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  1. I just completed a scouting survey. It included standard questions and asked for recommendations. It has additional questions for Scoutmasters that dug into collecting feedback about how girls troops are run (are they really independent or integrated and if integrated how integrated are they). It then had questions about recommendations if BSA should consider coed Troops and if they were coed, how integrated should the integrated Troops be managed. Hopefully this is really a survey to get input before decisions but I know that is not always the case. However, I can say that BSA must b
    7 points
  2. Perhaps it is just my highschool, but as a parent of a teenager I have to say expectations of what teens must do far exceed what was expected of teens 20, 30, 50 years ago. First, they are expected to take college level courses in high school. When I was a kid, I took 2 AP courses, now ... If you want any chance to get selected by a highly selected university you need at least 8. Plus you need to have nearly perfect grades and an ACT/SAT that is very high. Then look at sports. When I was a kid you can simply walk on to most teams and the sport lasts the season. Now, the best t
    5 points
  3. We once had a Commissioner show up at a B/G to present the Pack Charter. I am not exaggerating, he looked like a North Korean General. He was a long time Scout/Scouter and was wearing EVERY possible award that had ever been presented to him, from the Bobcat pin to his youth MB sash, OA sash, medals, neck ribbons, etc.
    5 points
  4. Thank you all for the input. We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.
    4 points
  5. There certainly is room for discussion on those points, and on CO rights when it comes to membership, etc. My concern here is not about individual units, or CO discretion when it comes to who they allow to be a part of their chartered unit. This is about the broader ongoing harassment about girls being in the BSA at all, from people who very clearly would like to see girls excluded from the Scouts BSA program entirely.
    4 points
  6. For you, maybe. Some survivors (including myself) do find on balance that it is healing. It got me back to therapy and there will be some sort of finality. How many people actually post in this thread regularly, 20? Are even half of those stating they were abused in BSA? It's just such a small representation of the number of victims. I'm glad to see @Bzzyadding a voice and it's crushing to know this is not the case for everyone. That was me for a good portion of the bankruptcy process (mad at the underfunding, inequity of distribution, the lousy lawyers, the amount of time, etc.
    4 points
  7. GS/USA might have and issue. You see, BSA likes to tally up all the service hours of every scout, multiply that by some dollar wage amount, and claim that they provide that many millions of dollars of service to the country. Now you're saying that maybe some of those $ might also be claimed by another organization!🙃 As far as the scout's advancement, however, I'm in favor of double-dipping. There's something to be said for doing the kind of work that multiple groups want to recognize. Besides, I'm sure in ways that nobody's observed this scout's done more good that went unrecognized.
    4 points
  8. I wear my Eagle knot, and none others. (Not even sure what knots I might have earned, though, District Award of Merit, and Silver Beaver, are among them.) It is all about the youth. Not about me. I have at least 8 Eagle mentor pins. (Our troop has had the practice of only having an Eagle presenting a single Mentor Pin. Eagles one per I wear none of them. Those who need or want to know, they know.
    4 points
  9. It's been 5 years of girls being in the Scouts BSA program, and yet every time the BSA posts a picture featuring a girl in uniform on Instagram, out come the scouts, scouters, and what appears to be just random other adults to complain about girls being in the BSA. I was in a virtual training session held by the Marketing team at National last night and a Scouter took to the chat to complain about gay and trans youth being allowed in the program. Then I go over to reddit and read a story about a girl who got nasty looks from supposed "adults" at a restaurant because she was an Eagle
    3 points
  10. Right. Signs can be moved. Schedules can be adjusted. Separate times scheduled and posted for youth/adult and female/male is good practice. That the troop was unable to accommodate male troop camping next to them speaks volumes of their leadership.
    3 points
  11. I"m sure this camp falls under a council. How about bringing it up to the council board. Just not going is good for your unit, but leaves the same problem that would fill your troop's week. How about identifying the troop to council and camp that took over the latrine. I'm more of the thinking Scouts can be courteous, but not a weak victim and just take it on the chin. Standing up for yourself and others is scout like too...brave? And to those leaders on the site (I hope they contribute) that condone taking over the latrine, you allowed Scouts to show an ugly side of shared camping and
    3 points
  12. I'm curious, what is the latest traditional male gender role that is considered a threat? I'm one of those people who believe mixing females into the patrols puts the males at a disadvantage for personal growth, and possibly some harm by the adults. So, I struggle with the idea that girls are the ones at risk. I've seen way too much overhype on this forum to not be concerned for the boys. One poster was bragging just the other day about all the girl cubs on the podium after the derby races. What was the point of the statement? Were boys also on the podium? We don't know, but we can imagin
    3 points
  13. This is a camp problem, not a you problem. Echoing similar advice: Don't leave it to chance. Address it with them before committing to camp and then hold them to it. If they can't commit to making it a comfortable experience (facilities and experience/emotionally) then find a better option if you can.
    3 points
  14. I recently took a flight and as we approached the destination gate I heard something along the lines of "We know you have many choices when choosing carriers and thank you for choosing XXX airlines" The same is true of Scout camps. If the camp cannot at least make an attempt to correct the situation they should not be surprised if that unit does not return next year.
    3 points
  15. How can a troop over ride the camp director? Barry
    3 points
  16. And which part of the Scout Oath and Law makes it OK to make up your own rules when you don't like the ones you agreed to follow when you signed your membership application?
    3 points
  17. I'd be having a conversation with the Camp Director, now. Make it clear to them- you're open to THEIR suggestions on how to share the use of the latrine, but explain in exactly the terms you outline here why only having the outside facility is not acceptable. It's a true public health issue if you and your troop cannot wash hands at times during the day. And, you're troop is paying the same as that troop, so it is not acceptable to you. If moving that troop to adjoin another site that has a female troop is a better option, then let the camp do so.
    3 points
  18. I thought that one of the points of YPT was to, in fact, shield scouts from people wishing to do harm? A lot of YPT is about prevention. Allowing hateful comments to remain on BSA social media posts (many remain and aren't deleted) seems like it would go against what we're trained to do, to stop the harm from continuing. We wouldn't just opt to ignore bullying comments made in-person, we respond to them, stop them, and address the scout or scouts making them. Comments made to make scouts feel unwelcome in the BSA constitute bullying, no matter where they happen. We certainly can't sh
    3 points
  19. Instagram is a public forum. And the BSA is tagging the troops they repost content from, so the scouts and scouters in those troops can (and do) see the comments. Yes I spoke up, as I intend to do anywhere I see this stuff, as well as share my concerns directly with whoever at National I can get to listen, starting with folks like Lisa Schuchart. So... what then? Adults should tell their scouts to not look at the posts the BSA tagged their troop in because of peoples' right to make hateful comments aimed at those scouts? Why do the kids have to look the other way on posts that t
    3 points
  20. There is certainly more hostility and rudeness everywhere today. IMHO, correcting character mistakes by following the Scout Oath and Law is part of the game's purpose as is having the Courtesy to express our thoughts civilly and listen to other viewpoints. Maybe uniformed Scouts should, once again, be at all voting locations this November? My $0.01 for rambling,
    3 points
  21. I guess it depends on what side of the fence one stands on where the haters are. Just look at the title of this discussion, The BSA should get tough on scouts and scouters? One fairly new scouter even suggested I be censored on a discussion of mixed genders. Seems some folks are willing to push hostility to a new level to get what they want. So, explain to me why I should encourage my grandkids to join the BSA in this hostile environment. The game has lost the purpose. Barry
    3 points
  22. 3/19/2024 excerpt from WOSM: Scouting for equality: Empowering voices against gender-based violence at UN Women’s Summit
    3 points
  23. Haters gonna hate. It’s hard to toe a hard line as BSA risks losing those who disagree. Not meant as an excuse, just a reality. Important thing is that BSA stays on track and does not waiver. Change takes time, and it will get there. Keep advocating.
    3 points
  24. Glad to see such things, too bad its not virtual. BSA really needs to include neurodiverity in its adult training, especailly since scouts seems to draw ND. So many neurotypicals just don't get it.
    3 points
  25. I think the best approach would be to give the CO's options, and let them decide how they wish to structure their Scouting program... Just like they already do with selection of adults, religious and character requirements, and whether they have a girl Troop under their umbrella. There are many that would wish to stay with the single-gender approach. There are many that would integrate.
    3 points
  26. It depends on how you define “tent”. At times my venturers slept under the stars. I didn’t bother to measure the distance between bedding to make sure they were the equivalent of two tent walls apart. (Although truth be told the sexes segregated on their own on most occasions.) It’s a big country, and National simply has no way to enforce a common culture on this.
    3 points
  27. Coed camping already occurs with venturing and Packs. So, we are really only talking about adding coed camping for 11, 12 and 13 yo. In addition, coed camping exists in those ages as linked Troops share camping sites all the time, including at BSA events. Clarification... When I say coed, I mean boys and girls camping at same site. Now, if you mean in the same tent, I agree that won't happen for a long time.
    3 points
  28. "Perhaps it is just my high school, but as a parent of a teenager I have to say expectations of what teens must do far exceed what was expected of teens 20, 30, 50 years ago. " While you make some cogent points, I believe the issue is an adult issue here as well. The expectations are those put there by adults, and the pressure is generally brought by the adults. Honors and AP classes, from my experience as a long term sub are not doing what they were intended to do. The grades are not accurately weighted by peer comparisons, but instead biased to higher grades, A and B mostly, because
    3 points
  29. It is difficult to talk about, until you do. A lot of us are exactly like you. We might be in different stages of dealing with our trauma, but we are all alike. Talking about what happened will help erase any shame you might have and help you realize that there was nothing you could have done. You are a survivor. What you survived was not only physical but mental trauma and just like seeing a doctor for physical trauma a mental health professional can help you with your mental trauma. DM me if you wish,
    3 points
  30. Since 1955, with a few gaps. Sequential since 1975 when reupped as adult. I mean, we even marched with dummy rifles in local parades with a VFW sponsor, and we rode in the backs of trucks, mostly open. Pack frames were often home made, or heavy wood, and bedrolls, rather than sleeping bags were fairly common, especially in our unit with VFW who furnished us all wool mummy bags. Yet, most of the past that I remember is familiar to today, just with modern adjustments. Moaning for the old days is nonsense, other than the disappearance of common sense and taking responsibility without be
    3 points
  31. I am new here, and I read this discussion from the start. There are a few very important points that have not been made clearly, so I will attempt below, as they are. These are isolated points, and make sweeping generalizations, so there are many edge conditions and exceptions I will not address, as I do not want to write a book. I attempt to present "fact", but others may have divergent views of these same "facts". I'll not argue. 1) The BSA reincorporated in DE specifically for purposes of bankruptcy because DE permits non-consensual 3rd party releases in bankruptcy while Texas does
    3 points
  32. I often think the reactions of some of the scouters on this site to certain things might be due to the fact that they perhaps no longer have younger kids involved in a public school district themselves. Or, if they do, their involvement may be limited to a more insular community like a scouts/church continuum. Some simply may not be exposed to things that seem very commonplace or mainstream to others.
    3 points
  33. The term upstander versus bystander has been used in anti-bullying programs for probably 15 - 20 years in many school systems. Exactly what we would hope a Scout would be if he or she witnessed bullying.
    3 points
  34. The OP’s question was “So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts?” when he sates his opinion that a lot people see woke and DEI as not beneficial. And that special events for minority groups versus majority (white males) in scouts is counter to DEI in BSA. That is what I gave a down arrow to. My response was to ask “What do you disagree with in the Cit in Society MB? Not talking about the political BS, "woke" or rest of it. What part of the requirements of the MB do you disagree with?
    3 points
  35. Winter birding highlights are over in my neck of the woods, but spring migration brings plenty to look at, even at night: Birdcast went live March 1 for the spring migration season. As noted in a fall post, it uses radar to track what is flying overhead at night and what kind of local fall out might occur in the morning. A good forecast, combined with full moon and clear skies, means scouts can birdwatch after sundown: Binoculars trained on the moon can see silhouettes of hundreds to thousands of songbirds migrating in night skies. https://birdcast.info/migration-tools/live-migrat
    3 points
  36. I will say for my company, DEI has gone well (overall). There are a few times where I think it went sideways, but overall we have greater pools of talent for hiring, our profits have increased substantial over the last few years and year end bonuses are the highest they have ever been. Personally, I have been happy with my career progression. When I hire, I have never been pressured to hire an under or unqualified candidate. If someone quits because they are against diversity, inclusion or equity... So be it. I haven't seen many people quit my company and definitely no one with t
    3 points
  37. To expand scouting beyond those who typically participated?
    3 points
  38. I think what @Mrjeffmay be hinting at is that if you disagree with some elements of a DE&I initiative and voice your concerns in a tactful manner, you still risk being labeled the "worst type of person imaginable." There is no room for discourse in some public spaces and I find that scary. As a moderate conservative myself, I share some of his concerns (and wouldn't mind engaging in productive discussion around the others). Ultimately, it probably behooves us all to be 10% kinder and 10% more understanding (and maybe to love one another ... where have I heard that before? 😉) Even
    3 points
  39. As often mentioned on this forum. Scouts Canada youth membership and professional employment has dramatically declined. Found this, see link below. Source: A lot of data in graphs, tables, links from Scouts Canada, but what I found missing was the Cost of Scouting per scout by year. http://yates.ca/sc/history/membership_national.htm
    3 points
  40. We as adult leaders should maintain the "neat and tidy" approach to our uniforms but should wear them in full. We have awards as youth, awards as adults, and awards from external parties (like the Community Service Award). Personal memory, and reflecting from my current scouts: Cub Scouts don't really care about what adults have on the adult uniform until closer to AOL. When they understand that what they are about to earn will be on their uniform even as adults they get kind of excited. Older Scouts care a lot about what adults have on their uniform. I remember seeing th
    3 points
  41. 12 scouts is still a good number to build off of though. After covid, I was down to 6 scouts but built it up to 51 over the next couple years. Took a lot of work, but with the help of some volunteers who showed up at the right time, we were able to thrive. If they are not being "active", you might be in for more work than you bargained for.
    3 points
  42. His uniform shirt & accoutrements must have weighed 50 pounds 😜
    3 points
  43. TBH the rule that you need a female leader around girls all the time sounds a little accusatory of men's character in general to me, despite the statistics. If the idea is that only a woman would protect girls from sexual abuse, what does that imply about all the other male leaders?
    3 points
  44. The unit is in District A, the location of your CO. The CO owns the unit, regardless of where it meets. The DE for District A supports. At recharter, same as above... DE for District A. No, no National policy... the only thing remotely covering is that the council has geographic boundaries... and CO's located in those boundaries are chartered within that council. The council gets to determine its own geographic or functional boundaries for its districts.
    2 points
  45. I found self-organizing was key. Not right away but just ahead of the next elections we had "patrol re-org night". SPL announced "You are all released from your patrols!" They were given 30 minutes to "congeal" into new patrols. It was interesting. We started with 5 Patrols, we ended with 5 Patrols. Noone specified max/min Patrol size nor number of patrols - we just let it happen. I was worried about this as we have 5 patrol kits... so as much as I love the Patrol Method - sometimes practical considerations do play a part. As it turned out, the politics and awkwardness involved wi
    2 points
  46. I think the choice for single-gender troops and patrols is the right approach. Barry
    2 points
  47. I go to camp to get away from music, cell phones, the internet, etc. Enjoy nature and solitude
    2 points
  48. 03.12.2024 U.S. Army Garrison Benelux Story by Sandra Wilson Participation in girl troops has increased on Benelux installations. Girls attend the weekly meetings and campouts, just as the boy troops, where they find camaraderie and build upon skills and leadership. Additionally, the standards and merit badges that the girls achieve mirror those of the boy troops. “Before we didn’t have the numbers to have our own girl troop so the youth that were involved had to meet with an online troop,” said Chris Stewart, scoutmaster of Troop 100 G in Brunssum. “I came in a year and a ha
    2 points
  49. Does there have to be a productive aim if the discussion is civil and managed within the Scout Law? Sometimes the best reaction to a discussion one doesn’t enjoy participating is to choose not to participate. Barry
    2 points
  50. Never let anyone auto renew. Ever. You lose control in that automatic charges will be incurred without notice, even if a scout has dropped out.
    2 points
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