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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/10/18 in all areas

  1. Gentlemen, There is not much left in Irving of Scouting's core values. We've sacrificed the quality of Eagle, which used to be the standard for Excellence. We've given up on God, who sacrificed his son for us. We've told the boys that they shouldn't strive to be good strong men of high moral caliber; they should be co-operative facilitators who will avoid embarrassing others by being better. (Game of Life - Would badger?) We can't cut green trees to build towers and bridges. Leave no trace so that 4,000 others scouts can tread this sidewalk and imagine that they're fi
    6 points
  2. I am not at all squeamish about BSA having separate units for boys and girls. I just don't believe it is going to happen. Once these linked units are firmly established, BSA will announce that they no longer see any reason for separate units, and they will all be officially merged into co-ed units. BSA is taking an incremental approach to changing over to co-ed scouting. It has no intention to keep the girl units permanently segregated.
    5 points
  3. There are a great many of adults in our district that think Woodbadge is BSA4Adults. Barry
    4 points
  4. One of the frustrating issues I have had over the past five years or so of participation in this forum is that so often we want to immediately focus on the negatives that may or may not exist. Is that necessarily the best way to respond? If a play does not work in organized sports, do you simply say it is hopeless, or do you find a variant or completely new option? Most barriers are surmountable, though many may be better if gone around. The point is to score. In our case, the ultimate goal is to offer the best elements of Scouting to the greatest amount of youth that we can. There is a
    3 points
  5. Survey...you forgot to mention a survey...there's always a survey
    3 points
  6. A lot of people are misinterpreting this requirement. The new requirement is not 72 total hours in a year's time, the 72 hour rule is that if a single event covers 72 hours, adults must be registered. In many cases, this means either summer camp with the troop, or Cub resident camp (in our Council Cub resident camp is 4 days).
    3 points
  7. The fundamental requirement to being a Christian is faith in Christ as the savior. Not "going to church", not following golden rules... those things flow from a faith in Christ, and faith without works is dead as James said, but they are not what makes a Christian a Christian. There may be a reason they can't make it to church, but they remember the sabbath day and keep it holy far better than the pious that attend church every Sunday. A scout is trustworthy and taken at their word. It's hard to call someone fake, Christian or otherwise, without knowing the fullness of their life. A s
    3 points
  8. I don't make it a habit of quoting myself. But, I hit send on this earlier than I meant to and wanted to expand a bit. My point on retention is really just that as I look around my district, I see a drop off as boys get older. Folks use terms like FUMES to describe it as if it's just an accepted thing. However, there are other activities (such as sports) that I don't believe suffer the same problem. My working theory for a while has been that at the boy scout level, the retention problem has stemmed from: 1) There are a lot of bad troops out there. Sorry guys, but I look aro
    3 points
  9. The soul of the program is the vision. Volunteers shape toward the program, not the other way around. Anyone remember the forum member Bobwhite? He preached that if the unit wasn't performing, then they weren't following the published BSA guidelines. Top companies are successful because they hire like-minded in employees who believe in the product and vision. I was reading the different discussions on this forum the other day thinking how little we discussion operations anymore. Techniques for building the program toward developing character using the tools given by the BSA used to domina
    3 points
  10. I became Scoutmaster to help boys turn into great men, I did so because I saw how unfair school was to boys and how girls seemed to be in leadership roles vs boys. I can't seem to see why Scouts BSA is an opportunity for boys.
    2 points
  11. My thought is not so much the discrimination standpoint, as honestly the majority of CO's primary provision of material support is in the way of meeting space, access to the grounds, etc. Not too many of them (though some do) write a check each year. If they do that is easily balanced. Your point on equipment is more easily handled / explained as troops with longer tenure will have more stuff accumulated The point of contention will likely be (as you note) the opportunity available in Old School Boy Scout troop with it's 13 outings per year, 50 Boy Scouts, institutional knowledge, 30+
    2 points
  12. Could be. But I think many unit commissioners are generalists. Do they all really know how to solve the unit retention problem? Agreed. My basic premise here is if you want to solve a problem, you focus on solving the problem. The approach in the BSA to solving a problem usually seems to be a revamp of a training, an article in Scouting magazine, JTE, or some new rule. I think we need to be more proactive than that.
    2 points
  13. Now that the LDS have announced their intention to leave, the move to co-ed could happen as early as the NAM in a couple of weeks. "We've heard from the field and parents that our linked troops idea is unworkable and that they'd prefer to be co-ed. Therefore, blah, blah, blah."
    2 points
  14. I agree that it's on the local units to retain their older scouts. You describe nicely some of the considerations. I'd like to see national do some thing I've never seen before in Scouting - really focus on fixing this. For example - I'd like to see training on 14-17 program development and on retention. I'd like to see true experts emerge who work with the troops on annual calendar and meeting structure. And so on.
    2 points
  15. They have forgotten the faces of their fathers
    2 points
  16. I've never felt compelled to write on a forum until today. In my view, it is abundantly clear that the BSA knew this was coming and thus opened membership to girls in an attempt to shore up numbers and balance out the anticipated losses from LDS departure. What I find incredibly frustrating is that the BSA, as an organization, has taken the position of looking out for the BSA's best interest (member numbers, $$$) versus looking out for the people it is meant to serve (boys and young men). This shift in priorities is the hallmark indicator of a failing organization and is a an example that h
    2 points
  17. 2 points
  18. If my Scout Shop has red, I'm going with that. I heard yellow would be used up until stock was gone. Which in the BSA means we'll be using yellow for about 18 more years. 😁
    1 point
  19. I don't believe this is a shared goal so the premise fails. For many, the ultimate goal is to help as many boys as possible make the transition to manhood. I disagree. The point is to play the game to the best of your ability inside the rules. When the rules are rewritten to the point the game is fundamentally changed, people have to make a decision on whether to continue.
    1 point
  20. Certainly is regional. In our district we are doing better than last year. The luncheon I attended, they got around $60k from the room.
    1 point
  21. I would agree if this was in fact a sports thing, in that as you correctly noted - If a play does not work in organized sports, do you simply say it is hopeless, or do you find a variant or completely new option? You of course try different options, as the rules and playing field are not changing as you are playing. Yes there are always slight updates and technology changes, but I played golf with my dad, and I play with my son. Rules are basically the same, goals are the same. Looking at the Boy Scouts, the aims and mission (though to be clear the "mission" statement is not original ca
    1 point
  22. Speak eloquently, respectfully, bravely and passionately about your stance. Lay out the benefits and offer your expertise to guide the girl units (whether in your CO or another) so they can get up and running as a strong pack. Putting a personal stake in it will be beneficial and others will be assuaged knowing there's someone willing to field questions. Those who want to keep things separate need to step up and help craft strong girl units. Saying "we're staying all boy" and then shutting the door is going to create a problem when there doesn't necessarily need to be one. (vigilante acti
    1 point
  23. It's all in how you phrase your number There is a Troop 5-0 in Hawaii (book em Danno)
    1 point
  24. I received a forwarded email this morning from our Assistant Scout Executive. Our local council does a fund drive every year. They ask for donations of $250.00 and up from wealthy donors to attend a luncheon with a guest speaker. The email I received was from a fellow scouter who donated $800.00 last year and declined to donate this year due to the recent decisions by national. The email also stated the fund drive was well below the $750,000.00 annual donations from years past at this same time. I was also informed that the LDS scouts reserve our entire camp exclusively for themselves for
    1 point
  25. 1 point
  26. Barry, we agree more than we disagree. In general I think where we do diverge, it is in minor details for the most part. Even with topics where it may appear we have fundamental differences, I think if we dove deep into the actual details, we would have much agreement. Please take my above statement, and all previous ones in the best possible scouting spirit.
    1 point
  27. Something I teach my scout son - especially as it pertains to the internet (and something for which I personally struggle - which is why I know the term): MRI: most respectful interpretation. https://www.fs.blog/2017/01/most-respectful-interpretation/
    1 point
  28. It is a good question and topic The base of the desire for single gender units is that Boys and Girls learn, mature, and interact socially differently. There is great value to give Boys and Girls an opportunity to work together in single gender groups. At this time there are coed leadership and association opportunities within Schools, churches, summer swim teams, academic teams, community organizations, private camps, etc. The Boy Scouts of America can provide one of the few areas where youth can work in a single gender environment that is not sports focused. Also - the Girls Sc
    1 point
  29. I agree. I spoke of this very point at Woodbadge and other leadership courses. But there is a lot of independent thinking required of adult leaders in this program. It's not easy for leaders on either end of the spectrum to guide their scouts of their spiritual duties. My concern isn't so much how to insure spiritual application at the scout level. My concern is taking out the spiritual intent at the Vision and Mission level of the program. From the BSA, "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instillin
    1 point
  30. A secret giant white board and visio flow chart in a small dark office in Irving, TX
    1 point
  31. The “tap out” is optional. It is not an official ceremony of the OA like Ordeal or Brotherhood. Many Lodges do different things depending on size. Some Lodges do a Lodge wide call out, others do it by chapter and yet others have no ceremony at all. If they were elected, they are eligible to complete their Ordeal. I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a Lodge Adviser.
    1 point
  32. Here is the concern I am hearing. I would ask our forum lawyers for input if this is really a risk. Under 1 CO: Troop 111 boys has the best equipment, multiple trips a year, etc. Troop 111 girls has crappy equipment, rarely takes trips, etc. Let’s say the CO provides or is perceived to provide more help to the Boys Troop than the Girls Troop. Then a girl could sue stating discrimination due to gender. she would point out the equipment differences, the trip difference, the “favoritism”. I don’t see this as common as any CO adding a linked girls Troop should have plans to ensure
    1 point
  33. @wisihalacon welcome to scouter.com
    1 point
  34. And as an update..... I've done a draft of a souvenier/promo film for those that were on the course. It's a draft version so it's unlisted on youtube, so you'll need this link for a look. The snow hole in/out scene is for real by the way. While there was some cutting for getting it down to length there was no funny stuff with putting people in and out between takes, they did get that many in there
    1 point
  35. Our faith in another deity, no all of us are Christian
    1 point
  36. Any chance this will be live streamed?
    1 point
  37. It is against the rules. Besides that, I will refer you to the movie Stand By Me.
    1 point
  38. Yes, but my experience is that when parents are more personally invested as members, they are more proactive with giving suggestions. Not that big a deal in cubs, but stressful at many levels in the patrol method program. Unless the unit has adult leaders with a strong and confident understanding of the Aims of scouting, and how the Methods structure reaches those goals, the troop typically tends toward parent run. Barry
    1 point
  39. In talking with the Boy Scouts in our troop, they are meh about girls joining BSA.....hey separate troops, we don't typically camp with other units, do council events, and are not really camporee people...so except for summer camp, minimal impact. They did / have asked what's the deal with Family Scouting / Camping? Does this mean Mom and Dad will come on outings? Isn't one the fun parts of scouting NOT having the parents and siblings along? As leaders our input is we do not plan any changes and will continue to execute a fun and challenging program. The Family Scouting is the s
    1 point
  40. Salt Lake paper article a couple years back said LDS Scouts in Utah was 95%. The membership map will look like a neutron bomb went off there. In 2015 another article claimed it would be a $10 million annual hit to BSA.
    1 point
  41. The problem is that this requirement is a slippery slope. Atheism is probably the only thing that distinctly differs from the law. Unless BSA were to say you must be religion A and fulfill requirements 1,2, and 3 what does this requirement really mean? We all know many Christians that either never go to church, or go twice a year, or even worse go often and the minute they leave church they don't follow the golden rules. So in my mind, someone that is honest and declares being Atheist carries more weight than Christian (or others) that are completely fake.
    1 point
  42. I expect the first complaint that makes it to the Tampa Bay Times and all parties will fold and we will go Co-Ed rules be darned. Linked Troops is clearly a short interim strategy--National will change it to a Co-Ed option very, very soon. They just have to figure out how to spin it.
    1 point
  43. The only thing left is taking god completely out of the program. That will make the transition to total progressivism complete. I know it's just me and my nature, but I have to laugh when these changes are called progressive. I know progressives, "still laughing", like to use the Scouts program in England as and example of a scouting program recovering after making sharp left turns, but I keep watching the Canadian Scouts which doesn't show such hope. Doesn't really matter, the program lost its soul. Barry
    1 point
  44. LDS units form a HUGE percentage of Scouting units in the Western region especially. States like Idaho, Arizona and Wyoming, and large portions of California and Oregon have exceptionally large numbers of LDS units. I am sorry to hear you have had those kind of experiences, but in all my time Scouting as both a youth and an adult, and having observed the MASSIVE size and rich dynamics of Scouting in thickly LDS areas like Utah and Idaho, I can say confidently that, in the majority of cases both historically and regionally, LDS units are powerhouses both in membership and advancement.
    1 point
  45. A day pass gets you into the Summit Center, which is the central hub of activity at The Summit. You cannot leave the Summit Center area and go to the base camp sites, even if you have a guide. But the Summit Center itself is big, over 350 acres. You will have access to: Summit Center Stadium (at the NSJ, the Saturday pass entitled you to stay around for the stadium show; otherwise you have to leave by 5:00 most days) Brownsea Island Sustainability Treehouse Scott Visitors Center Legacy Village Trading Posts Military exhibits Conservation Tr
    1 point
  46. True, but young males who matured through puberty also instinctively resist change. I agree the attraction to the opposite sex is very powerful, but the attraction can be entertained almost anytime and anywhere outside of scouting. Especially in this culture. The scouting experience for each scout is personal, even a bit sacred. I would be surprised to see the older scouts so willing to give it up. I used to coached units (and still do on this forum) that when the adults go through a leadership change, dramatic program changes come from the young scouts who have not yet bonded with personal e
    1 point
  47. The author admits near the beginning of the article that accepting girls is a business decision. Basically greed. But later she says it's advancing patriarchy? The article says more about the NYTimes than the changes of the BSA. But I snicker because the tone of her article asumes the folks driving this change at National are somewhat clever or smart. Barry
    1 point
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