against the law to lie (in general) but most people likely find it immoral to do with any frequency. In my household, we don't have swear w2 points
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So I realize I have been too negative. While GSUSA's current focus on civic engagement is not what I am particularly looking for for my daughter, some families may very well be looking for this. Expecially now that girls will have two scouting organizations to choose from (BSA and GSUSA) it is good that GSUSA is being clear about their emphases, for example: "G.I.R.L. Agenda 2018: Leading Change Through Civic Action". This will help families select the program that they feel is most appropriate for their girls, instead of being disconcerted that the GSUSA their girls have joined has mod2 points
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As the District Commissioner for a large geographical, but sparsely populated district with only eight registered units, running a roundtable using the BSA guidelines is not feasible. There are not enough people to break out into smaller groups, so we do a combined Roundtable. Our normal roundtable starts with every unit leader present giving a short summary of what their unit did over the past month, followed by the DE putting out information about the council's activities, a short training session based on prior requests or changes in the program and then we throw the floor open to anyone2 points
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In my mind, it boils down to the declaration “a Scout is morally straight”. In earlier days, it was clear that BSA placed gay/trans outside the boundaries of being morally straight. Now reversed, BSA has declared gay/trans as morally straight. It’s no more complicated than that. BSA has made a conscious choice. In a calculated gamble, BSA deliberately changed sides in the culture wars (to the joy of some and the disappointment of others). It is impossible for BSA to serve two masters on this issue. In earlier times, liberals/progressives voted with their feet and dollars against2 points
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The amount of pride in any accomplishment is directly proportional to the amount of effort expended in achieving it. I still remember pacing back and forth waiting my turn outside the room where the troop committee held its monthly boards. Every scout in the troop was always tested on something. Almost always it was our weakest skill. It seemed that the committee actually asked our patrol leaders about us. Sneaky old adults that they were! If we failed and I mean totally failed not just struggled a wee bit we were kindly asked if we felt that we truly deserved the rank. I2 points
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[Rmeints, my sarcasm below isn't directed at you, but at the status quo of the BSA today....] So those grand gents, including BP himself, grilled Arthur for several hours. And--gasp--they RETESTED his scout skills! The horror, the horror.... Didn't Arthur already have a card or a piece of paper showing that he was signed off on those skills, thus exempting him from any future retest should a bunch of old mean guys demand it? What about his feelings? What about his stress level? Surely they provided him regular breaks and a compassion puppy. Perhaps a cry room? Did his mother inte2 points
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Which brings us back to my previous statement. You can't have a moral code in a totally inclusive group. It's just not possible.2 points
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So much for having "wide latitude" in interpreting the scout oath and law. It seems that "wide latitude" only applies to those who express liberal views.2 points
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Thanks. The previous two administrations seemed faster on this. My cheeky son sent requests to the President as well as the Special Council and saved opposite pages in his scrap book for them LOL.2 points
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...If the Boy Scouts want to attract a new generation of members, they’ll need to stand for something more than inclusion. Because being inclusive doesn’t make you relevant. If I were calling the shots, I’d take a stand against the safe space movement and everything it embodies. And I’d do it in the most public way possible. But of course, that might also require a level of risk completely inconsistent with current orthodoxy. As we all know, in 1974, a chipped tooth or a black eye didn’t lead to lawsuit, and today, I’m pretty sure a boxing ring and a trip to the shooting range would make1 point
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Variations of orienteering - find the clues, the food, canoe orienteering are popular. Our PLC was brainstorming about a night-only orienteering. During the day they would set up solar panels to charge flashlight and phone batteries, "like The Martian". Oh forgot, they would only eat potatoes.1 point
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I don't think the youth of today have that much higher expectations than we had (in my case 40 years ago when I was a scout). I do think the current crop of Scout leaders has been trained to be less adventurous. We have the GTSS, which is pretty stringent at times. That said, based on talking to one of my sister-in-laws who is a GSA leader, BSA has almost no risk aversion. They are more cautious than we are.1 point
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https://www.nccs-bsa.org/index.php/national-css-administration/bylaws Voting members of the NCCS are appointed by diocese, by their various bishops. An episcopal liaison (currently Bishop Guglielmone of Charleston, SC) is appointed by the USCCB.1 point
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...and Scoutmaster Minutes can dispense with the platitudes and instead throw a straight doctrinal punch! "Don’t be too critical of the barrier, it’s the only thing that’s keeping you from being devoured." -Von G. Keech "Brethren, stand close together and lift where you stand." -Dieter F. Uchtdorf "Beware of the evil behind the smiling eyes." -Neil L. Andersen1 point
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I'd welcome us to focus on the 95% we have in common. I think that would be wonderful.1 point
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Many kids get sound moral teaching at home, or at a religious institution. For them, the scout law is merely re-inforcing what they should already be learning, and applying it in practical situations. It is for the minority of kids that don't get sound moral teaching at home or church (or synagogue or temple or school or . . .) that even the "95% of things we have in common" that they can get through scouting is much much better than nothing. These kids can benefit from learning "I will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring . . ." (current GSUSA1 point
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Lief Ericson explorer, Boy Scout*, Coffee achiever. *post humus, honorary1 point
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See..that's not accurate because if it was really the Methodists they would not actually have voted. The skorts issue would have been discussed, then talked about, then discussed again, then a sub-committee of Bishops would have looked at it, then it would have been brought up at the next annual conference, then there would have been a motion to table and vote at the next General Conference if so warranted by the sub committee1 point
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@Hawkwin This is a thoughtful argument that deserves further consideration. I'm not saying I necessarily agree, but I need to think more about what you have said. But if morally straight is entirely dependent on personal faith and individual interpretation, does the term mean anything at all?1 point
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I wouldn't dismiss anybody...you don't want to attract attention as a problem. I have known different receptions at different places by different RC bishops. It mostly boiled down to if the bishop had been a scout and had fond memories of it.1 point
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BSA needs to try harder if they are serious in making that statement. Our troop desires the same boy-only Scouting experience that we have always known. On the local unit level only, that is still permitted, but at every other level of Scouting, events and programs will now be co-ed (including summer camps). For national, council, and district, co-ed is now the norm. Boy-only is a fringe option for local units only. Girls are now heavily featured in all BSA promotions. Boys are being left out in the cold, and that is very sad for me.1 point
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Ok then, I moved original topic content into the Open Discussion forum. Please stay on topic and observe the Scout Oath and Law. Make @The Latin Scot proud! Thank you for your patience. These 24? pages is the off-topic content. IMO, with some exceptions, this collection of off-topic discussions was frank and professional. Thank you.1 point
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The Catholic Church has many, many organizations, groups, and orders that are sometimes aligned with Rome and sometimes not. Surprisingly diverse. Just get a group of Priests, Nuns, and Monks together and you will find out. The United Methodist Church (which is a CO of many units) has multiple Scouting oversight groups but no one in our UMC sponsored Troop ever recalls a single contact, letter, or brochure since we have been around since 1955. The United Methodist Men has this: http://www.gcumm.org/scouting/ They mostly like any group.They seem to parrot whatever National says.1 point
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It doesn't have any authority to speak for the Catholic Church, no. In my opinion it is basically an arm of the BSA (a trademark search will show that the BSA owns the trademark to the organization's name); it doesn't work with non-BSA scouting associations (not even the Girl Scouts of the USA) or recognize them in any way.1 point
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Copied the about us section... WHAT IS THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC COMMITTEE ON SCOUTING®? The National Catholic Committee on Scouting® (NCCS) is a church committee of concerned Catholic lay people and clergy who see as their mission the constructive use of the program of the Boy Scouts of America as a viable form of youth ministry with the Catholic youth of our nation. The committee, which is advisory to the Boy Scouts of America, seeks to sustain and strengthen the relationship between BSA and the Catholic Church in the United States. Through interaction and dialogue with the Se1 point
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Your post demonstrates that you understand absolutely nothing about our religious beliefs. Our religious beliefs are a 24/7 type of thing. We don't just go to church on Sunday and set them aside the rest of the week. They follow us everywhere we go and exists in everything we do. There is no chance whatsoever that we would set aside our morals and values. It is a waste of breath for anyone to suggest that we should.1 point
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Until I met a scout that was being openly held back from advancement in his troop and discriminated by both adults and youth in his old troop did it really hit home. He is a great young man, very giving, leads without being asked. On his own he sends helpful information to the troop like packing lists and meeting plans. Attends church regularly, his church doesn't care about his sexuality. And I don't either. He is almost an Eagle now. I am happy that we were able to accept him in our troop and watch this young man grow.1 point
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Well, there had been a number of similar organizations appearing all over the country in the years prior to the BSA's founding - the Woodcraft Indians, Sons of Daniel Boone, etc. The Boy Scouts of America simply conglomerated the majority of them into one organization, giving it an immediately large starting population already. Such groups had been making headlines too with the success they had been having and the good it was doing for boys across the nation, so by the time Eldred was ready for the first Board of Review, Scouting was already square in the public eye.1 point
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Becoming the first Eagle Scout was absolutely a big deal. When Arthur Eldred was announced as the first official Eagle Scout there were letters of protest from at least two other scouts (who ended up being the second and third official Eagles). It made national news. Arthur's Eagle Board of Review was conducted by James E. West, Dan Beard, Ernest Seton Thompson, and Lord Baden-Powell himself, who just happened to be in New York as part of a nationwide speaking tour. Arthur passed with flying colors, but he was put through his paces for several hours, including having to start a fire with a bow1 point
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To be fair, BSA's system isn't exactly state of the art either. I can verify that someone is an Eagle Scout, but I can't get a report of all the Eagle Scouts that have come from my troop.1 point
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Lied to the committee? I'd ignore all the misdirection about who should and should not talk to the candidate. He didn't shade the truth to his best buddy about kissing a girl. He lied. About advancement. To the committee. For safety, he has to re-start the project to approved specs. But to escape further consequence for lying? I thought he was up for the highest honor in scouting...1 point
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Yes. We have a strong moral code. It just doesn't demand morality. What gibberish.1 point
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I suppose the short answer is "pick one and live with the consequences." In 2000 the BSA picked one, took it all the way to SCOTUS, and won. The consequences were shaming in the media, law suits, and open council defiance. As a result, in 2013 the BSA picked a new morality. More outrage from the left, Trail Life USA was formed. Two years later they picked another new morality. The left cheered, consternation from the largest CO. Two years later they picked yet another new morality. Consequence, largest CO is making its exit. Next year? Who knows?1 point
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We define it through the law and oath. Of course everyone has their opinions on scout like behavior as well, but the BSA does reference doing our best to god. God is the holding place for being a moral program. Once god is taken out, man becomes the source for morality. As I said in another post, once man takes credit for good and bad behavior, it's over because how can a scout find reference of his behavior when it depends on his scoutmasters emotions of the moment. Pragmatically, only god or God can ever be the source of morality in a values based program. Barry1 point
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If you feel this way, then you should be arguing the case that BSA should have no moral code. You should not be imposing your moral code on us by insisting that we respect something that we feel is the very definition of immoral. You shouldn't be asking that we keep quiet about it either.1 point
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I agree with that. We have no argument there. The new policy is no more non-denominational than the old one. BSA switched sides. It is still favoring the beliefs of some religions, denominations, etc. over the beliefs of others. Only now, BSA is on the other side. If BSA had amended the scout oath/law to completely remove "morally straight" from all of its literature and policies, that would have been non-denominational. It didn't do that. BSA did not want to face the hailstorm of criticism it would have undoubtedly received from such an announcement. BSA has, in effect, declar1 point
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I'm a CC and I think the Committee needs to take a step back here. A large part of Scouting is providing an environment where Scouts can learn and grow. You've got a young scout who made a mistake. Let the scout and the SM deal with it and move on. The point here is to coach the scout, help him to see his error, and then figure out how to move forward.1 point
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The uber compensated CEOs and other execs is unique to the US. Other economic powerhouses like Germany, Japan, etc... do not have trouble finding top tier executives and the disparity between their compensation and avg workers is a fraction of the US. Our companies do not need to compensate the execs at the current rate to draw top tier talent.1 point
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We'll I'm glad that I mis-read that then. Had this funny thing happen a few years back. My in-laws are some of the most devout, religious people I've ever met. Go to church every Sunday, sing in the choir, serve on the church board, have the minister over for Christmas dinner. Mother in law is a part time employee of the church office. Father in law is literally a preacher's son who almost became a minister himself. They have a daughter - who they love and adore. My sister-in-law in fact. Turns out that she's gay. Now I suppose you could say that my in-laws are morally bankrupt an1 point
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It matters just as much. You claim that: "BP's choice to have two separate groups was a thought out analysis of how by boys and girls learn" is no different than my claim that: "BP's choice to have two separate groups was simply a bi-product of the times." This is an important analysis because we live in 2018, not 1907. So, understanding the context for the decision is important if we want to claim to continue to operate under his vision. I'd be willing to stipulate that we really cannot know what his motivation was in 1907. But, it's a two way street.1 point
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The “tap out” is optional. It is not an official ceremony of the OA like Ordeal or Brotherhood. Many Lodges do different things depending on size. Some Lodges do a Lodge wide call out, others do it by chapter and yet others have no ceremony at all. If they were elected, they are eligible to complete their Ordeal. I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a Lodge Adviser.1 point