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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/14/18 in all areas

  1. 4 points
    How will it work? By boots on the ground not caring about a rodent's mule, digging in and getting it done! This could have been done yesterday by saying "If a lady is knocking at the door, you may open it, we'll recognize her achievements." Then, they could get together with troops who've done so, and share the best practices with the rest of us. BSA breeds leaders. Maybe they should let them lead.
  2. 2 points
    I’ve recently watched a video put out by national where the VP(s) of membership (?) explained how it’s going to work. Everyone in my area was under the impression that there would be co-ed troops. Even our UC though so, but I guess we were all wrong. It’s supposedly going like this: Cub Scouts - Co-Ed Pack (Sep. Dens) - All Girl - All Boy Boy Scouts - All Boy Troops - All Girl - NO Co-Ed Venturing -Stays the same, Co-Ed I think it’s going to cause issues personally, because leaders may do the same with girl Troops like they did in Girl Scouts. There won’t be many leaders in the Girl Troops that know how BSA runs and will take a while to learn because it’s a lot different than GS.
  3. 2 points
    If the training material were only excellent.
  4. 1 point
    I heard similar conversations. Some people seem to be upset that they will be FORCED to have coed units because there will not be enough leaders, enough meeting space, enough money etc. etc. etc. My reply is simple. If you do not heave leaders, space or money then don't start a unit for girls. And I am told that is not an option, because we have people beating down our door for girls to join. Okay, then you have leaders and money. Do just like you would starting a boy unit, parents need to volunteer, they need to pony up and help fund raise. And if there is not enough space they need to help find a CO with suitable space. And if they cannot, then there won't be a unit. Coed units will only exist if people decide they want to ignore BSA policy, not because they are forced to create coed units.
  5. 1 point
    Also, regarding online training, I agree it can be more convenient for the average Scouter in today's fast-paced world However, I often, as a trainer, stress that one of the most important things you learn from an in-person event is what you get from the give-and-take with other Scouters. When we are face-to-face in a "classroom" we do, in fact, get more than what the video tells us online. I prefer in-person training, personally, but I understand the need for and desire for online versions.
  6. 1 point
    And the deception continues.... OH, BUT when we had a Venture Crew and Troop in the same CO with the same adults running things. I.e, we were bending the rules far enough to actually have a co-ed group in reality and everything looked good on paper. They couldn't figure out what to do with the 11-13 year olds, but now that we have the ability to register gals, we can just do the same thing and fully co-ed the group while maintaining 2 units on paper. The acceptable amount of dishonesty allowed by BSA seems to have risen quite almost imperceptibly for quite some time how. BSA's half-measures now should allow for acceptance of such deception on a wider scale.
  7. 1 point
    How about eliminating he boring parts and replacing it with good training - like if BSA was competing for your time? I have witnesses awful training - and training where the learners didn't want to leave when the sessions were over.
  8. 1 point
    If BSA were to ever get it's act together they could produce a number of training sessions by using videos. The boring classroom parts could all be one for free over the internet and maybe the hands-on parts could meet for half the time at less expense. Participant booklets and reference guides could be printed off over the internet for those that want them People would be more apt to take the training if they could do it for free at a time most convenient to their schedules. That ain't happening now and then there's all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes into why people aren't trained. Other organizations are doing this, why is BSA such a Johnny-come-lately? Answer that question and you'll get better results with training of the volunteers.
  9. 1 point
    Theoretically troops are suppose to remain all male and all female. As I was told by several Scouters, having a CO charter 2 separate troops is not practical. Financially having 2 separate groups doesn't make sense. And since there will be a strong chance that volunteers will be working with boys will also work with the girls, it won't be possible to have busy volunteers deal with another set of meetings each week, another weekend of camping a month, and another week of summer camp. Just as packs and troops have ignored national with allowing girls to do things with no apparent repercussions, you will have "paper" girls troops who in reality will be integrated into their own patrols in existing troops. When I mentioned this at the town hall, everyone in the room acknowledged that this would happen, except the council president, commission, and Scout Exec. All three Ignored the statement and consensus. They, and the folks at national, know it will happen. Heck, in the CSE's 20 questions video, when asked about coed dens, spoke out of both ends of his mouth. First he said no, then he goes on about units he worked with with low numbers and how they combined dens and "as long as everyone works out of their own book, they're fine."
  10. 1 point
    No. She has to start at Scout and work her way up. She has to abide by the same rules I did. She joins and earns Scout and then has to earn the other ranks. You can’t get credit for work before joining just like webelos and non scouts can’t get credit now. The requirements say “while a scout” which means a USA registered scout. If you bend the rules for her you need to bend them for everyone else. Why is she so special?
  11. 1 point
    TO continue where you left off. When a time extension is requested, the Scout should continue working on the requirements as processing occurs. In most cases, for a request to be considered the following five tests must be met. 1. The member joined or rejoined—or became active again after a period of inactivity*—in time to complete all requirements before turning 18. Miss Ireland would not qualify under the first test alone.
  12. 1 point
    After all is said and done, what about all the hundreds of gals out there that didn't have deep pocket dad's resources to put into one's scouting career, didn't find a rogue pack/troop to smooth her way, that didt follow the rules and will miss out on Eagle? So lets look at what's different, wealthy background, rogue pack, rogue troop, a few bent rules, and maybe an extension of time, all those things that will allow Ms. Ireland beat out all the other competition that didn't exist because they chose do it in an honest way. We'll see how truly gracious Ms. Ireland is in her own words, that aren't paraphrased by her father.
  13. 1 point
    Yes, she is unique. Every situation, every person is unique. The requirements are not, they are standard. So we change the standard just for her, because she is unique. So now everyone that is unique has a precedent to work from. What about the poor girl from Iowa, who lives in a community of Troops that followed the rules? Lesson learned, follow the rules, and you have good character. Don't follow the rules and you get what you want, and a Eagle Scout to put on your resume. But little else. I think we fail them both in that circumstance. Maybe more importantly, you are telling Troops around the country, that it is okay to ignore policy, do it long enough and with enough good press any its all okay, we will reward you. If there is a legitimate way for to EARN Eagle Scout, then more power to her, I will wish her well and congratulations. But, if that path requires, bending or breaking rules, or making exceptions, then no.
  14. 1 point
  15. 1 point
    As it happens I am at Gilwell Park as I type! Massive event called winter camp, big weekend jamboree affair. We come every year it's great fun Gilwell are quite welcoming to visitors, phone in advance and they'll have you there. Be aware that's it's in a transitional phase. A lot of the old buildings are being closed knocked down and replaced. So the famous camp square looks quite run down but is due to be totally rebuilt. Brownsea is indeed run by the National Trust which is a charity that looks after a lot of historic sites. It's open to visitors all year, no need to book advance. There's a passenger ferry from Poole harbour. Very beautiful and the original campsite is still there. Scouts can camp there but need to book years in advance! If you have any problem with wasps be aware it's infested with them. There are plenty of places to camp near Poole and you can do a day trip there. We went for the day in 2015 while camping at a place called Ferny Crofts in 2015. Photos here http://12thcambridge.org.uk/summer-camp-2015/
  16. 1 point
    Question. 1) Either youa re a member or you are not? 2) How can she earn the AOL if she was not a Cub Scout, but a "tagalong" 3)If she earned the Chief Scout Award, how can she not completed rank and MBs and not be recognized?
  17. 1 point
    Welcome to the forum, thanks for not lurking anymore! My son quit scouts 20 years ago. I didn't.
  18. 1 point
    That would be opening a massive Pandora's box. As far as I have seen extension are given for medical reasons or for special needs Scouts, a date range for a policy change does not fit the spirit of the extension rule. Exceptions are given on a case by case basis and need a darn good reason. Even if BSA concluded that the policy change IS a darn good reason, which I do not think it is, and doubt BSA will either, that would set up the situation where any girl 17 years 364 days old or less could ask for an extension. Denying the extension to some and not others would be a potential legal nightmare. Dozens, maybe hundreds or even thousands of girls litigating for the same exemption. At a tipping point BSA almost certainly would be financially forced to decide any girl who joined before age 18 has an automatic 2 year extension. You then have bunch of young men who want to same extension. Many more that just missed it asking for an extension. Running down the rabbit hole you could find many more reasons that could cause litigation and take money away from the program. Set a date policy and stick to it. Having one high profile legal action is much better than a possible onslaught of many more. If it were my daughter I would feel horrible for her, but I have taught my children that not everything goes your way.
  19. 1 point
    I suspect Mr. Ireland is not a very good lawyer because his research and reading comprehension skills are considerably lacking. Even my 19 year old son knows where to find the WSJ registration requirements. But what happens if Ms. Ireland is not one of the 10,000 people selected to go for the US contingent? Will she badger her Canadian friends in Ontario to be part of theirs? If she does not get in there will daddy fly her to Zimbabwe to be part of their contingent? Where does this sense of entitlement end? He knows darn well that she could go, IF SELECTED, as a member of a Venturing Crew or even a member of her Canadian-based unit. He's being purposely argumentative to try to force an issue for HIS kid. Talk about poster children for entitlement.
  20. 1 point
    Per her the aforementioned article. Her father, corporate attorney Gary Ireland, slammed the BSA for this. “It is outrageous and embarrassing that the Scouts will ban local young women from participating, particularly as we are the host country,” he said. “Scouts need to be a certain age and rank to attend a Jamboree. With the Boy Scouts allowing girls into the program very soon, it is unclear why they continue to refuse admission to Sydney.” That does not seem polite, courteous or respectful.
  21. 1 point
    This family is BSA's version of the Kardashians or the Balls (for any NBA fans). Young girl just keeps asking to be a Boy Scout (and now Eagle Scout) while father continues to bad mouth BSA--all the while orchestrating a steady stream of photo ops and interviews. She could go to Jambo as a Venturer--with no drama. But, no, now she wants to go to Jambo as a Boy Scout.
  22. 1 point
    Well...except for Daddy Ireland Her father, corporate attorney Gary Ireland, slammed the BSA for this. “It is outrageous and embarrassing that the Scouts will ban local young women from participating, particularly as we are the host country,” he said. “Scouts need to be a certain age and rank to attend a Jamboree. With the Boy Scouts allowing girls into the program very soon, it is unclear why they continue to refuse admission to Sydney.” As has been noted there are a myriad or ways for her to attend the World Jamboree. But that is just the straw man argument
  23. 1 point
    Change agent? Really? When someone asks for special consideration that is not being a "change agent", that's being a self-absorbed, egotistical manipulator. It's not like she's Rosa Parks here. It would be like me demanding my bank lend to me despite my 330 credit score. They have their own rules as a private bank as to who they lend to. Can I ASK for them to change and make an exception? SURE!! But to EXPECT...and to continue to press the issue...once the answer has been given is not being a "change agent". That's being self-absorbed and expecting special treatment. The way I read that article (and other interview with this family), the father as been exactly that...behaving poorly and disrespectful of the BSA. When a child asks for a cookie before dinner and a parent tells them no -- and they keep asking, then bad-mouthing the parent -- should they not be labelled a spoiled, petulant child?
  24. 1 point
    I was being purposely obtuse. I KNOW I can ask. The POINT was that I know better. I live by the rules. I read them and I abide by them. Since BSA is a membership organization and can make their own rules, I don't openly ask them to change them just to accommodate me. Why? Because I believe in allowing organizations -- even ones I disagree with -- to do what they like, how they like. I don't ask to cut in line at Whataburger because I am hungrier than the people in front of me, I wait my turn. If you read the article she goes on to say how she cannot go to the world jamboree? "Her primary concern is trying to get the BSA to speed up the inclusion date from 2019. Unless admitted very soon, she’ll be unable to participate in certain activities like the 2019 International Jamboree, to be held in West Virginia." Really? She can't join a Venturing Crew and go? Her Ontario unit can't go? Please. And if you read further you see her father's fingerprints all over this issue. Lawyers....Shakespeare had the right idea.
  25. 1 point
    And that's not asking for special treatment? BSA has already said it will be 2019. Asking to get in earlier *IS* asking for special permission, an exception, special consideration. I'd like to do my BOR from 1981. It was the only thing I didn't do for Eagle. Can I ask for special consideration? I know a handful of Life Scouts that were too involved in high school stuff to complete a few requirements toward Eagle, can they ask for special consideration? BSA has said when they will open Boy Scouts to girls. End of story....unless you are like this girl who wants preferential treatment.