Jump to content

Leaderboard

Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/08/21 in Posts

  1. Forums work well in many ways, but it is probably not the best way to discuss the difficult feelings of this bankruptcy while also discussing the impact to child sex abuse survivors. However, there are not a lot of avenues for this discussion so as long as it remains scoutlike it can continue. That said, I do ask everyone to be patient with each other and not necessarily jump on a single word or phrase as a line of attack. Again, if we were sitting in person, it would be easier to read tone or intent in messaging. Forums are a bit unartful to communicate emotion. I really don't b
    10 points
  2. The mental fallout from my abuse was mostly dormant prior to the current lawsuit. It would still torment me in idle moments. Or at night sometimes when I lay in bed trying not to blame myself after so many years for something I didn’t even understand at age 11. After I signed onto the lawsuit I began to scavenge info from the web, constantly looking for updates. It became almost an obsession. Thats how I found this forum. The dialog here calms me to a degree. Perhaps being among birds of a feather, both as a survivor and as a former Scout. Please don’t lock the thread. It’s a va
    9 points
  3. I would like to not lock the thread but we seem to be in a rut that we need to get out of before any progress can be made. Here are some observations that might help. First, human dignity is the cornerstone of the Bible. (yep, hang in there.) It is used to resolve conflicts. It is the goal of how to treat each other. The level of evil or sin is based on how much indignity one causes another. Shy of murder I can't think of anything more undignified then an adult chronically abusing a child. The main subject is child sexual abuse but we also heard about parental abuse yesterday. Next,
    8 points
  4. Not that my opinion is worth anything, but here’s the way I see it... A Scout is Loyal. We should be loyal to our brother Scouts who were abused under the auspices of the BSA. They deserve some measure of restitution for what they suffered. We should be loyal to the current Scouts who benefit from the program. This will require creative solutions and a different program in some ways, but it’s understandable that many don’t want to lose what they consider to be key pieces. Maybe they shouldn’t be expected to lose them to keep the program alive. We should be loyal to
    6 points
  5. I would agree with the other moderators that we need everyone's help to: (1) Be respectful of each other and to value diverse opinions. This is one topic that not all of us will share the same perspective. And that is the value of this forum. (2) Take a moment to reread what you have just written and make sure that it says what you intend it to say (and refer back to point one) (3) Try to avoid reposting the same point over and over again. After a while it really detracts from the forum. A lot of us are emotionally very invested in the Scouting program and wish for the be
    6 points
  6. When have I belittled you and diminished what you went through? While I may not have had to deal with the trauma you had, I have dealt with this issue, and yes I have had some mental/emotional issues. Two friends were abused by the SM of the first troop I was in. At the time something didn't seem right, now I know what it was, grooming. I left before anything could happen, but my friends were his next targets. I understand why you didn't report it, because I didn't either. But when I found out what happened after I left, I wish did. I had to report one of the other adults in a uni
    5 points
  7. This is the periodic reminder that “millennial” means born between 1980 and 1995, not just younger people you don’t like. “Boomer” doesn’t just mean conservative... I know a lot of Gen-Xers who think they are Boomers. I’m a millennial, an Eagle Scout, a veteran, and a girl dad. I work 50 to 60 hours a week to support my family, serve in my church, and am a military reservist. I get home after 7 most nights and log back in to my day job or reserve work after dinner. My wife works part time from home, does a ton of volunteer work, and keeps our world from being total chaos. This is wha
    5 points
  8. It isn't the TCC's job to revise the BSA's YPT program, it's the BSA's. The fact that the BSA has offered NOTHING to this point while acknowledging and apologizing for past abuse speaks volumes. Safe to assume this is the TCC's way of saying "DO SOMETHING." That said, the TCC has also stated that the monetary issues are foremost for now and until they are resolved other issues won't be used as bargaining chips needlessly. Only then will YPT and IV Files come to the forefront.
    4 points
  9. An Adversary Proceeding is Different From the Main Bankruptcy Case - The main bankruptcy case involves a debtor and the creditors of that debtor, and the main bankruptcy case has its own separate electronic docket and case number. An "Adversary Proceeding" in bankruptcy court has the same meaning as a lawsuit in other courts. This means that one or more "plaintiff(s)" file a "complaint" against one or more "defendant(s)." In many situations an adversary proceeding is required if a plaintiff wants to obtain a particular type of relief. Consult Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure Rule 7001 to
    4 points
  10. @MattR - I saw your post and read several of the surrounding comments. I suspect that it is impossible to sperate people's feelings of the lawsuit, the BSA, and child abuse. Even if this topic was simply numbers and motions, those discussions would still be centered around whether the BSA was paying enough or not. This is simply too charged a topic for dispassionate analysis. No matter what we do, people will come back to those core issues around the lawsuit. I think we have to recognize that fact and do our best to be tolerant of each other here. Generally this forum does a good
    4 points
  11. Agreed this is the only place to find out what is going on without reading thousands of pages of court documents.
    4 points
  12. I’ve scoured the Internet for information. This forum is it. Where else would/should one discuss it?
    4 points
  13. That's not a forum, just a cork board in the cyber hallway. It's also the easy way out of this conversation. The anger isn't being bred by this interaction with me or by the bankruptcy itself, but coaxed out into the open. It's already there. I did not arrive at this forum angry with you or Scouting, per se. I have become angry at what appears to be gross insensitivity in the use of language and comparisons, as well as blame cast where none should be cast. Thanks, again, to SilverPalm for eloquently "defending" what are in many instances the "defenseless." I tremendously appreciate his sa
    4 points
  14. Okay everyone. Let's all step back for a bit. I can lock the thread and force it but I'd rather not.
    4 points
  15. Hell maybe an exaggeration and a bad choice if words. It is not at all comparable, so they shouldn’t be compared. They are not the same type of loss. Many volunteers have made this their life’s work. It is not kind to try to diminish the sacrifices they made in money and time, and opportunity costs. Time not spent with spouses etc trying to support and build up an organization that is now being destroyed. These people spent months of vacation time over the years and years worth of weekends. To claim they are not entitled to their frustrations and anger and emotion of the loss is to
    4 points
  16. "Family scouting" is NOT Scouting. I have experienced this scenario with a 'family friendly" troop. There will be parents who refuse to let their Scouts grow, they will interfere and they will ignore anyone inside, and especially outside, of the groups. This is a sore subject with me as 'family scouting" was affecting my two older sons and was ruining their experience, and almost destroyed the troop they left. And upon reflection I do not think the troop fully recovered. And what really saddens me is that for all the new folks joining BSA who have no idea what Scouting truly is, this "fa
    4 points
  17. Just a reminder...in an hour: NOTICE OF VIRTUAL TOWN HALL MEETINGS HOSTED BY THE OFFICIAL COMMITTEE OF BOY SCOUT ABUSE SURVIVORS The next TCC Town Hall will be held on Thursday, May 13, 2021, at 5pm PDT/8pm EDT. Zoom link: https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/87088314462
    3 points
  18. If we can return to the Century whistleblower for a moment: Wouldn't it be reasonable to pare down these supposed false claims now? While the point was raised earlier that that wouldn't end up changing the lump sum of the settlement, it would impact the amount of award to each survivor. The numerator doesn't change, but if the denominator gets smaller, you're left with a bigger award per survivor. Isn't it in the best interests of both sides to weed out these allegedly false claims as soon as possible?
    3 points
  19. I want to come back around to something in the latest Century objection that I think @Eagle1993hit on but really needs to be explored, namely the $1500 "nuisance" payouts. Again, because in the end bankruptcy = math, let's use math for a second. 84,000 claimants, you need 56,000 "yes" votes from claimants in order to get an approved settlement BUT that also means it only takes 28,001 to vote "no" and the plan is scuttled. Now, let's posit that the claims come in 4 types Honest, but not valid. Yes the claimant was really abused, but the claim's not valid because the statute
    3 points
  20. The TCC in the meeting last week with the Local Councils (outside of mediation confidentiality) discussed at length how the financial analysis of every Council was individual and intended to allow the Council's credit rating to remain at investment grade AFTER each contributes to the settlement. As the example in the objection shows, this was a VERY deep dive into each Council. There was no baseline for contributions across all Councils. It was independent and done to demonstrate what Councils were able to afford given their significant claim exposure.
    3 points
  21. I MOVED A BUNCH OF POSTS from the ch 11 thread to here, as it really has gone off from legalese (although important to the ch 11 thread). So, some of these posts you may have seen. Look for the time stamp of 5/9/2021 at 4pm Eastern. I've been on about 15 high adventure trips and none have been at a high adventure base. For a while we were doing 2 a year. We need a local camp more than a high adventure base. A 3 hour vs 1 hour drive for a weekend campout will have a much bigger negative impact on our program than anything related to HA bases. Rather than summit, which is 15
    3 points
  22. There are comments about STEM, women, school, etc. that are missing something. Scouts would enjoy a program raising chickens in their back yard if they actually got to make a chicken coop and raised the chickens rather than talked about the different types of chickens, safety requirements for raising chickens and presented a report to their patrol about different types of chicken coops. It's not what they work on, it's that they do something. The real challenge to this program is coming up with all of these ideas that have scouts doing something every single week that builds into eit
    3 points
  23. Don't forget that Millennials are (still) the largest generation to enter the workforce. Some of us only did that a handful of years ago. I've been married for a few years now, and my wife and I are just expecting our firstborn this fall. I joined this forum in large part because I now wish to re-involve myself in Scouts to help pave the way for my kid(s) to enjoy the program. I was a young Eagle, and I aged out in 2009. I've been gone 12 years, and I'm coming back now - and I'm one of the first of my friends to have a kid on the way. Don't count Millennials out yet. I'm t
    3 points
  24. CynicalScouter, Though we do not always see situations in the same light, I do appreciate your posts. You keep us informed about important happenings while not bogging us down with the myriads of documents that are a necessary part of the court proceedings but no very germane to our understanding of the those proceedings. So my thanks. I would comment that Cynical in your name would seem to be a gross understatement. Please continue to post.
    3 points
  25. Even if YPT was objectively the finest youth protection program offered anywhere in the world, that doesn't mean it can't be better. There are no downsides to working to improve YPT. None. But if one kid gets spared because one more adult leader recognizes a bad situation developing and does something to stop it as a result of the improved training, then it would have been worth it. I'm surprised BSA doesn't see this. Even if we surrender the contention that their program is the best in the world bar none end of story... that doesn't mean it can't be better. This is a really ea
    2 points
  26. Which begs the question on the minds of every victim, if an organization was developed today that essentially said "we're doing the best we can but some of you will be raped and abused and scarred for life" would we allow it? Would Congress give it a "charter?" Would we not as a society say "That isn't good enough." This isn't a call to abolish the BSA. Rather, it's a call to do ALL it can for victims NOW and ALL it can to abolish ALL abuse moving forward. If the best guidance available isn't working, and there is evidence that it isn't, then new guidance and EVERY effort, expert, and stu
    2 points
  27. 1. WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2. I am going to respond section by section to your OP. Several troops I have been in over the years have limited the involvement of TRAINED CUB SCOUT LEADERS until they they become TRAINED BOY SCOUT/SCOUTS BSA SCOUTERS (caps for emphasis). And the full training can take that long to complete and be fully absorbed. I can tell you that it is not to retain control, rather it is for the new adults to be understand and see the Scouts BSA program and how it truly works. If you look at my posts from about 2017 to 2018, you can read about what enthusiastic
    2 points
  28. Plan approval? Respect the wishes of the victims? Improved public goodwill? Basic smart PR move? Oh, yeah. What about greater youth protection?
    2 points
  29. I think you misunderstood what MYCVAStory meant. BSA has “done nothing,” as in produced not even a sentence of revision or commentary about how YPT will be improved in response to the TCC’s non-monetary demand to upgrade the program. “Done nothing” within the context of the bankruptcy negotiations, mediation, conversations, Plan documents and etc. I believe that is what he meant. The town hall statement is another invitation, less gentle, to tell the BSA to get off the dime on this and put forth some detailed commitments.
    2 points
  30. This is not to argue whether the BSA has done enough to protect children but to give a comparison to standards that society is seemingly accepting at this time (likely from ignorance). For the 84,000 claimants and the estimated 130 M alumni of Scouting the rate of abuse would be 0.07%. As I have noted before, that calculation is fraught with problems. Depending on your view, 84,000 could be too large or too small and, likewise, the BSA estimate of 130 M alumni is likely too generous. It is the best that we have at this time. Looking to the US schools in a paper entitled: "Sexual Abuse
    2 points
  31. We know the insurers only want this so they have to pay less. That's a given. Once they start, how far does it go and by what standards of validity and review? It's supposed to be a somewhat facial review and not the type of deep dive vetting the Trustee will later due, which will be more thorough and substantive. It's the old "slippery slope" problem. Yes, the benefit could be mutual to the parties. Could. As a claimant, the thought of being diluted by fraud is painful. On one had, I don't want valid claims kicked for unsound reasons, caught up in a crusade to "purge the villains." On the oth
    2 points
  32. I've had a company, well two, get consumed. One by a true insider snake in the recording and publishing industry, the other the bankruptcy sale I mentioned. The sell-off in bankruptcy was precipitated by a $20M breach of contract award that was later overturned too late for a rescue. Security tied to intellectual property assets, which is a complicated story. Anyway, we owners would never have considered hiding a financial advantage out of embarrassment over unwise decisions or poor financial management. That is, unless there was a legal or IRS problem lurking in the shadows. It's crazy to me,
    2 points
  33. You keep saying this but, having worked for one of JPM’s competitors in the real estate debt asset management space, I just find it incredibly hard to believe there was massive fraud. You’re alleging front page of the Wall Street Journal for weeks, huge fines, people are going to prison fraud. JPM’s legal and compliance departments would have seen it. Outside counsel would have seen it. Their third party asset manager would have seen it. Is BSA upstream from Arrow WV and have equity to lose from a forced sale? Maybe. Does JPM have a priority lien? Maybe. Did JPM make a
    2 points
  34. This is a very interesting document. The insurance company makes a pretty interesting claim in here. Essentially, BSA is attempting to use the $1,500 payout to get the large number of people with false claims to vote for their bad plan. Essentially, no person with a valid claim would approve BSA's proposal ... so they want to keep the fake claims in the pool as those people would likely jump at the chance to take $1,500 and approve their plan. This could be the reason why BSA hasn't pushed back at the claims. Also, it appears there is some questionable tactics. I have heard the info
    2 points
  35. Here's the thing: she cannot do that sua sponte. As near as I can see, there has never been briefing on the question of what the exact legal status of LC assets are (do they really belong to national? Are they directly subject to the bankruptcy as a result?) If she is going to rule on that, she'll want and indeed need briefs and oral argument. Since the CO/LC question is not on the May 19 agenda, that means the earliest it could be is June but more likely July for oral argument on the CO/LC question.
    2 points
  36. If BSA is being 100% truthful with you, me and claimants that they want to exit bankruptcy as quickly as possible this is not true. If we are to believe BSA that they will liquidate in September if they are still in bankruptcy, this is not true. Now, if those are simply bluffs and BSA can survive for 2-3 more years while going through bankruptcy, I agree. I think if BSA wants to keep their HA bases and continues to play the delay game, we are looking at years of bankruptcy trials. The only way BSA gets out quickly is surrendering the bases (or immediately proving they a
    2 points
  37. If mine is a worthy voice, I would be happy to contribute my thoughts and suggestions on a separate thread. From the jump, and a couple of these are things I've previously posted and few have proven successful as I've begged for a "back off," I would start with: 1) Request a reduction or elimination of all caps and/or repeated bold font statements when the post is emotionally charged (or maybe always?). I have fallen into part of that and could've adequately made my point(s) with underline or italics. This is a visual medium and what we see, not only read, has a HUGE impact. (Did that on
    2 points
  38. One of the valuable things about this thread, in addition to the excellent legal information and analysis, has been the perspectives from people who have actually been abused. I can go to any scouting venue, forum or friend, and hear hundreds of opinions from people who know a lot about scouting but a lot less about child abuse, which is the single biggest crisis ever to face scouting. This is the only place that I know of where a handful of people have been willing to give firsthand accounts of some of the incidents that have all but destroyed something that we love. They've given their opini
    2 points
  39. I will challenge the notion that the mild discomfort of some is the same or equivalent "hell" (word used) as a child sexually assaulted. I will dare anyone with even a modicum of humanity to challenge that premise. This bankruptcy is about scout leaders turning a blind eye, focusing MORE on protecting their precious BSA and its reputation than actually doing something. And thanks to the release of the IV files we can see it: BSA leaders from National all the way down, IN WRITING, attempting to coverup or cover over THOUSANDS of instances of the sexual abuse of children. So you a
    2 points
  40. When a poster threatens, DARES, or intimidate the list to agree with their opinion, then something has to change. Barry
    2 points
  41. Or, last I checked, absolutely no one was compelling you to pay any attention to these threads or post to them. In the extreme should you find what I am posting utterly abhorrent, there's a handy dandy "Ignore User" button. In the absence of ANY information from BSA, the LCs, or the COs (who for good, clear, and obvious reasons are not about to talk to the press about pending litigation) this remains the only forum out there, literally, for anyone to get any information about what is going on in the bankruptcy. It's the moderator(s) pond, and I'm a guest swimming in it, but I st
    2 points
  42. It's also hell for those of use who are boots on the ground who have given years of our lives to the organization and have done our utmost to make it better.
    2 points
  43. I like the idea of a patrol focus to teach that skill. Give patrols a bunch of options rather than a camporee style program. It could be advancement, skills, or just fun with boats, shooting, hiking or whatever else the camp supports. But the same thing should be done for the adults. They need something to do to keep them from annoying scouts. That might solve @Eagle94-A1's concerns. Training for patrol method. Put them in their own patrols for doing some fun/skills. Maybe roundtables and all the commissioner stuff could be done as well? And get troop committee meetings out of the way as
    2 points
  44. I first clicked on the link from Kosnoff's twitter feed and it worked without payment required but now it is paywalled. I find incognito mode on the browser sometimes allows access to some articles.
    2 points
  45. I have a hunch the TCC's objection will focus upon the issues of greatest import to the court. Perhaps the TCC will address the BSA's contention that the pension plan needs funding or the PBGC will step in? What about on the other hand if the pension fund is actually in good shape or even over-funded? Also, the formal mediation in New York was last week and not this week.
    2 points
  46. It is not released. The actual formula takes into account membership and financial situation. A very large and financially healthy council is a 100 whereas a small and/or financially challenged council is a 500. Councils who are of average size and financially fine but not outstanding are 300. This is the first time I recall seeing the list publicly.
    2 points
  47. Source: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Restructure-of-Councils-by-Territory.pdf We already saw 1 Class 500 merger. Who is next? 64 Class 500 83 Class 400 56 Class 300 33 Class 200 16 Class 100
    2 points
  48. Congratulations on your future cub and thanks for reminding us grumpy old people that great young people are always out there.
    2 points
  49. Millennials are age 25-40 currently and have had a hard time starting families due to cost of living and the 08 recession. I'm 27 and the youngest of my cousins. All of my cousins are older than I am, in a range of 28-34. None has a child over the age of 4 currently. I think of my extended family as a fairly average Americans as far as income, occupation and educational attainment is concerned. Granted, we're all in the younger half of the Millennial generation. My point, is if we see Millennial parents in Scouting, the parents and kids would most likely only be involved in Cub Scouts at
    2 points
×
×
  • Create New...