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I encourage patrol camping over troop camping. 2 vehicles is usually enough for a patrol (6-8 scouts) and gear plus the two adults driving (3 at most). No need for trailer, or plethora of adults. Most locations for awesome trips don't have space for 20 people to camp, many areas do not allow groups sizes that big anyway. The ones that do are car camping sites. Many issues troops have, as referenced in this thread could be mitigated by focusing on patrol camping. Save the troop-centric camping for the camporees, etc... There are many other benefits as well. For example, Imagine a patrol trip wi

Did we change topics? I get confused when we sometimes we’re told to stay on topic and other times we go so far off.

@WisconsinMomma, as a CM or ACM, your paycheck is the smiles on boys faces. Work for smiles. If other leaders move in our out, remind them. Work for smiles. You really want people to be stepping up into your shoes. If other leaders are doing that for you, be with grace or spite, let them. Your paycheck is not any attaboys from some adults. Work for smiles.

@WisconsinMomma, this is all normal crap that creates adult drama in the scout units. This is the reason I quit a lot of activities over the years. Church politics.?.. yep after 15 years, just walked away even though I had spent 4 years training. Reenacting?,.... It took me 13 years to work my way up from private to captain/president of the group and it was time to leave. Venturing Crew? Advisor for 13 years until the CC decided he wanted to be in charge. Walked away, no regrets. 15 years as ASM trying to turn an adult led program into what it's supposed to be? Time to move on. I h

Well, I'm finally shaking this bronchitis I've had for the past few weeks, there's space in the SM's car for me and my gear, and it looks like a weekend worthy of my presence (some rain, temperatures falling back to the teens, and snow in the evening) ... so I'm grabbing my hammock and my tarp and finding two solid trees near where my first SM showed me how to tie a taught line hitch. I asked the bugler to be ready to work his calls. His eyes lit up. Paycheck. I work for smiles. After PLC, I mentioned to the SPL that I'm available to help his older scouts plan an extended activity be

What is shocking about the Boy Scout brand right now is if you go onto Google and do a search for "Boy Scouts" most of what you see is NOT what we should be seeing from a healthy and loved program. Most of what you see are about Girls in the Boy Scouts and most those pages go out of their way to attack boys. There are many stories about pedophile scout leaders. Many pages about getting God out of scouting. While talking to boys ages 11 to 17 about joining scouts, I get an earful of bad impressions young men now have of scouting that was not the case back in the 1970's when I was a sco

Well the scamp in my (censored) story was so dang cute that it seemed really not that vulgar to me. I may have used some safer euphemisms around the campfire. I hear worse on long backpacking trips for whatever reason. Usually are 'naughty' stories are similar dealing with cat hole mishaps, latrine explosions, or tics/critters affixing themselves to 'extremely inconvenient places') Occasionally they make it to an ECOH and skirt the edge of shocking the moms. Good fun. One change in all that is once you get one mom hanging around the scouts campfire those stories don't get told. Ever

After 45+ years, I took my boys out for a camping/fishing outing this past fall. We got out there in the rain and it literally down-poured while setting up camp, in the dark. I had warned my boys that this day was going to be coming down the road someday and voila, there it was in full fury. After helping the boys get settled in, it was my time to set up my tent..... NO WAY. I crawled into the back of my pickup truck to get out of the rain, blew up the air mattress so I didn't sleep on the rippled flooring, changed into dry clothes and went to bed. The mattress leaked so I got up every ho

Seen it too. Irony is that the Council VP of Camping was complaining to me about Cub Family camping and how the families bring everything but the kitchen sink. This was while loading up his truck with all of his gear for a display promoting Boy Scout camping. I was the one promoting Cub Scout camping, and everything fit either in my backpack, or in my hands (trifold display). Grant you, my pack is 85-90L but it beats hi extended cab pickup. Although I admit, the family that brought their RV to Webeloree b/c mom was pregnant was the worse thing I saw.

Well I have told the story at a campfire with some older scouts but I get you. Moving on.

If it's not a story you'd say around your Scouts, then it's not something we should have on the forum. That's been the unofficial standard since I joined. I&P has been a bit of an exception since most of us don't talk politics around our Scouts. Obviously if @Tampa Turtle wants to share his story with @Back Pack in a PM that's fair game. I found it humorous before it was hidden, but not really appropriate for a public Scouting forum. Has nothing to do with the "kids table." Even though Scouter.com is not an official BSA publication, we still need to represent the movement well.

The biggest issue with Eagle is the paperwork. The various requirements are easy. Leadership is easy though in big troops getting a slot when you want it can be a problem. MBs are easy but finding a class or the time to work on them can be challenging. It’s when you hit the project and the workbook that your eyes glaze over. None of my friends got through it without adult assistance of some kind. The younger kids who got through it had mom and dad help them almost entirely on the project and the workbook.

Luckily if we use state parks they have rules against too many cars. Several parks require you to walk to your site. Our PLC would use these locations to combat parents car camping.

AH that is why the whitewater trip is a "Family Trip:" each family is responsible for themselves. Another reason why I am not going. As a BSA Lifeguard, I'm going to be responsible regardless of what they call it. And yes, I mentioned SSD and SA, as well as G2SS rules to the adults when it first came up. And that is why I was told it's a "family campout.' And after the last canoeing weekend, which turned into a family camp out, I'm not dealing with it. Glad the canoeing weekend will be the same as the backpacking weekend for the older Scouts. As for siblings/children and dogs, kinda

Maybe we are just waaay old school, but I can (and have seen) how what you describe can happen. We are not that kind of troop. We do have to engage drivers. While we there is reimbursement, in the last 10 years nobody has asked for it. Note we have 30 - 40 scouts attend outings, so 8 - 10 cars each trip. Usually mostly leaders but a few spare ones for transport. Mostly we recommend deducting the mileage. We do have moms drive and some non camping dads. Clear emphasis is to get them unloaded and back on their way asap. That being said we typically can camp within 2 hours or less of

Magical stuff. I am just old enough to have to write a thesis on a typewriter. But it was electric and had an auto-correct tape feature. You have no idea what you missed. In grade school I just loved the smell of the mimeograph machine in the morning. It smelled like victory.

OK so we are all living on the same planet. I feel better....I am not crazy. Yes we are experiencing that same blurring of the lines. My son mentioned one cause in our Troop. We used to have a 15 passenger van we shared with our Troop. Could pull a small trailer with the two required adults and 13 boys which sufficed for some trips. Then we had to stop using the van and the church and the troop did not have the funds to replace it so we needed dads (and a few moms) for transport. (we do reimburse for gas and since many are trucks it increased each campers cost more than what you tho

I’ve listened to my dad preach this to PLC during training every year, but wouldn’t everyone going rafting need a swim test and certain training? Don’t you need a trained adult to particant ratio too? I can tell you if my unit went family about 90 percent of the scouts would quit. We use scouting to be with friends and not hang with mom, dad and little sister.

This is a great site to vent. You have a legitimate right to feel hurt but I wouldn't take it to heart. I always think of the end of East of Eden when Charles Trask laments why he always got the short end of the stick and the story goes back to Cain and Abel and why did God favor Abels gift over Cains? And the answer is maybe God prefers lamb over vegetables. quazse is right, it really is about the boys. I am frustrated with my Troop, give my opinion when asked but try to stay out of the way for a lot of poor decision making. Once I feel the boys don't even care I am there...

Sorry I thought we were PG-13. Hard to tell the story without the actual words. Again, sorry. Too bad it is a good story.

Or just go on eBay and buy a car. Have your au pair attend the Pack meeting with your son and fire her if he loses. I’m not sure why everyone is making this so complicated. I’m not a fan of 3D printed car idea at this point... perhaps in the future when they are cheaper and more widely available. For now, keep it simple and have the kids build as much of the car as they can based on their ability. Ever since we found out (after the race ceremony) that our winning scouts car was purchased for nearly $100 on eBay I’ve soured on the event. Overall it is fun for parents and kids b

Wayyyyy too difficult. Mix pine sawdust with Elmer's glue, mold to make it look like a car. Let dry, sand a bit and paint. And as an extra thought, one does not need a band saw to make a PWD car. That's a dad's way of doing it, not the boys.

My answer to that dilemma is to let the troop know that whatever weekend is picked for "Family" camp, you will be busy doing real family camping where BSA and all of it's drama doesn't get in the way of having a good time and you can wear your favorite flannel shirt instead of a uniform. I grew up knowing the difference and my family camped way more often than the scouts did. I did learn, however, that scouting was different because I camped with my buddies instead of my family. There was a reason for doing it that way. The other problem is the SM having to take on moms and dads wh

If there's that much drama going on, it's best not to get in the middle of it. That whole process is not for the boys' benefit, so it sounds like you've taken the right course of action. You did mention interest in the DL position. Why are you not where you want to be? The DL job is all "for the boys". Unless the adults "click" on the notion of doing it for the boys, it's best just to let them go off and do their own thingy and take on a job you really prefer and do well at. I have always through that any assistant job is t make the boss look good and be successful. In your case, I do

Don't know. I have no connection with one batch of Scouts, and I don't want any with them either. If we keep getting more like them, and their parents, I can see myself leaving.

@Stosh...when the University where I work awards honorary doctorates, it's usually a Doctor of Humane Letters (LHD), not a PhD. When we advertise for faculty, we specify an earned doctorate in an appropriate field...anyone without an earned doctorate, who was given an honorary one and then insisted on being called "Doctor" would get laughed at for sure.

@Stosh "just as valid"...what do you mean. Yes they are an honorific but beyond that do not convey anything but recognition not that they completed any coursework. An honorary degree in law for example will not put you on the road to practice. Maybe I am missing something. I remember when I was at a state university they were usually handed out when the famous speaker came out at commencement and was willing to take a lower speakers fee usually because they had a relative graduating as well that day...was really a pot sweetener.

"phone and video games are the first thing that should go." This is hard and it is painful. But I talked to a counselor the other day and they have LOTs of kids middle to high who are tanking grades because of screen time. The FIRST thing they say is at the very least to sharply curtail it time-wise and make it physically inaccessible the other times. My son now only has internet access in the living room so we know when he is doing it and not. We are fighting the same fight. One son of mine was no great scholar and often was very active in scouts instead of studying. We tolerated th

Venturing is going to go away except for maybe college town units. There really isn't much call for post-high school groups that treat the members like children and need to be monitored with adult supervision at an expense to the members.

I'm tired of the helicopter parents. After the wanting of a guarantee that nothing will happen to their Scout, a veiled threat to several of us at the meeting, I don't want anything to do with the helicopters or their sons. My house, which has hosted several troop functions, is no longer available after an incident at the Christmas party at my house. And my sons are not to have anything to do with the helicopters, nor their children. A conversation I will be having with the SM Monday.

This family is BSA's version of the Kardashians or the Balls (for any NBA fans). Young girl just keeps asking to be a Boy Scout (and now Eagle Scout) while father continues to bad mouth BSA--all the while orchestrating a steady stream of photo ops and interviews. She could go to Jambo as a Venturer--with no drama. But, no, now she wants to go to Jambo as a Boy Scout.

Take away his video games and his phone before taking away Scouting.

We had a very active Patrol frustrated by the lack of backpacking plan a 3-day trip on their own (a good sign). They were actively discouraged by a worried CC who said it looked like they were being 'exclusionary'. So they didn't go on their backpacking trip and the Troop didn't either. That was last year. This year I would just scrounge up the two adults, fire up the minivan and go.

This is Boy Scouts? Oh, I feel for you @Tampa Turtle. I would have tapped out looooong ago if that was the case. That's not Boy Scouting...that's a Pack event.

Of course you can ask. Anyone can ask anything they want. The answer is going be (and should be) no, which I believe is the same answer the BSA will (and should) give Ms. Ireland. I actually see nothing wrong with her asking. I think it's great that she wants to be a Something-Scout and do the work required to earn Eagle. That doesn't mean she can, because she was born too soon. She can probably be a Something-Scout for a short period but apparently will not have time to earn Eagle. Maybe she will want to become an ASM in the Something-Scouts when she turns 18. They are going to ne

... but isn't that the point? Remove council or district approval and the need for duplication plummets. It doesn't need to be a digital nightmare. Accept the proposal in the form of a plain text E-mail addressing points on an outline ... with the scout attesting that he has collected the requisite signatures. Otherwise, request a hardcopy be mailed to the district or handed to the district advancement chair at round-table.

"Preclude" means that, by specifying a class that language includes, one may make straightforward inference about which class is excluded. If the language did address any specific class it would be an exclusion. By stating clearly that the class includes members of foreign scouting organization's who temporarily reside in the US, the language precludes members of foreign scouting organization's who permanently reside in the us. But, suppose there is some other young woman who has been doing a bang up job in the scout association of her homeland. She comes to the US next year, joinin

Lol. Great question. And I'm laughing because I remember a very specific BOR with a 16-year-old. It was for Second Class. We have about 100 kids in the troop, so I didn't know them all. All I knew was the next BOR was for Second Class. Well, in strolls this 16-year-old kid. We thought it was a mistake and we were checking the name on the IHR and everything. And the kid speaks up: "No you got it right. I'm here for the Second Class BOR." This kid had been a Scout since he was 11. AND he had over 75 miles hiking and over 40 nights camping. He had been to summer camp a couple of t

I think I understand different perspectives from sitting on Eagle BORs for many years. While some highlight the maturity and experience of an Eagle Scout candidate who presents himself at 17 years and 11 months and 29 days, I find myself fighting back negative thoughts. Sometimes he doesn't even own a Scout shirt that fits him anymore, and his most recent patches are from attending summer camp in 2014. Asking a simple question like "when was the last time you went camping with your troop?" reveals that he went inactive years ago and only returned for some last-minute cramming to finish hi

I understand the frustration. One thing I have noticed is that we (all?) have troop meetings, but how many have patrols which meet weekly? Few, I would guess. Probably close to zero if the Patrol meetings are not part of the troop meeting. I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to encourage Patrol meetings IN PLACE OF (capsfor emphasis) troop meetings at least 1x/month. One problem is most of us use churches, schools, firehalls, etc as meeting places and the patrols dont really have a place of their own. The "patrol corners" is an attempt at providing the infrastructure resource, but IMO fails mi

If one is local to the area they may be more cognizant of the hazards or in the case of others a healthy sense of paranoia helps too. I grew up in the northern Midwest. We camp in the woods and along side of rivers all the time and very few around me take into consideration factors that I have, over the years, just took as part of my site selection. High winds, lightning and tornadoes are a way of life for us. Dead trees are lightning magnets as well as producing Widow Makers as an added attraction. It takes a bit to make the creek rise around here, but they do and can do quickly. Th

All this is good info. What bothers me most is the rainfall totals throughout Texas and the southwest were well above normal during the spring and winter. The onset of the summer monsoons were also historically higher than normal. This should have been a fair warning to the professionals in charge. These were historic conditions; meaning historic high water marks would be in danger of being overtaken. If you look at the camp map and the video of where the camp sites were in relation to the cabin, they were camping well below the high water mark.

I was very happy as a den leader for 4 years for my middle son's group, and so I've already had the most wonderful time in Scouting. Of course, it's easy to say that when it's all over, it was hard work. My youngest son has a Bear den leader and that den is stable. One of the volunteers for CM stepped up to help his son's Wolf den, and I think that was a great move for him. When my middle son crossed over, I offered to be ACM,and you know that's not a bad role, not much responsibility, no pressure, etc.: ) Maybe I should take a nap and be content with ACM. When I was a den leader