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  1. Or maybe we could remember the Scout Oath and Law when commenting on a Scout Forum
    8 points
  2. We define it through the law and oath. Of course everyone has their opinions on scout like behavior as well, but the BSA does reference doing our best to god. God is the holding place for being a moral program. Once god is taken out, man becomes the source for morality. As I said in another post, once man takes credit for good and bad behavior, it's over because how can a scout find reference of his behavior when it depends on his scoutmasters emotions of the moment. Pragmatically, only god or God can ever be the source of morality in a values based program. Barry
    3 points
  3. Having defined rules and enforcing them with boys is already difficult enough without introducing moral relativism.
    3 points
  4. As I (and others) said in this forum while the gay-exclusion policy was in effect, the BSA was not really acting in a non-denominational way by having that policy. It was enforcing the beliefs of some religions, denominations, etc. over the anti-discriminatory beliefs of others. I also don't think the exclusion of atheists is a "moral policy," meaning that I don't think it is compelled by moral principles. I know people who profess a belief in God, who are not very moral people, and people who are atheists who I consider to be very moral people. And if you look at atheism as a religi
    3 points
  5. Not too long ago the BSA didn't allow gays in the program. That was a moral policy in a nondenominational program. Atheist are still not allowed as members in the BSA. I would say that is also a moral policy in a nondenominational program. I think everyone has their limits of immorality, even atheist. The BSA has reached that limit for a lot folks. Barry
    3 points
  6. I do appreciate peoples beliefs, but I don't appreciate people telling everyone that we all should follow his beliefs. Scouting is interfaith always has been. I accept people having different beliefs than mine and am doing this for the youth. I do not see the value in chastising people for sticking with the program for the youth. If you can't follow it, then find an organization that you can follow without throwing stones.
    3 points
  7. I'm a CC and I think the Committee needs to take a step back here. A large part of Scouting is providing an environment where Scouts can learn and grow. You've got a young scout who made a mistake. Let the scout and the SM deal with it and move on. The point here is to coach the scout, help him to see his error, and then figure out how to move forward.
    3 points
  8. Just curious (in general terms) what the project was and what the issue was. Not discounting anyone's input, but we had a Scout building a bridge, had the plans, then a structural engineer (also volunteer) at the beneficiary wanted to be involved and it went sideways from there. He basically wanted a footbridge that could hold a car, while it was in fact a short footbridge on a trail. It needed to be built to "his" standards. Point is there are typically minimum structural standards and then you may have someone who has their standard because, well they know best and we must acknowledge th
    3 points
  9. BSA is non-denominational. Following the old book is not required. I have no more business questioning the practices of Catholics or Hindu than I do trying to tell other people that they must accept my (or my faiths) interpretation of sin. Again, I am not going to judge others and while you state it is clear to you - it is only clear to those that follow that faith. With hundreds of Christian denominations, there are going to be more that are wrong than are right when it comes to what is actually "Biblical" and I am sure each one thinks they have the correct interpretation - and they can't all
    3 points
  10. Greetings from Omaha, NE. Proud Eagle Scout and father. As of March of this year I am the new Cubmaster for my son’s Pack which also happens to be the pack of my youth (Pack 492 Mid-America Council Omaha). My wife and I bought a house in my old neighborhood. I am an Eagle Scout (class of ‘97, Troop 492) and after a twenty year hiatus it’s great to be back. It didn’t take but one recruiting night last fall to remind me of what I had missed and as timing would have it, the previous Cubmaster was ready to step back as he and his son are crossing over next February. So here I am. It’s great to b
    2 points
  11. I am so sorry to see that this thread has degenerated into a war of ideologies and attempts to put down the beliefs of others. I say, let's take these discussions either to private threads or elsewhere, and leave this thread to the original topic. Our Church is pulling out of the Boy Scouting program, for various reasons - animosity towards the beliefs of others is not one of them. our diverging beliefs cannot be allowed to breed contention, anger, or judgement. If we cannot respect each other, even and especially with our different beliefs, then neither the values of the Boy Scouts OR the LDS
    2 points
  12. True, but he would have also seen the computer as a form of witchcraft and burnt us all at the stake. The death warrant would have been beautifully written though, so there is that.
    2 points
  13. Actually the CO's do it all the time. Many COs use the scouting program as their youth program. In general families looking for a troop already know this by the CO's name or reputation. But having specific expectation of their scout unit members and imposing their behavior expectations is not unusual. Barry
    2 points
  14. A flexible moral code? That's not a code. That's a wish-list for being undisciplined.
    2 points
  15. You're confusing your statements. We have a very strong moral code. The Oath and Law define our code. But the code is for both the adults and scouts. The program is based on scouts learning from their decisions and from watching their role models. The role model adults are the judges of the scout 's decisions. I'm not sure how you think adults don't impose their moral code. In fact, the strong impact of role modeling is why I don't agree with allowing gay scout leaders. They don't have to perform actual sex in front of scouts to express agreement for the behavior. And please, I'm not trying to
    2 points
  16. Boy, am I coming into this late. 21 pages? Discussion (?) of reasons why LDS is developing it's own youth program rather than adapting the BSA to it's purpose? Do I have those things right? Morality and sin and God's approval or not discerned? Wow. Our Jewish and Muslim and Hindu and Taoist brothers and sisters must be enjoying this. Anybody want a BLT for lunch? Left hand Scout Handshake? Working on your Karma account? Does the CO still define it's membership? Leadership? Is that still in the Charter Agreement? "Enquiring minds (if we still have any) want
    2 points
  17. So much for having "wide latitude" in interpreting the scout oath and law. It seems that "wide latitude" only applies to those who express liberal views.
    2 points
  18. It's not just that he insulted forum members - it's the blatant attacks on the BSA, it's leadership, and by inference those that support it. Calling the BSA and its leaders immoral and wishing it's demise is a problem. There are many more ways to make your point without having to revert to that.
    2 points
  19. No, removal of a specific ban is not the same thing as an affirmative statement that something is morally straight. There are many things we don't outright ban that many faiths would believe are immoral behaviors - like premarital activities and consumption of alcohol. BSA doesn't ban either of those - but then not every faith believes such behavior is immoral. Could toss in "swear words" in that bucket too - not a banned behavior. Morally straight is and always should have been in line with your personal faith - which is why we don't have some long code of behavior that either bans vario
    2 points
  20. @hardrockscout , welcome to scouter.com . Are there more hours in the day in Arkansas?
    2 points
  21. @Tom_Batson welcome to scouter.com. I met your brother Billy. SHAAAAZAMM.
    2 points
  22. Not complicated: SM coaches the boy. If something comes up that is over the SM's head, he may call the DE, UC, or go to round-table and talk to the DAC, or simply ask the CC the best course of action. But at the end of the day, how the SM coaches the boy is his call. CC "coaches" the parent. If something comes up that is over the CC's head, the above resources as well as the COR and are available to him/her. Under no circumstances is a parent to be belligerent to any adult or youth. Period. COR represents the CO. So if this matter involves them, he/she may have something to s
    2 points
  23. One of the coolest stories from last year: First all-Muslim Boy Scout troop in northeast Ohio camps, serves and prays https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/12/14/first-all-muslim-boy-scout-troop-in-northeast-ohio-camps-performs-service-and-prays/ The more shared experiences we have, the less there is to divide us.
    2 points
  24. Now that we have the context, I'm reminded of a joke: There were two white Christian men, Adam and Jack, whose plane crashed in the desert. Luckily, they survived unharmed. As they traveled through the hot desert looking for food and water, they gave up and sat down, thinking of what to do. As the dust in the air settled, they could see a mosque ahead. Jack became very hopeful but Adam said ''Muslims are there. They might help us if we say we are Muslim.'' Jack said ''No way, I won't say I'm Muslim, I'm gonna be honest''. So Adam and Jack went to the Mosque and were greeted by a
    2 points
  25. That's my feeling too. While I understand that people disagree with the recent decisions, all this talk of the BSA becoming immoral is out of character with the non-denominational tone of the Scouting movement.
    2 points
  26. And berate the leaders of an organisation they want nothing to do with. Strange way of showing it. Gods Gays and Girls. A heady combination.
    2 points
  27. I’ll drink to that... um, well, you know what I mean...
    2 points
  28. Are you kidding? You don't think there are millions of people who would like to take the job for less than $700,000? If there aren't, I would be more than happy to volunteer for the job myself. I'll even settle for a measly half-mill. I know that it is a big sacrifice, and a big drop from my usual teacher's salary, but I'm willing to bite the bullet if it will help out the scouting movement.
    2 points
  29. Thanks. The previous two administrations seemed faster on this. My cheeky son sent requests to the President as well as the Special Council and saved opposite pages in his scrap book for them LOL.
    2 points
  30. Umm guys? Can we take a deep breath here? What we have here is failure to understand that we have two different paradigms. LegacyLost is clearly going on the belief that the Bible is the Word of God, and as such it is to be studied and followed. Granting him his premise all his arguments are logical and coherent. How can one say " I love God but I refuse to do what He says" ? I can only assume that Firestone believes that Paul of Tarsus, who penned half of the new testament, is not to be taken seriously here and has somehow come to terms with that. Very well I
    2 points
  31. Hello Everyone, I just discovered this forum while searching for the answer to a know requirement and I'm glad I did! My name is Art, I am currently a Scoutmaster in Sherwood, Arkansas and a Tiger Den Leader in Jacksonville, Arkansas. I am currently a full time college student, working on a Bachelor's in HR management, and am fully employed by the Arkansas Air National Guard. I hope to learn quite abit and improve myself as a leader from other knowledgeable sources!
    1 point
  32. I guess I should have clarified. I meant OUR (adult) schedule and where everything was located for our own reference. Something that I don't recall from my time as a Scout that we have to consider as adults is medications. Depending on the camp, either we can do it or it has to be administered by the camp staff. Another wrinkle to iron out. Although I can foresee some first-year campers needing some guidance if they are having to go solo to their first activity site. They will be coached on asking who's going to the ABC Area next and partnering up with others for those walks. You never kn
    1 point
  33. No, actually, what B-P actually did do matters much much more than what you or I or anyone else thinks he might do today.
    1 point
  34. Taurus Excretus. BSA had a moral code to be envied; until '"acting like a Boy Scout" became a pejorative. And some used that latitude to the extreme. "My moral code is to have no morals, but since that's my moral code; I can be an Eagle scout!" And BSA allowed it. The basic strength of a good morale code is that it doesn't change. Through good times and bad, whether popular or unpopular, these are my morals. Some things I will always do. Some things I will never do. You get strength and affirmation from others who have the same code that you do. BSA hasn't changed their
    1 point
  35. Threads like this always crash to the lowest base intellectual level after about two or three pages.
    1 point
  36. He told me I hate God. That's pretty direct and personal, and I don't think there are many people of faith who would take that lightly.
    1 point
  37. I agree with that. We have no argument there. The new policy is no more non-denominational than the old one. BSA switched sides. It is still favoring the beliefs of some religions, denominations, etc. over the beliefs of others. Only now, BSA is on the other side. If BSA had amended the scout oath/law to completely remove "morally straight" from all of its literature and policies, that would have been non-denominational. It didn't do that. BSA did not want to face the hailstorm of criticism it would have undoubtedly received from such an announcement. BSA has, in effect, declar
    1 point
  38. Eagle still seems to work for Yale: In getting accepted to Yale, his Eagle Scout project video was ‘a difference-maker’ https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/04/19/getting-accepted-yale-eagle-scout-project-video-difference-maker/ Eagle and he helped vets and still got into Yale. Hope still exists!
    1 point
  39. It's best to have them on your side. If they are active, I would get them involved, but the majority of charters around here don't get that involved. This is really about safety in the unit. Both adults and scouts need to feel the unit is a safe place. You have a better feel for the temperments of all involved. This may be nothing more than sitting down with the parents with a cup of coffee. But we learned the hard way to deal with these things quickly before emotions escalate. Barry
    1 point
  40. You have to decide was the intent malicious and self-serving or just scout-stupid with unintended (safety) consequences? Scouts do stupid all the time. He has to do a re-start anyway. Separate the boy's project from the parents issue. This is pretty speculative advice. Was this a dock or walkway or deck or structure? Who did he lie about meeting with? The SM, the beneficiary, or some engineer? Did the parent encourage him? Has he poisoned his relationship with the beneficiary? Re-starting a project, redoing the paperwork approval process, or even starting a completely new
    1 point
  41. He is not his father. One of his father's favorite verses: He must become greater; I must become less” (John 3:30). And he was very humble and accepting of all people while standing his ground. @LegacyLost it is still a free country. You are allowed to take your marbles, and children, elsewhere--good luck and good bless. Some of us will continue the good fight from where we stand. I do not understand why you even came on this forum? Join Trail Life or come up with something better.
    1 point
  42. Peninsula, Point Beach, Kohler-Andrae, Blue Mounds, Kettle Moraine North and South. If you can get into Peninsula you would not be dissappointed. Not sure how far you are willing to drive or where u are coming from.
    1 point
  43. Scout shop also sells premade ones as well.https://www.scoutshop.org/den-advancement-chart-620579.html
    1 point
  44. I, cynically, see two reasons for this 1) This lets them include lots more women, including those who were only a Brownie for only a year. and 2) The Gold Award was introduced in 1980, so the very oldest Gold Award recipients are in their early 50's now. This would rule out many older women. Moreover there is not good, short, phrase meaning "person who earned the Gold Award". The best I am aware of are "Gold Awardee" or "Gold Award recipient". None of these roles off the tongue as smoothly as "Eagle Scout" or "Girl Scout" or "[adjective] Scout"
    1 point
  45. On Saturday, June 10th, 2017 I was standing in the parking lot near the entrance to Camp Rainey Mountain with a cup of coffee in my hand. It was early in the morning and the Troop was preparing to depart for home. A couple of rambunctious Scouts were horsing around and one accidentally bumped my elbow causing me to dump my coffee all over my Class A. I thought for sure I'd have a horrendous stain, but somehow to this day it's barely noticeable. The stains on my shirt have better stories than the patches. And they bring back far better memories.
    1 point
  46. I was raised Southern Baptist in the deep South where I was still paddled in school and wearing shorts was not permitted in school (showed too much skin). I remember being told to break my rock and roll records because when they were played backwards, they told us to do sinful things. Hating the sinner was a big deal with my church and religion. It wasn't until much later in life that I learned that we should have hated the sin and not the sinner. Even if you believe being gay is a sin, it is no worse a sin than any others - and yet we are still told to love the sinner. If you are a
    1 point
  47. Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact. In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead. The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue. At least two adults are required on every BSA outing. During that outing, there should be no one-on-one contact between an adult and a youth. Parents and youth are advised to follow this and other Youth Protection policies for the overall safety of all involved. But there might be moments
    1 point
  48. This is another argument that has become very popular among the liberals. Anyone who disagrees with them are haters.
    1 point
  49. Very true. I also like their approach of the women being identified as "Girl Scouts" and not utilizing the false exclusivity of Gold Award only, like the BSA does with Eagle ("Four Eagle Scouts playing in the ___________ Bowl.") I think the Cookie Syndicate funds their PR function pretty well.
    1 point
  50. There was a time when I was anti-BSA for my family, but I never wished for the collapse of the BSA. I was looking at another Scouting organization that fit what I wanted for my family. But I can't imagine ever having wished for the BSA to completely go away just because it didn't fit my morals and beliefs at the time. That logic just doesn't register with me, wanting something to go away just because you don't like it anymore. I wish you the best in TL and hope it fulfills what you are looking for. My family will continue with the BSA, and I will continue to support the BSA as an organiz
    1 point
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