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Problem is that national won't improve the situation, they want the increase in Eagles. If national wanted to improve the value, they would point blank say no more MBUs, making summer camp ins summer school, etc. They would allow SMs who know the Scouts didn't earn MBs to not give it to them. And when an EBOR appeal reaches national, AND THEY ACKNOWLEDGE MISTAKES WERE MADE (emphasis) they would make the Eagle redo some of the work BECAUSE HE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS ADVANCEMENT (emphasis again) and not just give it to him because "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adul

Definitely not. If BSA wants to accommodate families who are very conservative about girls' clothing, that can be easily solved. Just make the pants material available by the yard, and those girls could make their own skirts, of suitably long length. Skirts are not hard to make, and families who don't approve of modern styling almost certainly have sewing skills. Those skorts are just so wrong. As a field uniform, light-weight nylon zip-offs seem much more practical. Easy to cover the legs when needed when dealing with ticks, mosquitoes, and poison ivy. And even though

As ya'll have said, the push for numbers by National is the problem. Looks good to the general public, even if others know the foundation is weak. It's the "expansion team" theory in action. More players, more teams, more dollars! But the talent pool is diluted, quality of play on the field/rink/court is diluted, fans get bored, and the league suffers in the long run.

The feedback I am getting from our Eagle candidates is the Eagle project is enough...only do not mention your service work on a college application as an Eagle project just let the college assume it was part of service requirement for graduation! We need to get the value of Eagle back and it is not PR stating only 4%,5%,...,%8 earn Eagle, which says what exactly? Make Eagle of unquestioned value again post high school. For example, not E-2 maybe E-3 grade , definite E-3 grade across the service branches. This would mean more physically fit and more real (solo) leadership. Colleges want

UGH! Those options are terrible! How are incoming ladies expected to correctly place their insignia when there are no standard pockets by which to judge placement? Are they going to re-write the guide to uniforms and insignia entirely? And on WHAT body are those hideous shirts supposed to be flattering? The BSA has a serious problem with sizing already, as all of you have already noted. I had to get my shirt custom tailored because my long wiry arms looked preposterous in the huge flapping sleeves of a YOUTH LARGE, which, mind you, was the only shirt with a torso size which fit decently on

25 years from now, kids may be surprised that children were allowed to venture out into the woods.

This sums up many of my own feelings, and I want to clarify a few things. First, we aren't here to please others, @gblotter - we're here to do what we think is right. As Gandalf observed, "all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." Next, I am not one to beat a dead horse, and I feel this topic is starting to circle in that direction. SO! A few brief thoughts of my own: 1. Many of you have expressed kind words on my behalf at this coming change. However, you aren't done with me yet! We have a solid year 1/2 to go in Scouting, and I intend to give my 100% right

Will preface this by saying I think the current styling of BSA uniforms is about the schlumpiest mess you'll see on a collection of youth and adults. I don't think there is anything more depressing than seeing a bunch of adults willing to devote their time and efforts in service and then making them don what poses as uniforms. It's the saddest sack of ---- collection of OD wrapped lumps when they get together. I think it actively sucks out a measure of enthusiasm from anyone wearing them. I refuse to buy official pants and shorts because they fit so bad and if you happen to find a pair that

Parents are a big part of the problem today. My father is a District advancement chair and also approved Eagle projects and sets up EBORs. The number of times he receives emails/calls from parents vs scouts is ridiculous. One example... a mom called to get an update on an approval for her sons Eagle project. My father asked to speak to her son directly (who was with her) and she refused as he isn’t comfortable talking with adults. Eventually she relented and the Scout did fine. Parents should let their scouts breath and even fail to achieve Eagle. That could be a great life lesson. Pad

IMO, if there is "no gender" in Scouting, USA then the uniform - shirts and pants style should be the same for all.

My problem with this line of thought is that it presumes that girls think like boys, learn like boys, and respond to the same things boys do - and the simple fact is that they do not, because they are not the same. Sure, the benefits of Scouting are just as desireable for the one as they are for the other, but the paths by which they get there won't necessarily work as well for girls as they do for boys. Some may think differently, which is their right, but I know girls and boys are inherently different - thank Heaven for that. And frankly, I have never trusted public "trends." Too often,

In a world where women's needs were so narrowly defined that they were considered BY THEIR NATURE not responsible enough to vote, incapable of becoming doctors, lawyers, etc., and so subservient to their husbands that if they married a non citizen, say a recent Irish immigrant, they instantly lost their US citizenship, it's hardly surprising that he or almost anyone else in those days would have thought that the needs of boys and girls would not be drastically different. It's true that we can't know what BP would have thought if he was around today, but it seems foolish to look to a world

LegacyLost, I am a Christian believer, but I am not prepared to say that the BSA going coed is akin to violating the law of God. Scouting has always been a tool to help boys grow into men. As such, its purpose is noble and good, and I can use it to help my sons grow into men as well. But the allowing of girls into the BSA does not concern me because it violates scripture. Rather it is unwise, as it brings both girls and boys together at a time when their sense of their distinctiveness is being learned by both sides. Boys need to be around men to learn how to be a man. And I assume that

What I describe is the same boy-only summer camp experience that every BSA troop will have this summer. How heretical is that? In theory, BSA still recognizes the value of single-gender Scouting - thus boy-only troops and girl-only troops. But such value does not extend to summer camps? It is your smear that says I am not "a friend to all" simply because I disagree with a co-ed vision of summer camp.

@LegacyLost I understand the bitter tone you express, and I'm sorry for it. There are many of us in the same boat who feel disillusioned by these recent changes. We are an LDS Scouting family (three generations of Eagles), and we'll soon exit BSA too. However, we depart not with bitterness but with sadness over what has been lost. I'm glad my son could experience the adventures of traditional Scouting at its best. He is an Eagle Scout with 50+ merit badges and OA. Six summer camps plus National Jamboree. He's had a wonderful ride, and I'm especially grateful I could experience it with hi

Yeah ... Three responses ... #1 The term rose colored glasses exists for a reason. The past is rarely as good as we remember it. #2 The issue is not a BSA thing and much more larger trends. Helicopter parents. Grade inflation. Building the resume. Legalism. Plus, schools and youth programs are much better now at teaching the basics that scouts cover and now makes scouts look fairly light weight. Better schools. Better exercise. Chasing achievements. #3 When I look at my oldest, I see a man who was very much burnt out on scouting when he was 18. Extremely burnt

For what it's worth as a son of a family with a more or less casual scouting legacy (brother made eagle, other brother and myself made star for various reasons, father a scout) and as non LDS individuals we are also done with the BSA permanently. So our sons will never be Boy Scouts because as we see it the Boy Scouts don't exist anymore. Whatever the BSA is, it not only holds little interest but it's actually morally reprehensible and repulsive to us at this point. My father considers the Boy Scouts to be dead. And no matter how much BSA corporate schemes, they lost us permanently w

It's been four years since I retired from the military. Reflecting on my last several years on active duty, I can safely say it was a crap shoot when sizing up new enlistees that claimed to be Eagle. Frankly, some were pretty sorry specimens. Too many by my reckoning. Lacking in self-motivation, physical fitness, professionalism, learning ability, resilience, ability to get along with others, etc. Yet they usually possessed a false sense of achievement and entitlement. These guys were dragged across the finish line by somebody. Others were clever and knew it. Barely concealed

I talked to a lot of highly skilled individuals while on vacation. Very few would volunteer as direct-contact leaders for even a week, let alone a month. While helping us tie off, a dock hand's watch dropped between the pier and our boat. Already in my trunks, I shucked my shirt, had my kids toss me my mask, and jumped in. The sun was only coming through a narrow gap. The sailors in an ajacent slip boat scampered to find me a dive light, but knowing that the current could bury the thing before I found it, I started my search. A couple of surface dives between shadows, avoiding disturbing

If they are mentioning those two groups, then there is a third group who should be mentioned as well. Themselves. They are seeing the Eagle Scout award as a resume item, to gain them access to academic or military advantages, and they have already devalued the award far more than either of the other groups ever could.

Wonder what 'Expert Fitter' means. That wasn't a option for a degree in fashion, patternmaking OR merchandising when I was in school. Maybe it is now, and I'm just too damned old, lol. Not sure how I feel about the whole untucked thing. I have to admit, tucking in the shirt and wearing a belt is a pain, but at the same time, untucked just seems wrong - too undisciplined, maybe, as much as I'd rather not do it.

I have a background in fashion design and patternmaking. Can I tell you.... there is nothing more aggravating than BSA uniforms - particularly the fit of the pants. Is this my opportunity to rant a little? First, though, I hate that new shirt. It's odd-looking and a side opening on a pocket is not a great idea. I don't like the placket over the buttons. It may look 'cleaner', but it makes fastening and unfastening the buttons harder. The pocket on the pants looks too high, and I'd miss having the depth that the current cargo pockets have. Unlike with other pants, I actually carry

I use both Invitation manager and online applications. For invitation manager I only use the email addresses I collect at various events. I fill in dummy info for phone and address. Once I receive an application or decline from the lead I close them out. It is a great way to easily track leads and get them to your online app. Online app works well 90% of the time. It eliminates typos between the paper app and what council enters in. Also, it takes care of the BSA and Boys Life fee which is nice. Finally, it is also useful as I can always go back online to get info about the s

And I make the assertion that the man who found the Boy Scouts and the Girls Scouts would have likely kept them as separate organizations if he were starting them today because he had the wisdom to understand the inherent differences between boys and girls and the ways they learn differently. Your speculation is just that.

Twisting the conversation disingenuously. GSUSA would remind you that girls are far from excluded from Scouting in the United States.

Be that as it may, I will ensure that the boys in my Webelos den get every ounce of benefit I can squeeze out of Scouting until the minute we switch to the new program - including preparing them to cross over into the Boy Scout program. Even if they don't ever go into Boy Scouts after this, I feel it would be cheating them out of essential and valuable lessons if I watered down my program just because we won't be continuing with Scouting in the future. So in my den, Scouting will live on at least for another year and a half - and for boys this age, that can still be a mightly long time to make

This was one video that was brought up frequently. That said I’m not sure this decision was based on altruism. I’ll definitely take advantage of the decision for my daughter.

I have been copying parents on emails since before it became a rule in the BSA. I was a "mentor" for my son's high school robotics team (in non-technical areas) and I found myself writing an email to the captain of one of the sub-teams that I was assisting, and it occurred to me, Hey, you are writing to a 16- or 17-year-old girl, and flashing lights, bells and sirens started going off in my head. So I decided to cc one of her parents, and luckily I had the parents' email from some team-wide email. Then I decided, why not do that for every student, and later, every Boy Scout (such as in meri

I don't agree that they've departed from their core mission, but if we are talking about accepting girls into the Boy Scout program, I think we all know precisely why they've decided to do that. The BSA is a business, and an expensive one to run. Lots of big paychecks need to be cut to top-level execs. The BSA could function perfectly well with 1/10th of current membership, if it wasn't for the costly overhead of the organization. Scouts UK has far fewer members. Other scouting organizations have even smaller numbers. There are scout organizations that have no paid leadership, 100% volunt

I always find the UK/US comparisons a bit dicey. I know you're looking at per capita, but, I think that creates a serious averaging error. The UK is about the size (physically and population wise) as the BSA's NE Region. Creating a program for a smaller mostly homogeneous population (whether Old England or New England) is a very different problem than creating a single program for a nation that is more diverse on many facets. I think if we really wanted to compare US scouting to Europe, then the better comparison would be US:EU. That's a bit harder to do no doubt since there is at least o

Well, looks like I won't have to worry about the new neckers after all! Which is fine by me since I love the classic blue and gold, and will be happy to simply pass on the old yellow ones, even if the red does make a little more sense what with the matching color schemes and all.

I think J. R. R. Tolkien expressed my feelings best in regards to the coming changes, and my place during and after them: “It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.” I find these words touchingly a propos for me now.

25 years from now, kids will not even recognize the remnants of BSA from what we have known in the past. The real surprise will come in wondering why BSA chose to self-destruct by departing from its core mission and values that helped develop boys into men for more than a century.

If memory serves, when BP found out that girls wanted to do scouting, he set up a separate organization, the Girl Guides, and had his wife run it separately from the Boy Scouts. This all girls organization is still in business, and by some accounts, is prospering more than the current Scout Association in Britain. How could BP to be so unfriendly, to forsake being a brother to every other scout. He must have been a heartless, bigoted individual who hated females and treated them like crap. I wonder what would happen if the BSA followed BP's example, and set up something like the Girl

In your own words on 3/9/2018 in topic Family Scouting Update "I wouldn't want our boys sharing merit badge classes, evening campfires, flag ceremonies, or dining hall times with girl troops. I seek to continue the same summer camp experience our boys have enjoyed before these announcements. " As I was taught and teach, A SCOUT IS A FRIEND TO ALL, AND A BROTHER TO EVERY OTHER SCOUT, NO MATTER TO WHAT SOCIAL CLASS THE OTHER BELONGS - Baden Powell. RS

I realize this is somewhat of a tangent, but I just asked the Internet what "pantheism" is, and I don't think there would be any justification in denying Eagle to someone on the basis that he or she is a "pantheist." The BSA requires a belief in a higher power and that you do your duty to that higher power. Pantheism has a higher power, even though it doesn't "look like" the deity of most of the major religions.

For now and judging by finances maybe not for very long. They follow the current zeitgeist, but what they fail to realize, apparently, is that they really have undermined the scout oath to honor God and be morally straight but it's not that they should fear the wrath of God as a resut of that, no. It's that what they have done *is* the wrath of God manifested by the organization being "given over" to that which is unnatural and "inconvenient" and the subsequent consequences thereof. But then this is the entire culture and bigger than the BSA, clearly. In any event, some of us come

Sorry if I missed this, but just to clarify: are these meant to be female uniforms, or is this a unisex design? I need to know if I have to stock up for my Scout if they are the new overall design....

Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. I didn't do WB. I win.

I did not like this game during my WB course. I really questioned wither I would come back the second weekend. I know a few did not and it influenced them. I understand the point of getting through the storming phase, but it wasn't debriefed well to us. It was one of the factors that ruined my experience with WB. I just got my ticket done and left it in the past. I flatly refuse to do this game ever again regardless of it being in scouts or the real world. I believe this section of the course needs to be readdressed and possibly altered.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

“There is no religious side to the Movement. The whole of it is based on religion, that is, on the realization and service of God.” Lord Robert Baden-Powell, November 1920

Happy Mothers' Day! P.S. I hid the previous post for 24+ hours as it was in the scouter.com content feed on Mothers' Day. IMO, it seemed discourteous to women in Scouting and Scouting in general.

Vertical zip shirt front pockets...are females really going to carry a topo map and a couple cliff bars in those particular pockets? The entire effort seems over-engineered and stylistically odd. Definitely look forward to hearing what women have to say about it. I'll ask my Venturing daughter what she thinks. My initial hunch: girls are going to just buy a boy's shirt, a size or two larger, and go with that.

Listen to your parents. It's fine for those of us who have decent paying day jobs to volunteer some of our free time for smiles. It is an entirely different thing for a young person to forgo good employment opportunities or neglect his education. If I remember correctly, you need that money for college.

A 16-year-old Eagle is worth a dozen 12- or 13- year old Eagles in my book. Interestingly, I have found almost the opposite to be true. In my troop, it has been my observation that the younger Eagles (15 and under) take the program more seriously, and participate in Scouting longer and more earnestly. The older Eagles (16 and older), while still very worthy and likable, tend not to be as dedicated. Of course, my older son was the exception (he got his at 16). Many of these boys stopped participating in Scouting (sometimes for more than a year) and then came back to get their Eagle a

I'm not talking about going co-ed as violating the law of God. I'm talking about the open and codified approval of homosexual scouts, scout leaders, and transgendered scouts. The LDS decision appears to have been made long before the co-ed option appeared regardless of what was publicly said. For my family, the scouts died in 2013. The decision this last week was just the final nail in the coffin.