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  3. Liz

    Working With Others

    I am no expert but I would think it would be entirely appropriate especially if the content is taken directly from the BSA guidelines. If you're thinking about making your own rules, then your COR and your committee would probably need to approve the ideas first. But if you're talking about a "quick summary" of BSA guidelines for uniforms and smoking rules and other adult behavior guidelines, I don't see how that could be inappropriate.
  4. 5thGenTexan

    Working With Others

    Would it be inappropriate of me to developing a Leader guide that sets expectations and guidelines for our Unit Leaders? No smoking or any facsimile thereof around Scouts, uniform expectations for leaders, etc... Everyone knows straight up what is expected of them?
  5. The thing that's missing here is a description of the program. We have aims and methods but no description of how the methods lead to the aims. It almost sounds like it's multiple choice. It seems to me that @Eagledad is saying the program has a large component in which older scouts teach, work with, and lead the younger scouts to eventually take the place of the older scouts. Although I like this it isn't explicitly explained anywhere. @fred8033 seems to be saying it's less about that and more about adventure. Of course, that isn't described anywhere either. Maybe I'm putting words in people's mouths but my only point is there's no guidance as to what the program is. This is causing confusion. For a contrast, and I've mentioned this before, I met some Israeli scouts and their program is almost entirely about the older scouts guiding the younger scouts. A scout troop goes from Kindergarten to 21-ish. There are no den leaders and very few adults (2-3 in a troop of 100). The older scouts are responsible for everyone and everything. We talked about ranks and they just didn't see how ranks could help them with their responsibilities. Eagle was just an odd idea to them. If you're going to be an older scout then you will be running a troop. From the day you join as a 6 year old you know what you'll be responsible for as you get older. Whether you like this model or not, there's no question what the program is. Everyone knows what it is. I'd rather see more outdoors but their sense of camaraderie, teamwork, and community is impressive. The scouts I met, while admittedly a select group, were above and beyond what I've seen in any similar group in the BSA. Leadership, confidence, responsibility. They were an impressive group. They also have over 90% of eligible youth in their scouting program.
  6. RememberSchiff

    Working With Others

    You need a common goal...or enemy.
  7. When I staffed JLT, NYLT's predecessor course, the #1 complaint from the Scouts at the 6 month post-course conference, was that the SMs would not let the Scouts use what they learned to run the troop. Back in the day, the SMs had a precourse meeting they attended with their Scouts going, and they could attend the graduation ceremony and banquet. Most of the problem SMs didn't attend either. Strongly recommend it, especially for new SMs.
  8. David CO

    Working With Others

    You have already taken the first step. Come on this forum and talk with people you can't stand. Once you've mastered that skill, dealing with similar people in the real world won't seem quite so hard.
  9. Sentinel947

    New NYLT age requirements effective 1 Feb 19

    That's where Wood Badge is supposed to play a roll, giving Scoutmasters the same tools their Scouts received at NYLT. Granted, attending Wood Badge is a commitment of time and money some Scoutmasters can't or don't want to make. My Scoutmaster when I was a youth hadn't gone to Wood Badge, and so he didn't understand what we were taught at NYLT, so I took NYLT, and never really got to use much of what I was taught in my troop until I became an adult.
  10. Yesterday
  11. Our council once polled the SMs for the pros and cons of the NYLT cours. The number 1 con was they didn’t know how to support their scouts because they didn’t know what they were taught. Request the course directors to leave one minute at the end of each class for participats to write a note of what they can do for the troop with that lesson. Then instruct the SMs to sit with their scouts and create a plan from each note. Barry
  12. Not typically, but the situation is unusual. We had the scouts write ticket items (plan from skills learned during the course) and review them with their SM at the end of the course to develop a plan together. Barry
  13. I agree that they would probably get more out of the course if they were older. But my troop just elected a 13-year-old PL as the top youth leader in the one patrol troop (and she is, I think, the best choice they could have made) and she appointed a 13-year-old QM to help her who again I think was a good choice. From my troop's point of view, I would rather they get the NYLT training this summer, instead of waiting until next year. (And once 2020 rolls around they would have to be first class, and I am not encouraging a race to first class in a year.) Why do we not have older scouts in top leadership positions? Because the couple of 14-year-olds we have are terribly shy, and one is not fluent in English yet. Is this typically allowed? Is this encouraged? I would probably learn a lot if I could observe the course.
  14. As someone who was responsible for the Council Junior Leadership Development and NYLT (JLTC), the average 14 year old doesn’t have the maturity for the advanced course. Maybe the girls do, but not the boys. Ideally, adult troop leaders observing the course would bring back more value to their troop. Barry
  15. I know not every stove is equal, but how much canister fuel should we expect to start with? How often do you restock? We haven't been able to do enough shakedowns to get a good idea. I was able to boil about 5-6 quarts of water in about 13 minutes with our setup. How much water do you need to boil for 10 crew members? I'll have a personal stove for coffee, so I'll have an emergency stash of fuel.
  16. Eagledad

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    Yes, we got rid of the course and changed to as minimal training as we could. We found that leadership development courses should only be used to give enough basic tools for surviving the first month in office, or to fix a specific problem. We went from doing annual troop training weekends to a one hour course after each SPL election. Ironically, when we were doing the the troop weekend training course, a couple of troops asked if they could send a few of their scouts. Even though stopped running the course because we determined it was way too much effort for knowledge gained, those other troops who participated in our course took the syllabus and started running their own course. For them, it was a fun weekend and gave their older scouts something to do. Barry
  17. mrkstvns

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    Quite right. While I think scouts (and adults) would benefit from all the exposure to leadership ideas they can get, they should not really be pushed into it, and dry classwork might well be counterproductive. In an ideal world, we'd just toss around nuggets of leadership wisdom while out on a lake fishing for trout, or hiking a 10-mile trail through wooded hills...
  18. Hmmm. Much as I love STEM fields, I can't help but feel like this is yet another effort doomed to do nothing but dilute the scouting brand.
  19. mashmaster

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    But dear lord after 3x through ILST, they are so sick of it. we have had scouts refuse to take leadership roles because they didn't want to take ILST again. once that is removed, many of them are the best leaders we have ever had. Having them sit through classes like this over and over again is a great way to push kids out of scouting. They want to scout and have fun and they will lead. They go to school for a significant amount of time and they want scouting to be different from school.
  20. Since I have little experience as an adult leader in a Crew, I take your word as gold. I find your post interesting because the crew members I found most bored were from General Interest crews. Based from my youth experience of Scuba Explorers, planning for scuba activities was relatively quick and easy. I agree that when open to do anything, a lot more time (and frustration) is spent deciding. Same goes with PLCs. Troops can sometimes get in a rut simply because repeating activities is easier than the pain of planning something new. Also, I may have said this somewhere else, but for the 20 or so years I was active, our district averaged loosing 3 out of 5 crews in their first five years. None of those crews were Specific Interest crews as far as I can remember. I think there are several reasons, but the main reason is the sponsors of specific interest crews are generally organizations or businesses specializing in that specific theme and don't loose interest. Sponsors of general interest crews are typically parents who move on when their kids move on. Barry
  21. Well, at work it was behind a pay wall but from home it works. Go figure.
  22. Recently heard a yet another group with the BSA - Invention Scouts , not be confused with STEM Scouts. Invention Scouts is a new program developed to help today's Co-Ed youth and young adults to "Become Better Inventors". On this Website, and at Crew meetings Invention Scouts will learn new Skills, how to work within a Team, Create new Inventions and use your new skills for Community Service. When you join Invention Scouts you will become part of an Invention Team. There are one or more Teams in a Crew. The Post or Crew has a meeting place, a chartering organization, and an Adult Advisor. There is also a Crew Committee made up of parents and other adult volunteers. Each Crew and their Invention Teams will determine their Invention focus. Their focus can change over time. For example, a team could focus on inventions in fashion, or bio-medical inventions etc. http://www.inventionscouts.org/invention-scouts
  23. Here, I think there are three models 1) Specialty crews like the SCUBA crews are chartered by subject experts and only do that activity. 2) We have a crew chartered by an outdoor store that is nominally a climbing crew. They also backpack and canoe depending on scout interest. I would call this and similar crews high adventure crews. 3) We have standard CO chartered crew who do whatever that cohort of scouts wants.
  24. While I got his point, his argument as to why seemed a bit anicdotal. My take away from the whole article was - people who follow their true passions tend to be more successful. If you figure out what you passion is early in life and follow it, you do well. if you take some time to find your passion, you do well. If you get forced into picking something too soon and guess wrong - you don't do as well. The learning here that I think one could extract is - as an adult, don't feel that you have to pressure a youth to figure out their passion too soon. If you do, then the youth may very well pick wrong. I would agree with @Eagledad here, Scouting is a great place where a youth can live their dreams. The program is so varied - from advancement, to activities, to leadership. It's like a microcosm of life where youth can explore and develop. That's a pretty cool thing. If leveraged well, Scouting can help a youth explore their interests and maybe understsand their passion in life better. But, we as parents and Scouters need to be careful not to try and force Scouts to fit a certain mold. If we try to make Scouts all do the same things, then individual youth suffer because they don't get to follow and develop those things that really interest them and ultimately could make them happier in life.
  25. Sadly yes. The vast majority of families in our troop are either outdoorsy or scouting heritage families. So camping, knots, and cooking are a given. Map skills, first aid, and LNT are more uneven. Pioneering and lashing are weak. Among our under 16 scouts everyone has at least one BSA, GS, Scout Association, or Scouts Canada parent.
  26. I'm not quite sure what the article is saying beyond letting your kids do what they want to do. I don't know. In reference to our scouting program, I believe scouting is one of the few programs where a boy can live his dreams. The challenge for the adults is building a program without barriers to the dream. The greatest deterrent to a great scouting program is the adults' common idealist dream for each scout. I understood this realization more and more as I experience peeling away layer after layer of my pride to remove barriers from the program that got in the way of scouts. One time I was talking to a scout who was leaving troop meetings early for his job. I don't remember the conversation exactly, but I will never forget his one comment "Because of his job, my ASM dad shows up to every meeting 45 minutes late, and nobody says anything about it. I leave each meeting early for my job and everybody is upset. I like scouts, and I like my job. Why do I have to make a choice and the adults don't?" Wow! Another adult idealistic dream holding back another scout. Like ripping off a sticky bandaid, I painfully pulled off another layer of pride to remove the barrier to this scouts scouting experience. Changing the program to be more open to the scouts' personal lives wasn't near a challenging as explaining my reasoning to the other adults with idealistic dreams for the scouts. I can only handle so much humility at one time. Sometimes a SM has to pull out their SM Card to trial new ideas.😎 Barry
  27. Oh.. shoot sorry didnt think of that. 😣 duh
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  • Posts

    • I am no expert but I would think it would be entirely appropriate especially if the content is taken directly from the BSA guidelines.  If you're thinking about making your own rules, then your COR and your committee would probably need to approve the ideas first. But if you're talking about a "quick summary" of BSA guidelines for uniforms and smoking rules and other adult behavior guidelines, I don't see how that could be inappropriate. 
    • Would it be inappropriate of me to developing a Leader guide that sets expectations and guidelines for our Unit Leaders?   No smoking or any facsimile thereof around Scouts, uniform expectations for leaders, etc...  Everyone knows straight up what is expected of them?
    • The thing that's missing here is a description of the program. We have aims and methods but no description of how the methods lead to the aims. It almost sounds like it's multiple choice.  It seems to me that @Eagledad is saying the program has a large component in which older scouts teach, work with, and lead the younger scouts to eventually take the place of the older scouts. Although I like this it isn't explicitly explained anywhere. @fred8033 seems to be saying it's less about that and more about adventure. Of course, that isn't described anywhere either. Maybe I'm putting words in people's mouths but my only point is there's no guidance as to what the program is. This is causing confusion. For a contrast, and I've mentioned this before, I met some Israeli scouts and their program is almost entirely about the older scouts guiding the younger scouts. A scout troop goes from Kindergarten to 21-ish. There are no den leaders and very few adults (2-3 in a troop of 100). The older scouts are responsible for everyone and everything. We talked about ranks and they just didn't see how ranks could help them with their responsibilities. Eagle was just an odd idea to them. If you're going to be an older scout then you will be running a troop. From the day you join as a 6 year old you know what you'll be responsible for as you get older. Whether you like this model or not, there's no question what the program is. Everyone knows what it is. I'd rather see more outdoors but their sense of camaraderie, teamwork, and community is impressive. The scouts I met, while admittedly a select group, were above and beyond what I've seen in any similar group in the BSA. Leadership, confidence, responsibility. They were an impressive group. They also have over 90% of eligible youth in their scouting program.  
    • You need a common goal...or enemy.
    • When I staffed JLT, NYLT's predecessor course, the #1 complaint from the Scouts at the 6 month post-course conference, was that the SMs would not let the Scouts use what they learned to run the troop. Back in the day, the SMs had a precourse meeting they attended with their Scouts going, and they could attend the graduation ceremony and banquet. Most of the problem SMs didn't attend either. Strongly recommend it, especially for new SMs.
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