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Let's all please call people by their correct names, and not make up nicknames. The CSE's name is Michael Surbaugh, or if one prefers, just Surbaugh, or if you want to just use his title, he's the CSE.

I think this whole thread illustrates why National is interested in membership numbers. The number of scouts is going down and the overhead is not. The result is economic stress and thus everything mentioned in this thread. The long term solution is getting more kids having fun camping with their friends. This is one of those "It's the economy, stupid" messages that should be part of National's letter head. "It's kids having fun, stupid." I don't think the solution is going to come from focusing on what is preventing kids from having fun. It's going to come from focusing on ensuring

Of course, it was staged. It is a national TV program. Take the positive vibe and work with it, rather than look for reasons to lessen its possible impact and forward moving hope. Each unit, as they accept the challenge, will have a lot to work through. We do not need a constant drum-roll of negative "chicken littles".

Not terribly related to the topic, but I was given this by one of the parents in the Troop.

If everybody, boys, girls, men and women, were going to wear kilts, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Presumably the kilt of my "clan" would have a Star of David pattern.

There are early adopters, then there are EARLY adopters. There was probably some coordination between BSA National or the local council and the tv show. It isn't like the tv show producers could easily call around to find a pack that is an early adopter. The council or Nationals obviously would want to put their best face forward so it isn't overly surprising that some uniform coordination was likely involved. And let's be honest, if this was completely staged and choreographed, there is NO WAY they would have used that first boy to comment on what he thinks about girls in scouts. Ev

This is the standard opinion of most scout leaders in the BSA program, and I cringe every time I hear it. When I was the district membership adviser and SM trainer, I taught troop and crew leaders that program is the attraction, or detraction, for older scouts. And, the older scout program is the performance indicator of the "whole" troop program. If the average age of your older scouts is 14-15, your program isn't very good for the younger scouts either. And directing the program toward advancement is a sure killer of a successful adventure program. My experience is troops that focu

Will you poach our crew's women? Do they have ear tags? Have you claimed them? Seems really cavemanny

BSA and Councils have rules about Unit Fundraising. We were always forbidden from soliciting corporate donations, because that is the job of the Professionals and is the Council tier of Friends of Scouting. Whatever your fundraising idea is, you are required to complete and submit the Unit Fundraising Application and have your proposal approved by the Scout Executive. Council would prefer you stick to the official popcorn campaign, since they get a cut.

You seems to dismiss from the calculation all the work of all the Scouters and Cubbers in their units, without which there would be no paperwork to push. Unless you drink the "hour a week" Kool Aid, that effort exceeds all paid hours, even if including hours devoted to raising funds for council, by orders of magnitude. Our new SE says only units Scouting counts. One hopes. Ending the scandal of Council merit badge mills and rationalizing paperwork requirements would reduce the "Eagle paperwork" load that you mention. Camp? In our council, and many others (each of our bordering co

Let’s talk about some of the metoo “victims” #1st tweet was on Harvey Weinstein by Ashley Judd (Oct 5) Roy Price was taken out Oct 11... Larry Nassar Oct 18... Kevin Spacy Oct 29... Roy Moore Nov 9.... Louis C.K. Nov 10... Matt Lauer Nov 29... Garrison Keillor Nov 30... at first I thought perhaps this one was a reach, until MPR came out with a bit more info... Russell Simmons Nov 30... Al Franken Dec 7 Mario Batali Dec 11 Gary Goddard Dec 20.. Read about these. Which men should be put back in their position? What I see is man

I routinely hear that the drop in membership in 70's was caused by the program change. I can't say for sure, because I was not involved at that time, certainly not as an adult leader. So I went in search of some numbers. I found some here http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/443_boy_scouts_and_girl_scouts_membership.html I decided to chart the numbers for BSA and GSUSA. The dates are a bit strange in the spacing 10 years, 5, 5 then one year increments after that. The gaps in the data can hide a few things like actuall peaks and valleys, but the general trend line remains fairly accurate.

I think I have said this before, but I wish that the BSA, as its first decision after letting girls into Cub Scouts, had NOT issued a new article of clothing for the girl-Cubs that emphasizes differences between the genders. Why couldn’t they just let the girls wear the regular blue shorts and long pants? And if necessary, offer a girls’ version, the same thing the boys are wearing, just a different “cut.” I really hope that when the Girl Boy Scouts starts, they just let them wear the uniform pants or shorts and not have a green “skort.” Is there a “skort” for female Venturers?

Yeah, I didn't like them putting those two segments together. It seemed like they were trying to imply that, until recently, we would have excluded Burmese boys from scouting.

that's exactly how I used to put it. I'd make the case that we were an extension of their youth ministry. I remember when i first thought of it that way... I was the CubMaster and basically also the CC and several committee member jobs too.... and I was having a discussion with the GS leader. They were being very stand-offish about letting non-parishioners into the troop. I made a strong case that i look at it as a ministry. That our hope should be that we engage in families not currently coming to church. That it would be a blessing if through our activities even just one family fou

How did you come across all that information if you don't mind me asking? No one in my council, not even the professional staff, have received anything like that

Read the thread about BSA and their love of poor process and paperwork to keep council and district staff busy. That's why they do it. Right hand, meet left hand.

I want to say I'm overthinking this, but sadly I'm probably not... It is more than a tad bit suspicious to me that every girl in the group pictured on the original post is wearing the new skirt, and they're out doing outdoorsy stuff in front of BSA banners. Because we know how easy it is to get every kid to show up in identical uniform and we all make sure to take our regulation BSA banners with us on all outings, right? Why do so many of these media pieces reference some girl being the first to register in their area/council/region? What is going on here? I wanted to be optimi

Was it a Scottish person?? I know I know...not a skirt

Agreed. There should been a freeze on any girl uniform items for at least a couple of years. They don't need them, at the cub level the clothing is universal enough to fit a boy or a girl. If they wanted to roll out girl-specific products later, fine. But at the launch of the program, it just sends the wrong message. The opposite message of what we've been trying to express, really, that girls want the boy program as-is, and we're giving them that same program and experience. Except we're not, if you're a girl, you should wear this impractical gender-specific uniform item.

Fair enough and true. So I recalculated. But, since Explorers were effectively split (in this statistical report) with School/Career based Exploring moving to LFL and some staying under Exploring program, I removed exploring altogether. This was to compare apples to apples. Leaving Explorers in, but not LFL, creates an impression that there was a significant drop in participation rather than a reclassification of what was a member. That said, the comparison of the 70's membership drop is still valid and between BSA and GSUSA and both still suffer very equivalent drops. Clearly there were

Agreed, refugee and immigrant scouts are not a new face (membership) of the BSA.

@HelpfulTracks, we don't usually count Learning for Life members - as many of those participants aren't even aware that their school registered them in the BSA. Excluding that (as well as 18+ year-olds in Venturing and Exploring), we see steady declines in the traditional program - going back to the nationalization of the 18th birthday requirement for Eagle.

Meanwhile in England...

The bulk of services - like 99% - is supplied by volunteers. The money is raised by council to meet council payroll. Our new SE tells us that the model that most of the council employee time being devoted to raising funds for council is going to change to spending time on unit service. Alternative? Follow the model of the rest of the world and spend lot's less on employees. I once met the entire paid staff of a Canadian "district" that served more youth than my council - all four of them. Windsor District. Our council employed twenty-seven at the time with a couple of vacancies,

Regarding my neck of the woods, the PTB want us to budget 10% "miscellaneous" for any last minute unexpected stuff. Whatever is not used goes to the council coffers. In my experience with CSDC and camporees, something ALWAYS comes up last minute that the 10% misc helps. One year at day camp supplies were "diverted" to the main summer camp. Didn't realize this until after day camp was over. But off I went to get supplies at the local Hobby Lobby. At camporee this year, I had to buy of unexpected supplies since the DE double booked the camp with a Cub Scout event. Yep, the flagging, signs, and

No plaques for me please. On the other hand if, in my name, you create a $600 campership for scouts or scholarship for scouters' training or even a gas buy-down for parents who transport scouts, I would be truly honored.

Actually, the presumption of innocence was the law in England at the time of the Revolution. Part of what the colonists were rebelling against was the fact that many of the rights enjoyed by those in Britain, including the presumption of innocence, were being denied in many parts of the colonies. So you are partly correct... from a certain point of view.

That article ends What we owe all people, including women, is to listen to them and to respect them and to take them seriously. But we don’t owe anyone our unthinking belief. “Trust but verify” may not have the same ring as “believe all women.” But it’s a far better policy. Sounds fair.

I don't think so. I haven't seen any great conspiracy by women to use false accusations to gain dominance over men. I think the vast majority of women are well intentioned and are attempting to find an adequate response to a real problem. That said, I think most women are unaware of the number of false accusations that are made against good men.

Wow I thought this was a joke at first ... As a den leader, I would be appalled if I wasn't invited into the monthly committee meetings. In fact all parents, den leaders, and interested parties expected to be at our committee meetings, and we have a great program going. But I would hesitate to be part of any program where the den leaders, the very core of the Cub Program, are not welcome.

If you’re not a proficient swimmer then skip Seabase. Any of their programs require being. Good swimmer and being able to demonstrate it.

In our pack, we always wanted the den leaders to attend. So much of what we covered involved them. Pack meeting plans, campout plans, join Scouting plans, advancement, etc. These always had some impact on, and needed the involvement of, the den leaders. So, we were glad to have them. If your pack is organized in a way that you cover this in a different forum, then it may be less important.

Love Daniel Boone. I have so many memories from summer camp there twice. Great camp.

You are somewhat right... I did receive the email. To be fair this email could have matched the last 7 years of email for this even just change the name of the sender.! No! I did not go to this event this year! But! my responses are not with out merit, I did follow up with others on what I missed at this years meeting ( I have been staple at these in the past ) and I do have well over 12 years as a district and council volunteer serving in several positions. District Vice Chair, Assistant District Commissioner and F.F.O.S. Chair to name a few. If you read my post.. I state m

Oh, I thought that was a blood pressure cuff for people who like to read constantly.

Maybe there should be a square knot for some of these other eagle-equivalent ranks. We've got that new Scouting Service Award square knot that is used to recognize several awards into this one square knot. There could be a square knot for international rank recognition, listing approved ranks/programs that the award would cover.

The message of this CBS piece is clear: The Scouting movement as a boy organization is dying. The future of Scouting is girls. The demise of yet another traditional American institution (no wonder the media is so gleefully reporting it). Benedict Surbaugh is actively promoting this message in his full-access interview with CBS. Let's see how this works. Sales of Pontiac cars are dropping. Pontiac diehards love the brand because of storied performance cars like GTO, Firebird, and TransAm, but the new models have been unexciting sedans and even generic minivans. In desperation, the Pon

Yep, and it is that very file that no other organization had anything like for protection that caused much of the legal issues when the courts decided to open them up to the legal scavengers so they could drag stuff into "the light". It mattered not that it was a different time and most of the cases had been put away at the request of families who did not want to put their kids in the public theater of the time. Yes, there were some that today would have immediately been prosecuted, but it was not up to the BSA to make that decision, and most of the cases in the files had gone to authorities

I can't believe what I'm reading here. From Scouters no less. We're an organization that suppressed abuse claims for decades, and now we've got people here suggesting that the current openness and dialogue around very real sexual abuse cases is a bad thing? Just when I think this forum can't possibly shock me anymore...