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  1. 8 points
    @John-in-KC there was a reduction in the National Council Staff by 110 positions yesterday. These are trying times, I have no desire nor inclination to join the debate or speculation here. Good people, who care about our country, our youth and the program of the BSA are no longer employed. Keep them and Scouting in your thoughts and prayers. RichardB
  2. 6 points
    First, we had a fantastic time. Really, it couldn't have been better. Second, I'll post the route we did later. I intentionally let the scouts and interpreter deal with that. We left Springfield, VA, flew from Reagan National Airport direct to MSP. We rented a 15 passenger van for our crew of 8 and gear and drove 4 hours to Virginia, MN. Not sure why we did that to just end up in Virginia again. Virginia is the closest town with national hotel chains. We stayed at the AmericInn with a great view of the railroad tracks. Well, my room did. Get the front of the hotel to be away from that noise. The hotel was fine for our needs. Next morning we drove to NT. We got lunch at a gourmet grilled cheese place in Ely called Gator's Grilled Cheese Emporium. I got a grilled cheese sandwich and the lobster mac and cheese. Great stuff! Staff checked out temps when we arrived. MN made masks mandatory and we wore them any time we were not at our cabin. Unfortunately, not all scouts and scouters complied. It should have been clear you wear a mask or you leave. Our crew was assigned our own shower/bathroom at the bathhouse (2 on our return). Our interpreter is a Navy Academy midshipman and was fantastic. It helped that our crew was really good, too. He showed them what to do the first day and really we just fished or relaxed while the scouts made/cleaned dinner. Scouts had plenty of time to do their own swimming and having fun. Some random thoughts/advice. 1. White gas stoves are ancient technology compared to canister stoves. I took a tiny backpacking canister stove for our coffee (they have a percolator in the equipment if you don't). 2. I took a Warbonnet Eldorado hammock and Warbonnet tarp. It was my first time camping with a hammock. It was OK. I was glad to have my own place to sleep. I hate sharing a tent. The interpreter had a hammock, too, but no underquilt. He was cold at night. If your whole crew brings hammocks you'd struggle to find workable trees for all at most of the campsites we used. 3. The walk from the parking lot to your cabin is rather long. Not sure why they set things up like that. 4. White gas stoves are like carburetors and canister stoves are electronic fuel injection. No tune ups and quick to start. 5. While they provide 1 drink mix packet per day, take some extra. The Polar Pure iodine water treatment tastes bad. 6. Better yet, take a Katadyn BeFree or Sawyer Squeeze filter and skip the Polar Pure. Don't take those big, bulky, heavy pump filters. 7. You can't spill canister fuel. 8. I went in wanting to minimize portages thinking those would be killer. Well, they are. What's worse is no portages. The reason is when you portage you rest the rowing muscles and instead kill your shoulders and legs on the portages. On the big lakes with a long time before a portage, your rowing muscles turn to rubber. So you need the portages. 9. The portage where we stood in a waterfall was awesome! 10. The food is better than Philmont, although the desserts often were pudding, even when not intentionally pudding. The food is crazy heavy, too. 11. I loved Philmont, but this was better. Philmont felt like there was too little down time. At NT, we arrived at the campsite between 2-4 and just had to set up and eat. We all loved this. We swam, fished, chilled. It was really nice. Plan your route so you arrive at a campsite around this time. You'll enjoy your time more. 12. People who prefer canister stoves are scientifically proven to be better looking than those who prefer white gas. I saw it on the internet somewhere. 13. A beaver dam blocked our way and made for a less than joyful portage. 14. Pack light. 15. We had rain the first hour on water and never again. I never used my rain jacket. Leave the rain pants at home. 16. White gas stoves are like a Soviet Lada and canister stoves are like a Mercedes-AMG GT. 17. First 2 nights, bugs were not really an issue. Last 2 nights, they feasted for about 1.5 hours. No real issues during the day. 18. One of our 2 NT white gas stoves stopped working and couldn't be repaired. There's nothing to maintain on a canister stove. We used remote canister stoves at Philmont. 19. Take your own PFD with pockets if you want a GoPro or fishing gear easily accessible. Getting into the grey whale while on the water is annoying. 20. Altama OTB Maritime Assault boots work very well. 21. Get the Kevlar boats. Portaging with something heavier would not be joyful. 22. Get a backless seat pad that straps on to the canoe seat. 23. Take Tears of the Sun hot sauce. It's Trans-Siberian Orchestra guitarist Chris Caffery's recipe. 24. Several of us think we had weird dreams because of the Polar Pure iodine. This might be true. 25. We were all very fortunate to be able to go.
  3. 6 points
    The year 2020 will go down in history as having been devastating for a number of reasons. To those who lost their jobs, I wish them well. My own Scout sons, now grown with young children (9, 5 and 5) of their own are wondering every day if the axe will fall and if my Grandkids will ever have a "normal" school career. One works in the restaurant industry and the other for a city Police Dept. I wonder when the COVID axe will fall on my high risk body, which I feel is inevitable in spite of best efforts to avoid it. Nobody deserves this, any of it. God bless us, everyone.
  4. 5 points
    You miss the point (sorry....)
  5. 5 points
    So, when my daughter signed on as a Wolf Cub in early 2018, I didn’t get the memo that the blue uniform was no longer considered a Webelos uniform. She wore her blue uniform all summer after finishing Bear Scout rank, and when I found out that tan was now “required” I decided that I’d start working on putting her tan uniform together - but I didn’t hurry. Her blue one still fit and her tan was still a bit baggy on her. I finally switched her sometime that Fall. There are kids in her Pack that are still wearing blue uniforms as Webelos and it doesn’t bother me a bit. Most of this discussion has been about the relevance of uniforms in general and not about blue vs tan. As far as I’m concerned, as long as either one is worn appropriately I don’t think it’s worth worrying about. My youngest just signed up for Lion Scouts. I couldn’t find a 2nd hand Lion t-shirt locally, and getting one on eBay and paying shipping one might as well buy new. So when COVID first hit, I was prepared to go get her a Lion t-shirt when the Scout Office re-opened, but the longer it dragged on and as we face a drastically different vision of den meetings this year, I decided I didn’t want to spend the money for a one-year t-shirt for my last child to maybe wear for Zoom meetings. It’s only $10, but for $8 I was able to get a great used blue uniform shirt that she’ll be able to wear for 2-3 years. Since she won’t be at any in-person meetings, and the old yellow Wolf scarf looks like a Lion scarf from the front, she got a hand-me-down scarf. I was able to pick up a school uniform Skort for under $5. I figure since Lions don’t require any particular bottom wear, this part is entirely within the rules and I’ll get her official uniform bottoms when she’s a little bigger and can wear a size I can more easily find on eBay (she’s tiny, and barely can wear a 4T). Her belt buckle has a Webelos symbol on it, but that’s temporary until her sister crosses over in around December or January and can pass her newer style buckle down (I know they can trade, but my older girl wears it more so having her use the newer and easier to use belt buckle took priority). I noticed during the last year that about half of our Lions wore the t-shirt and half wore the blue uniform. A Scout is Thrifty. I’m definitely “Team Uniform” but I also place an extremely high value on the Scout Law. So I say, have the kids wear the uniforms they’ve got with pride while you see if you can start gathering up some hand-me-down tans for them. There is no sense in stressing the families out about colors.
  6. 5 points
    Well done SpaceX, NASA, and astronauts Robert Bahnken and Douglas Hurley. Scout Salute and thanks for good news, smart news. (NASA photo)
  7. 5 points
    Sunset and then sunrise view from my hammock.
  8. 5 points
    Ditto. What if all the units just said NO? Let the SE chew on that for awhile...
  9. 4 points
    ...Adrian’s kits are full of materials that are described as anxiety and autism comfort items, and as a part of his eagle badge requirements, Adrian supplied the kit to the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department to use as a tool when they are responding to calls that involve autistic people or people in extreme anxiety. The kit contains headphones, sensory balls, fidget spinners, pipe cleaners, stretchy men and flavored tongue depressors, which are Adrian’s favorite. These kits are now carried by 42 medic units in Fairfax County, and when they are working with an individual with autism or calls involving mental health crises, the kit might be just the thing they need to help induce calm while the rescue workers tend to the task at hand. More details of this great Scout story at sources: https://ffxfirerescue.wordpress.com/2020/08/07/local-scout-creates-anxiety-and-autism-care-kits-for-fcfrd-medic-units/ http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2020/aug/13/emergencies-autistic-people-now-have-adrians-resou/ Outstanding, Scout Salute
  10. 4 points
    As others have noted, not sure the group (NEC Team) really understands how things work now. They seem to think that making some adjustments or tweaks will make everything better. The NEC should have presented a plan on how to FOCUS the Scouting program and movement on our strengths and market differentiation (outdoor program, youth led, self reliance, problem solving, personal growth) and how to leverage that to grow the program. Hint - it's not STEM, safety, popcorn, and professional staff Lastly, this is great - since financial challenges prevent us from being able to meet demands with professional staff alone. Honestly not sure what the Fields Execs and multiple layers of operations management actually do to support the local units. The admins at the council office do more than anyone.
  11. 4 points
    Moderator note, let's keep on topic Summit Summer Camp experience - activities, cold showers , costs, gear, medical checks, camp setup, check-in, safety,... Thanks P.S. oh and food. @John-in-KC @MattR
  12. 4 points
    First, the accusation of fiscal mismanagement predate the current AG. Recall the Ollie North debacle and what happened with NRA-TV. No different that Teddy Roosevelt campaigning against trusts and then once elected proceeding to use the Sherman Antitrust Act to hit them over the head and bust them up. Second, it is not any old "private organization"; it is registered as a 501(c)(3) not for profit. It must spend its money accordingly. Third, the end result would be that all donors get their money back and the officers of the NRA who misappropriated themselves funds would be forced to disgorge. I fail to see the problem with that. Those donors want to fund some successor organization to the NRA or fund something like Gun Owners of America, they get to. Finally, the point for Scouting (remember Scouting?) is that it is going to mean adjusting several items regarding merit badges, shooting events, and other related items in the Scouting program. Not sure how that will shake out.
  13. 4 points
    So just when I thought everything would be closed for the entire summer, I am told that a local troop is doing a sort of mini summercamp on some private land and asked if they could by any chance have a callout for the 4-5 scouts who were elected way back in the pre Covid days. The team was quite eager to do something anything this summer, ao right now the older members of the team are reworking the ceremony to keep everyone at the required distance. It will be different and perhaps not as impressive as we are used to but it's something.
  14. 4 points
    Easier implemented in some activities... (BSA Troop 565 Roound Rock, TX) Seabase 2020
  15. 4 points
    It's the old adage...Do we raise money to enable a community to have Scouts OR Do we have Scouts to enable a group to be able to raise money. Agree that way too many volunteers feel the "Council" is the end all be all, the oracle or knowledge, the giver of permissions, the experts on Scouting. Actually the Council is supposed to support the unit and LOCAL Scouting. Sadly it does not work that way and many of us wonder what in fact the cast of many at the Council office actually do all day. How in fact do they (The Council and the minions there) bring value to the BSA program in our community day in and day out?
  16. 4 points
    In my professional opinion as a former lifeguard instructor and swimming instructor, I think they should be EXTREMELY RARE (emphasis). I taught swimming to physically and mentally handicapped kids. It may be more difficult. they may not make "First Class, First Year," but I have seen kids and adults with these handicaps do it. Anytime we try to "shortcut" advancement, we are not helping the Scouts.
  17. 4 points
  18. 4 points
    Of course there is also the far more likely and sensible probability - that this "next generation" and its parents actually don't mind the terms Scout- or Cubmaster, and in fact are perfectly happy keeping them, and wouldn't even think twice about the matter unless it was pushed on them by overly politicizing factions who only want to look for trouble where there is none to be had. I feel comfortable saying this since, according to you, I fall into the category of the "real" decision makers - and I never, in all my functions at the unit, district and council level, have ever even heard of the terms being questionable, apart from this one isolated thread, in this one isolated forum. And I live in a densely populated, media-heavy, influential and involved part of the country. So I think the term is safe for now. ☺️
  19. 4 points
    Welcome, let me put the answers in order for you 1) DO NOTHING ON YOUR OWN. Involve the CC and the COR. This impacts your chartered partner. 2) Request your chartered partner consult their attorney. There is a matter of who has what parental and guardianship rights. 3) outside of the CC and COR, do not say a word of this to anyone. You slander/libel any of the adults involved, they can own the chartered partner and you Do only what the CC and COR together tell you to do Finally, instruct the grandparents to do all further communication with the CC and COR Good luck.
  20. 4 points
    As others stated, talk to the CC and COR or the Charter Org's legal rep ASAP! One troop I was in had that issue, and we could not remove the parent until we had a court order. Once we got the court order, parent was removed from all unit communications. When parent showed up, they were advised that they needed to leave, or they would be arrested for trespassing (ASM is law enforcement).
  21. 4 points
    I should have added something, but I thought it was so obvious it didn't need mentioning. If you are a committee member, tell the committee chairman. Don't do anything on your own. The CC should be the one to contact the COR.
  22. 4 points
    So our Council Camps as many, did not open. We attend 2 camps each summer, the out of council did not open. Also our Philmont crew was cancelled. As I have noted, we took the go it alone, run your own camp route. We are currently in camp (6 days and 5 nights) taking over the Pioneer area of a State Park maybe 45 minutes from us. We have 24 Scouts, maybe 10 leaders. We are offering some aquatics, mt biking, full slate of merit badges (21 different ones and small classes), new scout program. In addition to the leaders we have some Eagle Scouts that have turned 18 assisting. Also some of our alumni that worked at the local Council Camp have joined us for a few days. Each Scout was dropped off by parents. They will be picked up same, no carpooling. Each Scout has their own tent. Meals are being delivered by parents on a schedule that would make the Normandy Invasion planning group proud. Nightly activities, full flag ceremonies each day. It is basically a very small summer camp. The State Park has been very helpful and all the parents have been most supportive. It is a ton of work, but this will be the best Troop Run Summer Camp we have ever been to. (the Scouts made that statement when they realized it's the only one we've had). Special camp t-shirts, water bottle sticker, bottles of hand sanitizer spray, gloves for meal serving, 20 cases of bottled water so far (no communal drink coolers) and many other unique things. Scouting at it's most basic.
  23. 4 points
    I'm always skeptical of anything I don't see in writing, so I'd start there. Was anything put in writing announcing this? Second, no one in the world knows what the council or national structure will look like in December 2021, so again I'm deeply skeptical. I believe that we are part of the council and therefore have a responsibility to put forth reasonable efforts to support the organization, but reasonable is just that, reasonable. Make the pitch for FOS, or allow council to make its pitch for FOS and let your families decide how much if anything they can contribute. If you want to allow your scouts to sell things like popcorn or camp cards to help fund raise for themselves or the troop so be it; if your scouts choose not to do that it's perfectly acceptable, fundraising for the council is NOT the responsibility of the youth.
  24. 4 points
    It sounds more like extortion to me. I wouldn't pay it.
  25. 4 points
    Here is how I see it regarding pros. Disclosure, I was a DE and worked for National Supply. There are a lot of good, honest professionals who wants what is best for the youth. I was one, some of my workers were as well. And I have had some good DEs I've worked with over the years. But there are also a lot of pros who do not live up to the Oath and Law. They will lie, steal, and do whatever it takes to get ahead. The good ones tend to not stick around long.They get burned out, frustrated, or harassed into leaving. Because they have to work twice and thrice as hard as the unscrupulous pros, they get burnt out much faster or get so frustrated with their situation that they leave. Why work so hard and not get truly recognized for the hard work. Worse is being harassed to leave. When I was a DE, my DFS and SE were both willing to do anything to not only meet goals, but be #1 in their division. When they realized I would not play their games, they harassed me into quitting. Cancelling training 4 days before leaving, rearranging my my week of summer camp until after I was married, causing me to cut short my honeymoon for a "mandatory meeting" in which only 1 other DE was at because he was at camp, having me drive 2 hours round trip for a "meeting" which lasted all of 1 minute because I was picking up a video for them to return, etc. They few good pros that advance tend to get sidelined to smaller councils. Their performance does not compare to those taking all the shortcuts.
  26. 3 points
    Reading the text of the three priorities, it is clear that National retains the delusion that all Scouting flows from the professionals: "Recommendations that help engage and empower more volunteers to deliver and support Scouting locally will move forward, which will be vital to our Movement’s sustainability since financial challenges prevent us from being able to meet demands with professional staff alone." And: "[C]ouncils can focus on bringing Scouting to youth, families and communities with the support of local volunteers." (Emphasis added.) Scouting exists only because individual adult volunteers -- NOT professionals -- form and operate packs, troops, crews, and ships. Those unit volunteers are the ones who recruit youth and families. Those youth and families join those units because they like what those unit volunteers have made possible. And those youth and families stay in Scouting because they like what the unit is giving them under the guidance and approval of those unit volunteers. Those unit volunteers aren't doing it to support the Movement or to support councils or to take the burden off professionals. Many, if not most of those unit volunteers who are building Scouting units, recruiting youth and other adults into Scouting, and guiding and delivering the Scouting program will have only the vaguest idea of what a council is and will have no meaningful encounter with a BSA professional. Scouting begins and ends with units and with the adult volunteers who make those units possible. And because National personnel (and council personnel) don't understand that, they fail.
  27. 3 points
    I am stunned and in awe of the Churchill project. Do nothing hard. Punt on the major decisions. The three priority items are ones that should have already been done as a part of regular business practices.
  28. 3 points
    Yeah, my uncles and aunts would throw their weight around as well. As individuals, even though they were fully dressed, it was not a great look, but ensemble ... truly beautiful. (Yes, even a conservative family who would never bare midriffs learned a few moves.) Love the Shriners! So, in town they had a clubhouse called the Syria Mosque. (Look it up sometime.) Classic 19th century brick, some of which was fired in relief with Arabic script around the eves. Folks always had a laugh explaining it to the devout looking for Friday prayers! They relocated and built a larger building, albeit with a less ornate exterior. But, they sold the old building by getting two divisions of the same company in a bidding war. I still imagine those guys in their go carts weaving down 5th Avenue all the way to the bank! The old building was demolished and turned into a parking lot. The decorative brick was sold and can be found in various private gardens. I never met an Arab who, learning about the Shriners, was offended by them using Arabic/Turkish history and culture to do good work.
  29. 3 points
    This issue will not go away. Though I don't see the harm and I could easily counter-argue from many directions, it's non-productive. Society has changed. Kids don't watch cowboy and Indian movies anymore. Whole generations are losing connections to our past. ... The key problem is protesters will always be using BSA to prove their point at BSA's expense. .... IMHO ... We can come up with our own ceremonies that are just meaningful without using Indian lore. ... Sadly, our scouts will lose out by being less aware of our countries Indian past, but so be it.
  30. 3 points
    Sorry, but I don't think any organization which funnels money to political candidates should qualify as a 501(c)(3) "charity"...that includes the NRA, PP, BSA, or whatever.
  31. 3 points
    I know of an event a few decades ago where National made the rule, Troop refused to follow, CO got involved and told the Troop "you will follow the BSA National rule". Troop said "you can't make us" CO said no more charter. If there's one thing I've learned from David CO, Charter Orgs are in charge. Scout of one of the families involved on the former CO side was then targeted by the former SM and friends of SM for when that scout went to the Eagle Board, of which they were involved and led. Eagle Chair didn't even bother looking at the scout's project etc. Said he was in no way ever going to become an Eagle as long as he had something to say about it. Scout walked out, parent who saw what happened called another nearby district and was told, "That won't fly." Council got involved and took over this scout's Eagle BOR. Scout showed a lot of character and tenacity throughout all of this. Scared out of his pants really, going to a council staffed BOR instead of a district. Many years later he found out how the council folks viewed in such high regards his attitude, character, and how he handled everything about the situation. So yah, there's a lot of jerks out there and they are so willing to destroy youth to make themselves feel better. And a lot of folks willing to turn their heads in those situation because it's this great guy they all know and love, so he can't be held accountable.
  32. 3 points
    That link reminds me that I come to this discussion from a different place than those who have only experienced the uniform method through scouting. When I was a kid, I participated in a youth sports related organization with military roots that performed formal uniform inspections of the candidate whether for advancement or competition. White glove, fingernail scratch, see your face in the shine type inspections.The formal inspection at heart was a safety inspection, but you were expected to present yourself with military precision. There was purpose to that because the sport was inherently dangerous and required attention to detail to manage risks and prevent injury. Almost every component of the uniform,and associated equipment, while looking neat, was a function of safety or minimizing risk. There was no marketing behind it because the organization did not sell the uniform it only set standards regarding function. As a result, the uniform was both functional and economical. I was not a rich kid but I was easily able to meet this standard. As an older youth member and then later as an adult, I became an advancement examiner and competition official. I conducted many of these inspections as part of my duty to assess whether youth were safe to advance to a higher level of training and competition. Because of the reasons outlined above I never had an issue with those uniform requirements because they made sense, were functional, and were never a barrier for youth. When I started with scouting, however, I saw uniforms used in a different way-- almost as a tool for punishment. I could not understand this. In the other organization, it made sense to me if youth were prevented from participating if they lacked an essential safety item. In scouts, it did not make sense to me if scouts were prevented from participating if they wore the wrong color shirt.. It had nothing to do with function. It also made no sense that uniform components had to be discarded, not because they were unsafe or worn out, but because they were the wrong ... color? The uniform in the early guidebooks makes the most sense to me because it is based on function and not marketing. All the language associated with uniforming in the early guidebooks is connected to function. In my opinion, if scouting survives bankruptcy, we need to revise this.
  33. 3 points
    1) The "experience and maturity" slam? A scout is courteous. 2) I have no problem with letting scouts run their program within their handbooks. The problem here is that you believe there was and/or is a uniform mandate or requirement in those handbooks. As I demonstrated, that is simply not true. Wasn't true in 1967 ("It is not absolutely necessary to wear a uniform to prove yourself a Scout.") Not true in today's 14th edition. Poverty is never to be a preventative to Scouting. Neither was the uniform.
  34. 3 points
    Smart? I can't think of anything I have said in any of my 2344 posts that might lead you to that conclusion. But I'll thank you anyway.
  35. 3 points
    After working in information technology for more than 25 years I can say I'm not surprised. I've seen the guards being lowered due to wide-spread budget concerns, lax management, and lack of oversight. I will be monitoring my information. Just because a corporation says not to worry doesn't mean you should let your guard down.
  36. 3 points
    Wow! Great thread. Great conversations... about a lousy topic. About 8 years ago I concluded that BSA wanted to make money selling camps. In those 8 years, our Council merged, and 5 properties were liquidated. I've made up a list of sneaky ways Councils sell properties, one of them is closing a camp for a year, or not listing it for a season, and then complaining that it lost money that year. I've met a regional stooge before. They make politicians look humane. This one didn't give a rat's arse about the kids or us volunteers. To be in that high of a tier of the BSA you need to be a full-blown fanatic and card carrying party member. Every Council is different, with their motives and issues. Our Council is a cult, but the one a few miles away is super nice to their families, but fell on hard times. I've found that real numbers, data, excel spreadsheets is the best way to look at Scouting. Numbers typically don't lie and will tell you whats what. But in failing areas, stooges in charge don't want the numbers shown because it makes them look bad. I'll echo what someone said earlier, and encourage readers to stay focused on keeping the youth engaged. Ignore the price-hike threats and let them come to you with their sob stories about losing money and the threat of selling camps. When they do come to your unit with a huge price hike, play dumb and let them explain it to you. Then I would ask the unit (parents) how they feel about it, and if they want to continue or not.
  37. 3 points
    I have conducted hundreds of swimmer tests in our council camp pool, which is 25 yards. 3 lengths using a strong stroke and the final length using a resting backstroke followed by floating motionless in the deep end. If the scout touches bottom or stops swimming, or touches the side when turning, he starts over.
  38. 3 points
    Yes. There is something wrong with it. It is true that some words become obsolete. They fade out of use on their own. People just stop using them. This is different from legislating a word out of existence. It is very different from having an angry mob harass a word out of existence. We are quite right to be indignant when the mob mentality takes over. We are right to be more than just annoyed when spineless bureaucrats cow tow to the braying jackasses who demand the right to redefine and restructure everything in our society from the meaning of simple words to the legitimacy of our most cherished ideals and values.
  39. 3 points
    I agree. This is how political correctness takes root and flourishes. I mean no disrespect to the previous commenting author. It’s true that terms come and go. Psychiatry has marvelous examples of this. For whatever bizarre reason, people or rather some individuals begin to decide that a term no longer is suitable. There is a PhD thesis somewhere waiting to be made on this linguistic phenomenon. Search and destroy gets changed to sweep and clear, soldier of fortune and mercenary get changed to contractor, problems get changed to challenges and opportunities, in Tampa, now the word ‘thug’ is alleged to be racist (though looking in the history of the word and synonyms I have yet to understand how that is possible)...the list goes on and absurdities have mounted. the only reason I can think of that scout master is somehow wrong, is that the term master has become the newest target. Master Blacksmith, master blade smith, etc all have the distinction of...mastery at ones craft. Master craftsman, journeyman apprentice. Master of ceremonies, master at arms, master sergeant, master chief, and as you know it goes on. How the word master has fallen afoul of a solid meaning and use is beyond me. I get that people project meaning into terms. Here, It could be master and slave, and couple that with sex abuse...well you get the idea. What I fail to understand is how certain people of groups hijack the English language and take it upon themselves to redefine what is acceptable or not. The very fact that people have to quibble over the title used successfully and without nefarious meaning for all this time demonstrates the human propensity to simply try to re-invent the wheel. Humans can and will take any word and make it sound ugly. The problem often isn’t the word, it’s the intent and manner of the user. We have numerous multiple meanings and uses of the same words and ideas for all sorts of situations, often in contradiction. People might say that words matter. They certainly can, but it’s how they are used. Why scoutmaster? Sounds to me like people took a look at scouting after all these controversies and saw an untouched paradise of ways to arbitrarily tell others what terms mean, should mean, or could mean. Heaven forbid that it is continually used as it is understood.
  40. 3 points
    It is interesting to me that this particular broad, yet detailed discussion is going on here right now, but that this same discussion has not as yet been offered by the BSA defense team. Further, should not this same argument, similar to what we have here, be published by some prominent public opinion sources? Of course, I have suggested similar things as far back as the first case in Oregon. I also remember there being concern then about the poor decision to force the release of the Ineligible Files to legal perusal, as we knew that it would lead to just what has occurred. Logic and any semblance of fairness went out the window a long while back in relation to this. In many ways, this is just another variant on the McMartin disaster, and a few other similar cases. Skewed and often barely connected accusations and lack of cooperation from many societal units responsible for the extended follow ups, plus the death of so many witnesses all lead to the perfect storm we now have. And it is basically our distorted legal system. We have noted many times now that this would not be happening in 90 percent or more of the larger world, not even what are considered the more progressive and fairest countries.
  41. 3 points
    Don't know. I don't speak Dutch.
  42. 3 points
    I'm not sure what the age of the tent has to do with it, but we have some old tents they could use, if that would help.
  43. 3 points
    No. The public has this right. What BSA did was an abomination.
  44. 3 points
    Is it being disenfranchised or is it an opposition to everything that is part of Western culture, which the BLM website actually states? I have colleagues from overseas whose diction over the phone is indistinguishable from anyone else who shares their nationality. You would only know their skin color if they were sitting in front of you face to face. In the United States, that is not the reality. Students come here from Africa where their only classroom is a dirt yard underneath a tree, and yet they are able to succeed in our educational and university system where native born students struggle. Here, we have spent trillions trying to improve educational outcomes and yet we still have failing school systems. BLM wants us to divert billions away from law enforcement to community services. Some of it makes sense. Police are ill equipped to deal with mental health issues, which is a growing crisis in our country. But the idea that more money will truly solve the issues that plague our disenfranchised communities is worthy of skepticism. I despise that this is constantly framed as a race issue. To me it is an American issue. We cannot continue to leave generations of young Americans behind and expect to be a functional and thriving country. I just do not think that BLM's strategies will solve anything other than further divide us.
  45. 3 points
    I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or serious here. I am also not sure how long ago you think the 80s were. My parents were both leaders when I was a Cub Scout in the early to mid 80s. They are both still living and I am not sure why they need the issues of the BSA passed on to them. I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout in the early to mid 80s and I am fairly certain I am still living. I am a leader now. I can't in any way see why the buck should be passed on to me based on my involvement in the organization.
  46. 3 points
    As camp counselors have asked my scouts for a note from their SM confirming that the did x,y, or z prerequisite, I have developed the following template: To whom it my concern, —— is a scout. A scout is trustworthy. Therefore, you may take ——‘s retelling of exploits pertinent to requirements for the badge that you are counseling as fact. My signature is most assuredly superfluous. Sincerly, qwazse
  47. 3 points
    Why should anyone who was a youth in prior to 1989 (Say 1981-87) have any liability at all! Why punish them with liability?
  48. 3 points
    . . . .or at least TRY to do . . .
  49. 3 points
    I'll third the motion to tell the council to pack sand. You've already proven you can hold a summer camp without the BSA, why do you need them?
  50. 2 points
    There are four books in my collection on Antarctic Scouting participation. Three relate to Paul Siple, and one to Richard Chappell. All are interesting and representative of Scouting involvement in some very advanced and challenging activities over the years. Others include the African safari told about in Three Scouts in Africa; another, included one of those African participants in Alaska, A Boy Scout in Grizzley Country; there is one about scouts working with rangers in a National park, another about a hike of some scouts on the Oregon trail to Independence Rock for its hundredth anniversary, and another about a group of Eagles that spent weeks hiking in the Highlands of Scotland interacting with the local Scouts and communities. A few others relate to Sea Scouting adventures in those earlier days, and there are small mentions here and there of lesser known and less dramatic Scouting adventure activities in other anthologies. But, the idea that this is no longer an option is wrong. the NESA world explorer program continues to nurture such things, but few are really aware of this. Take a look; https://nesa.org/for-eagle-scouts/scholarships/nesa-world-explorer/
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