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BSA is non-denominational. Following the old book is not required. I have no more business questioning the practices of Catholics or Hindu than I do trying to tell other people that they must accept my (or my faiths) interpretation of sin. Again, I am not going to judge others and while you state it is clear to you - it is only clear to those that follow that faith. With hundreds of Christian denominations, there are going to be more that are wrong than are right when it comes to what is actually "Biblical" and I am sure each one thinks they have the correct interpretation - and they can't all

Welcome to the forum @ladybugcub. What's your main goal here? Is it to improve the pack or to make sure your daughter has a great Scouting experience? If you want to fix the pack, then I think you've got a big project. First thing I'd focus on is building a culture of three things: - great den leaders - good recruiting - a few strong pack activities. If you do those, the rest is much more likely to happen. If your goal is your daughter's Scouting experience - I'd suggest that you'll make better progress focusing on building a great den. A great den really o

Yes. Yes I do. Because I believe that we are as God made us, sexual orientation and all. I don't believe that being gay is a choice.

We'll I'm glad that I mis-read that then. Had this funny thing happen a few years back. My in-laws are some of the most devout, religious people I've ever met. Go to church every Sunday, sing in the choir, serve on the church board, have the minister over for Christmas dinner. Mother in law is a part time employee of the church office. Father in law is literally a preacher's son who almost became a minister himself. They have a daughter - who they love and adore. My sister-in-law in fact. Turns out that she's gay. Now I suppose you could say that my in-laws are morally bankrupt an

Brian, I don't have specific solutions, others will no doubt offer great ideas that work. Even if the stain doesn't wash out completely, continue to wear that shirt anyway. As long as the uniform is "clean, dry and serviceable" it's alright. Scout uniforms should have a bit of "character."

I crossed over in '74, just as the "Improved" Scouting Program was rolling. Endured the red beret, the anemic scout handbook, and National's frantic attempt to hamstring the outdoor program. Later in that august decade, Green Bar Bill wrote the new handbook and the BSA got a reprieve from the astounding lameness of ISP. That said, I still received an old-school scouting experience during those years. My scoutmasters grit their teeth, shielded us from the more obnoxious elements of the ISP, and focused on traditional, outdoor-oriented scouting. If I could turn back the clock, I'd go b

And I make the assertion that the man who found the Boy Scouts and the Girls Scouts would have likely kept them as separate organizations if he were starting them today because he had the wisdom to understand the inherent differences between boys and girls and the ways they learn differently. Your speculation is just that.

Agreed. I personally believe that BSA's girl decision was formulated in desperation after the LDS church gave BSA internal notice of their planned departure. BSA brass had an "oh crap" moment when faced with the prospect of paying the bills with 425K fewer Scouts on the rolls. That explains the manipulative surveys to elicit coerced support for an unpopular decision, followed by a rushed announcement of a half-baked idea with few program details available (i.e. "we don't know yet what it will look like, but trust us - it will be awesome"). For the LDS leadership, BSA's decision

Perhaps we could get the moderators to open a religious argument only section of this forum.

First Aid is called that for a reason.

Umm guys? Can we take a deep breath here? What we have here is failure to understand that we have two different paradigms. LegacyLost is clearly going on the belief that the Bible is the Word of God, and as such it is to be studied and followed. Granting him his premise all his arguments are logical and coherent. How can one say " I love God but I refuse to do what He says" ? I can only assume that Firestone believes that Paul of Tarsus, who penned half of the new testament, is not to be taken seriously here and has somehow come to terms with that. Very well I

Personally, I'd make the decision based on what you think will make the best and most exciting, inspirational experience for your kids. If that's transforming your existing pack into a fresh, energetic, busy pack, then great. If it means joining another pack, that's fine too. A few notes Your kids are only young once and their time in scouts is short. Scouts is best with friends. Socializing and working together is a key part of scouting. It's not really scouting if your kid doesn't regularly interact with other scouts. You will spend a lot of energy fixi

You're the 2nd person this week to tell me that I hate something that I love. First I was told I hate the BSA. Now I'm told that I hate God. It's interesting that people on an Internet forum who know so little about me seem to think they know me so well. Last night I was working with my Scouts on a service project at a local park, I guess hating the BSA the whole time. Friday night I'll be at our Pack meeting, apparently hating the BSA then, too. Sunday morning I'll be at church, I suppose hating God and my faith. Geez, I sure do a lot of hating. 😄 So then should I say that I'm at w

I think this is an important point. Leadership and skills for life are not exclusive to Eagle Scouts. And there are plenty of former Scouts out there who would be more ardent supporters for a club they belonged to, (Scouts), over one they didn't (Eagles). The best Den Leader in my Pack "only" continued through Cub Scouts. Three years in, I JUST discovered that his Assistant is an Eagle Scout. (Don't get me wrong, the ADL is a great guy, but the DL clearly has better leadership/management talents.) If we really want to shine a light on the benefits of Scouting to the general public,

But that is only your belief based on your interpretation of your religious text for your god. Many many others have different religious beliefs based on their own. You believe you are right, else you would believe differently; but it is still a belief as is mine which differs greatly from yours. The BSA and the USA allow us both to keep our own beliefs.

This is another argument that has become very popular among the liberals. Anyone who disagrees with them are haters.

Could be worse....

I echo this: DO NOT DRY IN A DRYER. You may need to wash multiple times, trying different options. Another to try: pour liquid laundry detergent directly on the grease spot and rub in thoroughly. Let sit about five minutes. Wash in warm water (if it were not for the uniform patches, I'd say hot water). About five minutes into the wash cycle add liquid NON-CHLORINE COLOR-SAFE bleach. Hang dry and check whether grease spot is gone. If faded but not gone, repeat the process. If not faded try another type of detergent or stain remover.

Something similar is being done currently by some of the more traditional GSUSA leaders, since the current GSUSA program makes the outdoors completely optional. I will find it interesting to see how many of them decide to switch scouting organizations to a more traditional scouting program (BSA) and how many will stick with GSUSA and make the best of it, given their long ties to that organization. So despite the concerns some of you have that BSA is becoming too progressive by admitting girls, I expect that some of the most "progressive" families may continue to prefer GSUSA for th

In that case, the man you claim to know is nothing like the man I have come to know and love. I have read everything there is on Lord Baden-Powell, and if he was anything, it was a man of principle and integrity. You can throw his name around in an attempt to add weight to your argument if you like, but don't expect those of us who have read his literature and studied his ideas to agree with your assumptions about what he would or wouldn't do or believe if he were still alive today. If anything, I assume he is grateful not to be around today as the organization he was inspired to create buckle

25 years from now, kids will not even recognize the remnants of BSA from what we have known in the past. The real surprise will come in wondering why BSA chose to self-destruct by departing from its core mission and values that helped develop boys into men for more than a century.

Thank you for your support of teachers. I am actually quite satisfied with my Catholic school salary. Naturally, I could think of a few things that I would like to have if I made a little more money. But if that extra money comes at the cost of abandoning our values, lowering our standards, or serving fewer lower-income students, it would hardly be worth it.

We get a failing organization with drastically declining membership and morally bankrupt leadership. We should pay extra for this?

OK, I guess you are serious, so I will give you a serious answer. No jokes this time. Instead of driving the LDS out of scouting, why don't we ask them to share with us their institutional knowledge and experience (which has made it possible for them to run a large, global, and well funded religious institution without paying enormous salaries)?

I don't remember how explicit it was in the latest training, but the previous training was clear that matters of health and safety trump ypt guidelines when you have to choose between them. A much more direct scenario for this would be: I'm walking down the road at summer camp with two of my scouts, we're on the way from one activity area to another. Suddenly one of them becomes gravely ill and needs assistance, let's say CPR. Assuming cell phone communication is unavailable, I would send one scout to go for help and I would stay and render aid. Heck, let's make it maybe a little less

Two deep designates / means - At least two adults are required on every BSA outing. There is no geographical encumbrance on that point. Take the injury portion away, on an outing of 12 Scouts and 2 leaders, 6 want to go hike to the fire tower and 6 want to hike over to the lake and go fishing. That is fine. All are on the outing and there are two leaders On the evacuated scout you can easily take injured and two Scouts so you have no one on one contact when you rejoin the main group. Now yes, then you may ask what happens if with the group coming back there is another injury wh

I have been alone with Scouts for emergency reasons twice AND I WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN IF i CAN HELP IT! (Emphasis) First time was transporting a Scout to the hospital. Nothing happened, and he got the treatment and came back to camp with no additional problems. Second time was a week or two later and transporting another Scout to the hospital. While in the car, the Scout started going into shock and there was not a thing i could do but turn on the heater and talk to him to keep him conscious. THAT SCARED THE HECK OUT OF ME! He ended up being OK, but the shock did not help. Last

Hawkwin, I too have attended many a southern baptist meeting. As well as Methodist Catholic Episcopalian and a Pentecostal or two. Allow me to make a distinction here. I think there is a difference between failing to live up to biblical standards and the outright rejection of biblical standards. Yes we all fail none of us are perfect yet we are called to keep trying. To keep getting back up after falling. I think the difficulty lies and where some of us would say this is clearly a sin biblically speaking. But others say no it's not it's fine in fact it should be celebrated we don't care what

Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact. In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead. The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue. At least two adults are required on every BSA outing. During that outing, there should be no one-on-one contact between an adult and a youth. Parents and youth are advised to follow this and other Youth Protection policies for the overall safety of all involved. But there might be moments

Samoa? Camping on Samoa? Was Dr. Margaret Mead a Girl Scout? I'd go....

I think the BSA accepting girls is the best thing to happen to the GSUSA ironically. The past months are the first time I've ever seen them promote any of their programs outside of cookies.

it's not that. I've found the tone of the comments of late on the forum to be getting more and more negative towards the kids that are admitted through these changes. Comments like the one calling for the demise of the BSA. The one about how a Scoutmaster wouldn't let his scouts interact with the girls.

Who said they aren't? This "human being" argument has become very popular lately. Liberals have been using it on a wide variety of issues. I think it is one of the most idiotic arguments I have ever heard.

Very true. I also like their approach of the women being identified as "Girl Scouts" and not utilizing the false exclusivity of Gold Award only, like the BSA does with Eagle ("Four Eagle Scouts playing in the ___________ Bowl.") I think the Cookie Syndicate funds their PR function pretty well.

I would try Goof Off. I have not had grease on my uniform, but did use it to get rid of the staining left behind after finding that our local Scout Shop used a spray adhesive on uniforms before sewing on the Council Strip and World Crest.

Welcome. Sigh....many of us have been there. You can not be responsible for the whole world if other children's parents not step up. If you stay or go it should be based on what will be the best experience for your child, first IMHO. A few of us have produced Scout Widows do not produce Scout Orphans. It is tough because you care for the other little ones BUT the time you have at this stage with your kids is SO short. Mine did the full ride from Tiger to Eagle. A good unit makes a big difference.

Dawn Dish detergent, GoJo, Fast Orange. Just whatever you do, DO NOT DRY IN A DRYER!!!!!! (caps for emphasis, ok masybe screaming a warning at you ) Those are some of the things I've used, and you may need to wash it a bunch of times with the stuff. Just hang dry it, or it will be permament.

Gblotter and Jameson, I envy you the Nixonian impact. My card bears Jimmy Carter's signature. Doesn't make quite the same impression.

Love it. I show off my Nixon signature with a grin. The early 70s were such a weird period of history (including Scouting history).

It's cute that you pretend to know him so well, but unfortunately for your position I have read too much of his words to believe this. And you make it sound like all visionaries and leaders would have supported this, when of course there are many visionaries and leaders who oppose it. Being either one of them, and supporting girls in Scouting, are of course entirely unrelated. You can try again though if you like. Amen to that!

For the LDS voting members, I'm sure their attitude was "do whatever you think is best for the future of your movement because we're out of here anyway". For other voting members, I'm sure they faced the question "if we don't admit girls, then what is the alternate plan to address financial insolvency from the loss of 425K Scouts". They, of course, knew that the decision would be hugely controversial (but I'm not sure they appreciated how vitriolic the commentary would be from conservative sources). A unanimous vote was their way of launching girls into BSA with the best chance for s

I was a 13 year-old Eagle! Of course, that was all the way back in 1998, so it may not be viewed as relevant today, but I admit I mildly resent all the remarks about a 16 year old Eagle being "worth more" or "better prepared" than we who were a few years younger when we completed the requirements. And mind you, of all the boys who earned their Eagles in my Troop the same year as I, ALL of the rest were 16 or 17, yet I am the only one who went on to attend a good University, the only one with a clear career direction, and the only one still actively involved in Scouting. So be careful when you

@FireStone You capture the situation accurately. It is clear that this girl decision is a calculated gamble for financial survival of BSA the corporation, necessitated by bloated salaries, foolish over-spending, and a $700M debt load for construction of The Summit. Reprogramming BSA for girls is a move of desperation now compounded by the departure of 425K LDS Scouts. The pessimistic side of me wonders if the LDS leaders (who are wise financial stewards) didn't want to stick around to be responsible for cleaning up the financial mess of BSA. Progressives may cheer these "inclusive" c

Nothing more than what you probably already know: no tenting with an adult unless it is your own parent, two deep, no one-on-one, etc. YPT strongly backs the philosophy of reporting any credible accusation without investigating it yourself. For Irving, this makes a lot of sense: if it's true, they want a professional to deal with it; if it's false, it's no skin off their back what happens to the accused. Either way, BSA can extricate itself from a lawsuit as they followed proper procedure.

I have been copying parents on emails since before it became a rule in the BSA. I was a "mentor" for my son's high school robotics team (in non-technical areas) and I found myself writing an email to the captain of one of the sub-teams that I was assisting, and it occurred to me, Hey, you are writing to a 16- or 17-year-old girl, and flashing lights, bells and sirens started going off in my head. So I decided to cc one of her parents, and luckily I had the parents' email from some team-wide email. Then I decided, why not do that for every student, and later, every Boy Scout (such as in meri

If they are mentioning those two groups, then there is a third group who should be mentioned as well. Themselves. They are seeing the Eagle Scout award as a resume item, to gain them access to academic or military advantages, and they have already devalued the award far more than either of the other groups ever could.

Progressives don't "hate what the BSA stood for." I'm what you might call a "progressive", and I love the BSA, always have, always will. I also don't agree that "we've sacrificed the quality of Eagle, which used to be the standard for Excellence." I think it still is a standard of excellence. And last I checked, duty to god was still part of the program at all levels, so your idea that "we've given up on God", I'm in strong disagreement with that as well. Not much else to say, I just find those comments of yours extremely disagreeable.

1- Stop driving their existing membership away with ridiculous changes to their core principles in order to be 'liked' by a fickle politically correct group of progressives who HATE what the BSA stood for. 2- Do what they say that they are going to do, and stop changing their 'written in stone' positions every six months. 3- Reduce the redundant CYA paperwork and useless training that drives away seasoned volunteers. 4- Push a program that goes back into the woods. BSA needs to compete against digital and social attractions, not try to emulate them. The outdoors and nature wer

The main thrust of BP's "practical religion" was not that by being religious one is a Scout, but instead when one is a Scout through their actions they are practicing their religion. I think the DRP and many who tout the need for a specific religion or god miss this nuance. I do not expect all to agree with me though and that is ok as I am a progressive and I do not expect everyone to believe as I do.