Leaderboard

Thank you all for the input. We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.

All good responses so far. I apologize for not including this phrase in my prior reply as I feel it is very important; others have hinted at it in their responses. I believe that Scouting done well is evidence of the truth of this statement. Not eveything that counts is measureable, and not everything that is measureable counts. (paraphrase of a quote often attributed to Einstein)

My apologies for not understanding This is a challenging time for young people. Politics and cultural extremisms are driving everyone to pick a side with no gray area. Life was simple when I was a scout, it was a little more complicated when I was leader, but nothing like now. My high school teacher son is very frustrated. He had a student commit suicide a few months ago. One of three in the past few years. The problem from his perspective is social media. Kids today get all their identity from social media and that puts them in a very volatile place to find themselves. One day socia

This is a camp problem, not a you problem. Echoing similar advice: Don't leave it to chance. Address it with them before committing to camp and then hold them to it. If they can't commit to making it a comfortable experience (facilities and experience/emotionally) then find a better option if you can.

Adults are the worst enemy to patrol method. We apply our sensibilities and biases to a process that the youth see no issue with. Last campout we had 5 patrols. 1 patrol was two scouts. 1 patrol was four scouts. They had a great time, they cooked and enjoyed their meals and were happy to have only their own dishes to contend with. I subscribe completely the B-P's POV: "The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method." There is another tenant of B-P I fully subscribe to: "My ideal camp is where everyone is cheery and busy, whe

That would be three separate menus/shopping/cooking/cleanup in our unit, so three patrols. 3 olders is enough for a "patrol."

IMHO every issue should be reviewed to confirm that. I do not think we should take comfort by saying, to paraphrase, "We have the best YP...". I would rather hear We are constantly reviewing our YP procedures policies and procedures by examining incident reports with YP experts. Here is a link to our YP Committee reports on actions for those incidents, including legal actions, and legislation lobbying. My $0.02,

I've also seen Girl-only Camporees. That really gets to me. Imagine if we had Boy-only Camporees these days. More than one person actually defended it by saying that all of them were Boy-only prior to girls joining. Seriously? I fully support girls being in the program - my daughter loves it. However, I insist that all events be open to boys and girls. To do so otherwise is an insult to the members of BSA who are excluded. Even our Catholic Camporee is open to everyone.

I'm curious, what is the latest traditional male gender role that is considered a threat? I'm one of those people who believe mixing females into the patrols puts the males at a disadvantage for personal growth, and possibly some harm by the adults. So, I struggle with the idea that girls are the ones at risk. I've seen way too much overhype on this forum to not be concerned for the boys. One poster was bragging just the other day about all the girl cubs on the podium after the derby races. What was the point of the statement? Were boys also on the podium? We don't know, but we can imagin

I'd be having a conversation with the Camp Director, now. Make it clear to them- you're open to THEIR suggestions on how to share the use of the latrine, but explain in exactly the terms you outline here why only having the outside facility is not acceptable. It's a true public health issue if you and your troop cannot wash hands at times during the day. And, you're troop is paying the same as that troop, so it is not acceptable to you. If moving that troop to adjoin another site that has a female troop is a better option, then let the camp do so.

I thought that one of the points of YPT was to, in fact, shield scouts from people wishing to do harm? A lot of YPT is about prevention. Allowing hateful comments to remain on BSA social media posts (many remain and aren't deleted) seems like it would go against what we're trained to do, to stop the harm from continuing. We wouldn't just opt to ignore bullying comments made in-person, we respond to them, stop them, and address the scout or scouts making them. Comments made to make scouts feel unwelcome in the BSA constitute bullying, no matter where they happen. We certainly can't sh

Since you mentioned "Do I really spell out why that's contrary to the Scout Law?"... can you help me understand how a Pack "ignoring the separate dens by gender rule" isn't contrary to the Scout Law? Does that teach our Scouts that a Scout is Trustworthy? Ignoring rules that don't fit our agenda ("my scouts' ability to scout together") and then making reference to the Scout Law is rich.

There certainly is room for discussion on those points, and on CO rights when it comes to membership, etc. My concern here is not about individual units, or CO discretion when it comes to who they allow to be a part of their chartered unit. This is about the broader ongoing harassment about girls being in the BSA at all, from people who very clearly would like to see girls excluded from the Scouts BSA program entirely.

Some other KPI (Key Performance Indicators) you may want to consider Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter and actively found Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter that you did not look for but who seemed to have turned up anyway Scouts left at gas / food stops last quarter while driving to or from outings Number of rain jackets forgotten at last outing with rain (can also be expressed as a percentage) Number of class A shirts misplace that seem to have magically been found Number of items "stolen" on an outing last quarter that were "found"

When my financial advisor found out I was a scout leader and taking other people's kids in my car and out camping, he recommended I carry umbrella liability insurance. I have done so for 30 years now. It is very reasonable in cost. You can be perfectly innocent and not at fault, but if you get sued or accused, it can cost you everything to defend yourself. Such is today's litigious society that feels if my kid gets hurt, SOMEONE has to pay, no matter the reason.

Salomon Rushdie spoke on 60 minutes regarding censorship. "There seems to be a kind of growing orthodoxy, particularly amongst young people, that censorship … is a good thing," Rushdie told correspondent Anderson Cooper. "The thing that's different now is that it's also coming from progressive voices," he said. "There are progressive voices saying that certain kinds of speech should be not permitted because it offends against this or that vulnerable group." Rushdie said that when speech is suppressed, the people who are first impacted are often minority groups. "To suppor

4/16/2024: Sixteen-year-old Emily Green, a first-generation Costa Rican American is a Eagle Scout. Her family came to this country with practically nothing, living in shelters, finally getting help from the Scouts. During the Report to the State, she addressed lawmakers at the Massachusetts State House. "Scouting has been instrumental in shaping my character and learning essential life skills. I started as a little girl, joining my brother, who's also an Eagle Scout, in his Scout troops. Then I joined a progressive co-ed troop and advanced through the ranks from a cub scout to Eagle

We solved the "3x the work" cooking issue by camping next to the parking lot and ordering out-by patrols, of course. Separate patrol checks. Scouts can't cook, but at least "Thrifty" is a work-in-progress.

Her argument is that is 3x the work. An ASM tried to explain to her that this is the process. This is how things get done. Cooking for 11 isn’t easy, or how it should be done.

Zack Gridley was diagnosed with Cerebral Palsy when he was just one year old after suffering from a double brain bleed shortly after birth. After years of developmental therapy Zack Gridley decided to join cub scouts in 2016. He's earned over 40 badges with Boy Scout Troop 55. "I would highly recommend because you get to develop a bond with people in your troop," Zack said. "Everyone helped me through this journey, and I worked very hard," Zack added. Zack's parents said though he received some accommodations on his journey, he mostly took on scout challenges on his own. "He

Please remember, the folks who pushed for the membership changes internally by your logic should have removed themselves, or been removed by BSA long before the membership changes happened.

I'm suggesting it's OK for adults to express reservations about membership changes online or in a Zoom meeting, provided it's done in a tactful manner. There is no need to "crack down" on them unless their comments target specific youth members or are deliberately hurtful. If you feel a youth in your area has been treated unfairly, by all means intervene on their behalf. Scouting would not exist in some communities today were it not for some of these "old school" scout leaders. Change takes time and I'm not sure you can get there by extinguishing dissent.

My favorite events are ones where I can just show up with my son and be a dad. I would gladly pay more in fees if it resulted in better, more frequent program opportunities at the council and district levels (unclear if that's the case). I'm a pretty frugal guy with a regular job and $165 doesn't seem that ridiculous by today's standards. Anyone else ashamed to admit what they spend on youth sports or their pets? 🙂

It sucks. I don’t mind, but I have a job where these fees aren’t hard for me to pay AND I already buy into the program. The hard part is when someone is new, when a person can’t really afford the fees, or when a unit doesn’t have the funds to pay for the adults. So, this really hinders growth since the growth comes at the margins, not from existing members. The $25 fee that is now gone, was a good example. “Let’s make it more expensive for new people, that will be a great way to get new people to sign up.” Sure. Great plan.

Well, in many cases it is subtle. You can't really address this or you are "not supportive", so there is no real alternative other than to be disgruntled. - We have seen at camp the female troops request, dare I say demand, that certain bath houses be "female only". Note these bathhouses are all setup with multiple locking single rooms in them, all open to the outside - There have been requests at camp for some activities to be female only at times (water skiing, climbing wall to name a few), yet the narrative is we are all Scouts, so why the request for special consideration?

@Armymutt, I think you'd agree it's like being in the military: The best thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. The worst thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. 😉 😉 😜 😜 😜

I’m glad you can air your grievances. My conservation: there is a great temptation among leaders of female troops to clear a zone for the girls. In my experience this is especially true for male leaders. We had one upset that our boys were fishing behind their girls tents. Well, when they weren’t girls tents, nobody made a fuss about where our boys were fishing. Heck, the previous year, with a different female troop, not only did they not complain their leaders were grateful that our boys treated them like fellow scouts. Needless to say the boys are frustrated about the mixed signals. And

Right. Signs can be moved. Schedules can be adjusted. Separate times scheduled and posted for youth/adult and female/male is good practice. That the troop was unable to accommodate male troop camping next to them speaks volumes of their leadership.

I"m sure this camp falls under a council. How about bringing it up to the council board. Just not going is good for your unit, but leaves the same problem that would fill your troop's week. How about identifying the troop to council and camp that took over the latrine. I'm more of the thinking Scouts can be courteous, but not a weak victim and just take it on the chin. Standing up for yourself and others is scout like too...brave? And to those leaders on the site (I hope they contribute) that condone taking over the latrine, you allowed Scouts to show an ugly side of shared camping and

I recently took a flight and as we approached the destination gate I heard something along the lines of "We know you have many choices when choosing carriers and thank you for choosing XXX airlines" The same is true of Scout camps. If the camp cannot at least make an attempt to correct the situation they should not be surprised if that unit does not return next year.

How can a troop over ride the camp director? Barry

And which part of the Scout Oath and Law makes it OK to make up your own rules when you don't like the ones you agreed to follow when you signed your membership application?

A Scout is Trustworthy. Full stop. That's my agenda--I'm not being secretive about it. I love the tortured logic to arrive at your conclusion though.

One of the kindest, most mature, and friendliest of my scouts made his arguments about why BSA should not have included girls to me and, I later learned, to scouts of mixed sexes in a merit badge class being led by a female camp staff. Exactly which cudgel should I have had BSA reign down upon him? Meanwhile I have had to help multiple female scouts stand firm against proper sexual harassment from scouts (or sometimes verbal abuse from scouters). They don’t want anyone to get hurt, they don’t think they’ll be believed, they think they led on, or they think it’s part of the job. It’s

I really don't understand where these extremist comments are coming from? It's out there. ... Society has been debating major topics for decades and will continue to do so. The "who can hit who and for what" is mid-evil. I pray that's not the frame of mind brought to this forum. ... The topics now are balanced funding for both Women's Studies and Men's Studies departments. Inclusion of women on men's sports teams and inclusion of men on women's sports teams. Mandatory paternal parental leave. Bring your son to work day. Why are more women graduating college than men? ... There i

Instagram is a public forum. And the BSA is tagging the troops they repost content from, so the scouts and scouters in those troops can (and do) see the comments. Yes I spoke up, as I intend to do anywhere I see this stuff, as well as share my concerns directly with whoever at National I can get to listen, starting with folks like Lisa Schuchart. So... what then? Adults should tell their scouts to not look at the posts the BSA tagged their troop in because of peoples' right to make hateful comments aimed at those scouts? Why do the kids have to look the other way on posts that t

The sad thing with this is that historically, BSA has been very inclusive overall. They were far ahead in acceptance of other races, especially Blacks, though dealing with the larger society was a real challenge. Yet even in the South, there are historical proof that some found a way for them to be involved. Similarly, when the Gay issue hit the fan, the issue was forced on BSA from society, rather than BSA making it an issue. I still feel that the Dale fiasco was brought on by people outside the actual unit and it members. They were aware, but simply had not felt it worth worrying about.

There is certainly more hostility and rudeness everywhere today. IMHO, correcting character mistakes by following the Scout Oath and Law is part of the game's purpose as is having the Courtesy to express our thoughts civilly and listen to other viewpoints. Maybe uniformed Scouts should, once again, be at all voting locations this November? My $0.01 for rambling,

Those are all great ideas. I'd add: Form an adult patrol. Act like a patrol. Make a yell. A flag. Camp apart. Have your own kitchen, just like theirs. Do your menu, just like they do. Have your own grubmaster. Plan your own patrol activities when it's patrol time. Set the example.

Interesting articles in the last few days. Uri Berliner (NPR editor) published editorial about NPR, bias, DEI and other related topics. Really well thought out. https://www.thefp.com/p/npr-editor-how-npr-lost-americas-trust Uri Berliner suspended by NPR. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/media/npr-suspends-uri-berliner-liberal-bias/index.html I'm a four decade long NPR listener from three different parts of the country. My local channels have absolutely been incredible. But like the article says, I've had a hard time continuing listening recently becau

Minor argument that is negotiable. One scout on a campout could be a patrol. We can all agree a patrol is a patrol. Regrouping into adhoc patrols or doing doing things at the troop level subverts the patrol system. When forming long-term patrols at troop meetings, two patrols is not good. Ideally, seven scouts is a good patrol size. ... BUT if on the campout, only one scout from that patrol goes on the campout, then that scout should be given the option to cook by themselves.

It is my understanding that yes it is. One would think they would keep the domain and just forward it to scouting.org forever. The lab coats aren't on scoutshop.org any longer. After I wrote the above, I realized that it used to be on beascout.org and isn't there. I used the waybackmachine to see that sometime between April 2022 and August, the option to search for STEM Scouts was removed.

Scouting is fundamentally about being a member of society. Civil discourse. Acting as part of a community. Discussion is core to scouting. That's not correct. This forum debated membership changes for as long as I've been a member. Both sides have been debated. At least a decade if not 15+ years. Ahhh. The value in one person's eyes justifies their crimes. The ends justify the means. So, it's okay for them to violate the Scout Law because they "believe" their beliefs justify breaking the agreement they signed when they agreed to be scout leaders? ... But, the

Isn't that what the topic is? It sounds like members have an issue with them in Scouting period, not necessarily in their unit or CO. Which goes back to my original point. What the CO decides is correct, however, your CO's decision doesn't speak for the entire organization, which is what is happening here.

The way I see it, when you register (or re-register) as an adult leader, you are agreeing to uphold the decisions and responsibilities mandated by the organization, regardless of your personal feelings. If you can't do that, then you leave the organization (like so many already have) and carry on with your life. No different from any other private membership organization. Yes, change takes time. But getting use to the change and refusing to are completely separate feelings. And in the eyes of the organization, they are going to move on with or without you.

Boy Scout Troop 47's Mighty Duck Patrol all earn LIfe rank. Scout Salute! More at source: https://www.times-herald.com/arts_and_community/mighty-duck-patrol-simultaneously-reaches-rank-of-life-scout/image_1c3ab2d8-f2b8-11ee-893f-8f204c1509a5.html

I was always taught the 13th Law wa "A Scout is Hungry"....

If the camp commissioners and other staff are not doing their job, go to another camp.

I was curious what relevant material the CyberChip Award might have. In the Scout Cyber Chip Contract which is modelled after Scout Law Brave: If I witness any instances of cyberbullying, illegal activities, or suicidal threats, I will go directly to my parents. However from Advancement Updates 2024 "The Cyberchip has been phased out. Scouts should use the Personal Safety Awareness training at https://www.scouting.org/training/youth-protection/scouts-bsa/ for both Scout and Star ranks." From there a video link https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/YPSAT/bullying/story

Let's be careful here... Rules (and rulemakers) cannot perfectly address all situations. Just like laws (and lawmakers) cannot. There has to be room for judgment, common sense, and matters of conscience. For example, take something simple like the speed limit. It is the law. Day to day, I obey it, even though it is really inconvenient. (Yes, I am that guy on the road, in the right lane with cruise control set to the speed limit 😜 ) But, if I am transporting a Scout to the emergency room, you can bet your boots I am speeding. I will break that law. The situation demands it.