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  2. qwazse

    Working With Others

    @5thGenTexan. personality questions aside, these questions are constant in scouting. I've always been asking myself, "What am I best at?" Or, more importantly, "What do I enjoy doing so much that a few flawed personalities won't dissuade me?" So, for me, I would have loved to do nothing more than help rally venturing in my district and council. But, I realized that, with our troop merger, we had SMs and boys who needed a good bit of care to move them from Committtee-managed to PLC-managed. Neither the district/council nor our troop were completely devoid of abrasive personalities. But at the troop level, there was no doubt that my SM and I and our troop's other ASMs knew how to mentor boys. Parents could disagree with us for a litany of reasons (e.g., the SM for the past few years never wore a uniform), but they couldn't disagree with smiles on the boy's faces. So, I'm on the sidelines of my council venturing committee. The net effect was that I got assigned to a World Scout Jamboree troop -- as opposed to a crew. Oh well! I still get 36 youth to work with, and they'll let me wear my green suit when it suits me. Back home, this month a first-year can now tie a taut-line hitch. Paycheck! Sounds like your after the same thing. Let someone who doesn't want to deal with a den be a CM.
  3. Jameson76

    First Class 1a - Troop Activities

    We had one very eager to rank up. He was looking for a BOR and I asked about troop activities. He said he went on the raft trip, went climbing with the troop, did the five mile hike, and took a hike to an outpost, and had been to summer camp. I had to explain him that as all the list of activities; raft trip, climbing, five mile hike, and hike to an outpost; took place while at summer camp, that was only one troop activity...summer camp. Each thing he did while at summer camp was not in fact a separate activity. We discussed that the intent of the requirement was to have scouts be involved in the troop. He questions my interpretation and wanted to know if I was a lawyer. Told him I was not.
  4. HelpfulTracks

    Working With Others

    I hate to see you walk away from the CM position, but sometimes saying no is the best choice for all involved, particularly you and your son. If you do choose this path, understand that the same people that you are having difficulty with (or someone like them) may end up in that position. Maybe your path can including influencing who will take that position and help make the choice a wise one for the youth.
  5. HelpfulTracks

    Working With Others

    Indeed my nic/handle is based on the B-P quote, "No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way." I love the quote because it speaks to how I try to lead youth and adults.
  6. Today
  7. @Venda welcome to scouter.com
  8. jjlash

    Working With Others

    Expanding on the "my sandbox, my rules" approach - insist that the pack will be run according to the BSA materials for the Cub program. This begins with everyone being trained for not only their position but all of the positions in the pack (aside - new facilitator led Cub leader training came out yesterday, it is scheduled to run 4 hours to cover DL, CM, MC). Once people know what their job is, and what everyone elses job is, they know what is expected of them and they know why we do things one way and not another. @HelpfulTracks I assume your handle is referring to the BP quote about leaving tracks. One of my very favorites - I am big on not reinventing the wheel so I use this quote often to remind my teams to capture their lessons learned "for those coming after".
  9. Hi, I know this thread is died out as dinosaurs but I'd like to tell you a little bit about my own experience. My wife and I use a Snowpeak canister stove, Evernew 1.9l pot with a cozy, an MLD 850ml mug and two titanium sporks: https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Peak-Giga-Power-Stove/dp/B002T4ODGM When the kids (5&6) come along we add two additional sporks, two titanium bowls (https://getawaychief.com/backpacking-mess-kit/) and two titanium double wall mugs. We have lightened the load a few ounces by only taking the MLD mug to heat water and drink tea, but neither of us like eating out of freezer bags and the bigger pot allows us to cook everything for two people in one container and is great for boiling water to wash up at night. With the kids, the bigger pot is a necessity: https://youtu.be/_wuzCggioeY Dinner and breakfast usually work something like this: Boil water in the pot, then add in food and set aside in the cozy. Boil water in the mug to make tea. When the tea is done and cooled enough to drink, the food is usually ready to eat.
  10. qwazse

    First Class 1a - Troop Activities

    Just a general point: I go with what the scout records in his log, regardless of if it is in troopmaster. This does mean that a scout may have an event as one of his ten that his buddy who also participated does not. If a scout asks for a calendar of events, that's fine, otherwise adults should not be auto-filling requirements. I find that mindfulness is an important tool for the scout to have.
  11. ianwilkins

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    I've been a leader for over 25 years now, and I've never seen a ceremonial UK flag disposed of or destroyed, but your right, the official flag protocol is burning, or cutting up. Most of us are just trying to make sure we put the UK flag up the right way, so we're not telling other ships we're in distress!
  12. 5thGenTexan

    Working With Others

    I am leaning in the direction of not accepting the CM at all. I am thinking its better for my sanity to stay as a Den Leader only. In fact I don't want any position on the committee, and I dont want my opinion asked for. Honestly I want to be left alone and provide the program to the best of my ability to my Den. The only other option is to leave entirely and that is bad for my own kid.
  13. qwazse

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    The trained patch is intended to acknowledge that the scout/scouter is trained for his/her position (e.g. IOLS for SM/ASMs, ILST for PL/SPL, ILSC for crew officers), a few years ago NYLT was given it's own strip to acknowledge that a youth is trained to deliver the scouting program to his/her unit. It's actually kind of wimpy compared to the old JLT patch. Training is not a rank, either you have it, or you don't. Change position, remove your trained strip until you complete training for your new position. http://www.scoutinsignia.com/trained.htm NAYLE is not the highest, just a highly unique level. A youth can also participate in Kodiak, Powderhorn, WFA, and LNT. (https://www.scouting.org/programs/venturing/training/advanced-youth-training/). The norm with advanced leadership training is to not wear it on one's sleeve. For those recognitions, we have the right pocket, the backs of MB sashes, and brag vests -- or we have special neckerchiefs, beads and woggles.
  14. fred8033

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    I keep reading because I keep thinking I'm missing something. Especially as I see people say BSA has long done mixed age patrols. I just don't see that. Baden Powell ... "The Patrol is the unit of Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty." Bill Hillcourt ... One of the main driving influenced and respected BSA leaders Bill HillCourt wrote a series of essays ... in addition to writing much of hte BSA program ... http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/hillcourt/method.htm .... "This gang, this natural unit of boys for boy activities, is the all-important unit in Scouting. It changes it name, it is true, from gang to Patrol, but it is a "gang" just the same, a small, permanent group of boys allied by similar interests, working together under the responsible leadership of one of its number—the Patrol Leader." 1950s Boy Scout Handbook (page 88): "The Scout patrol is the finest boys' gang in all the world. The patrol is the unit that makes Scouting go. It is a group of boys, usually six to eight, who pal together because they like to do the same things." Scouting Magazine ... How Scout's friendships strength patrols. ... https://scoutingmagazine.org/2012/04/how-scouts-friendships-strengthen-patrols/ Woodbadge ... Meant to mimic a scout's experience in scouts. The new scouts (class attendees) are put into patrols where everyone is brand new. No existing leaders in the patrol. Patrol members have to figure it out. TGs regularly reach in and mentor the patrol. Lots of mentoring as the patrol gets started. Less later on. The patrol does not start with a certain percent of the patrol coming from a previous Wood badge course or part of the leaders of the course. Instead, everyone in the patrol starts the same. Though people argue about the past, it seemed fairly consistent. My issue is I just don't really know what BSA recommends anymore. BSA has lost it's vision of why patrols beyond the shallow statement they are important.
  15. fred8033

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    I don't accept your premise and I believe mixed age requires similar mentoring from outside. Just now you are mentoring an older PL on being a leader ... because he's the older scout and he's usually the leader because older scouts can can intimidate younger scouts ... and the patrol that is designed to teach rank requirements internally still has scouts going to brown sea programs and splitting off to learn knots and first aid with scouts from other patrols. ... But now also add a power imbalance that naturally occurs when you put a 16/17 year old in the same social group as a 11/12 year old. Add that not every scout wants to mentor younger scouts but is now in that forced structure. It's why I do NOT like the new leader guide. Our debate here is also now represented briefly in the BSA troop leader guide with no offered solution or recommendation. BSA split from the long held recommendation into this misplaced argument and has wrongly started using the term "same age." I don't remember that in the old Scoutmaster Handbook. If a term should be used, it should be the "same interest patrol" or "friends patrol". Patrols should exist because they want to spend time together and want to do similar things. My frustration is with the new leader guidebook. The Scoutmaster Handbook seemed to promote a direction / concept. That concept seemed consistent with my experience and what I've read from Baden-Powell, Hillcourt and previous publications like the 1950s Boy Scout handbook. I ask the question because I think it's the real issue. We've lost vision on why we have patrols. Do patrols exist primarily to teach and the scouts get the side benefit of activities? Or do patrols exist to be active and do things and. thru the doing as a side benefit. the scouts learn and grow. I really think the later is what scouts is about. Focus on activities and through activities scouts learn many things. Do patrols exist to TEACH or to DO ? You say the first. I say the second. ... In my view this is the key issue. This is important because it shapes how we view and interact with our patrols. I read this Scouting magazine article many years ago and I still think it's very well written on the topic. How Scout's friendships strength patrols. https://scoutingmagazine.org/2012/04/how-scouts-friendships-strengthen-patrols/ I strongly recommend this reading.
  16. Eagle94-A1

    Recommendations for canister stove

    @69RoadRunner THANK YOU!
  17. Yesterday
  18. MikeS72

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    The other thing to remember when retiring flags, particularly with younger scouts, is the hazard presented by melting and dripping synthetic fabrics.
  19. MikeS72

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    There is a nice article in the Bryan on Scouting blog about this subject. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/09/08/retiring-worn-out-american-flags/ There is also a link to a script very similar to one we used a few years ago at Cub Day Camp. http://usscouts.org/ceremony/flagret1.asp
  20. RememberSchiff

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    Interesting for disposal, by law, the national flag of Argentina is to be cut in a certain way before incinerated.
  21. Saltface

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    I think most countries retire the flag through incineration (eg. Mexico, Argentina, UK). The hard part about finding flag protocol for other countries is that it's usually in another language. Argentina has a pretty robust flag code. Google translate butchers the text but you can get the idea: https://translate.google.com.ar/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.gob.gba.gov.ar/legislacion/legislacion/l-14438.html&prev=search. Trivia: they applaud the flag instead of saluting it when it passes. If I remember correctly, the US flag folding pattern is by custom, not by law.
  22. RememberSchiff

    Loveland Castle, Chateau Larouche (OH)

    A bakery? He must have made a lot of bread to build a castle.
  23. RememberSchiff

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    When I had my Cubs den, I was curious of the flag protocols of other countries. I did not find much beyond fly flag in proper orientation. Nothing about folding, disposal. Do other countries have written flag codes? Hopefully the upcoming World Jamboree will shed light.
  24. ValleyBoy

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    My Troop retires around 200 flags a year. The above is correct. The only thing that we absolutely do not do is refer to the flag retirement as a flag burning. We different people bring us a flag to be retired and tell us that they have a flag to be burned we tell them that we see a US Flag burning as a protest against our great country therefore we do not burn flags but retire the Flag by fire.
  25. Eagledad

    How to increase usage of Patrol Method

    Our troop slotted two months out of the year for patrol campouts. They were very popular for the scouts and adults who supported them. Fishing and hiking seemed to be the most popular theme. To further encourage patrol independence, they are asked to find their own rides for both scouts and gear for all camp outs. If they need additional space for gear, the PQM calls the TQM to reserve space in the trailer. If a patrol needs the troop trailer, they can request as well provided the driver and PQM have been trained and checked out by the TQM. I imagine insurance may have further requirements today. We also encourage patrols to travel independently from the troop (or troop trailer), but we found that some of the parks and camps don't like the groups checking in over several hours. Barry
  26. Eagle94-A1

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    The folks who went to NJLIC, NAYLE's predecessor course, that I encountered were mighty proud of those patches. And uy my argument or not, BSA has a policy of only creating new patches if demand for them is over a certain number. Heck when I ordered Sea Scout stuff a few years back, I think it was 2015, the stuff still had "Sea Exploring" tags on it. and Sea Exploring died July 31, 1998. So 17 years later they still were getting rid of inventory.
  27. mrkstvns

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    That's precisely why the shoulder emblem makes sense. NAYLE represents the highest level of leadership training a youth can reach, so the "normal" position on the sleeve is where it should be indicated --- not a "temporary" place that is unlikely to be used by most youth.
  28. qwazse

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    I don't think any of us here designed the program, so you won't find a satisfying reason here. I suspect someone asked a focus group of youth what they'd like in terms of insignia, and they thought the temporary patch was good enough. If they had a NAYLE shoulder patch, then they'd have to swap it in. It's such a hassle tearing off those little patches just to put on new ones. This isn't GS/USA. You're not supposed to plaster yourself in patches for every scouting experience that you have. Pick your favorite for the field uniform, save the rest for a brag vest. I actually had a venturer told me that's why she liked the program.
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    • @5thGenTexan. personality questions aside, these questions are constant in scouting. I've always been asking myself, "What am I best at?" Or, more importantly, "What do I enjoy doing so much that a few flawed personalities won't dissuade me?" So, for me, I would have loved to do nothing more than help rally venturing in my district and council. But, I realized that, with our troop merger, we had SMs and boys who needed a good bit of care to move them from Committtee-managed to PLC-managed. Neither the district/council nor our troop were completely devoid of abrasive personalities.  But at the troop level, there was no doubt that my SM and I and our troop's other ASMs knew how to mentor boys. Parents could disagree with us for a litany of reasons (e.g., the SM for the past few years never wore a uniform), but they couldn't disagree with smiles on the boy's faces. So, I'm on the sidelines of my council venturing committee. The net effect was that I got assigned to a World Scout Jamboree troop -- as opposed to a crew. Oh well! I still get 36 youth to work with, and they'll let me wear my green suit when it suits me. Back home, this month a first-year can now tie a taut-line hitch. Paycheck! Sounds like your after the same thing. Let someone who doesn't want to deal with a den be a CM.
    • We had one very eager to rank up.  He was looking for a BOR and I asked about troop activities.  He said he went on the raft trip, went climbing with the troop, did the five mile hike, and took a hike to an outpost, and had been to summer camp.  I had to explain him that as all the list of activities;  raft trip, climbing, five mile hike, and hike to an outpost; took place while at summer camp, that was only one troop activity...summer camp.  Each thing he did while at summer camp was not in fact a separate activity.  We discussed that the intent of the requirement was to have scouts be involved in the troop. He questions my interpretation and wanted to know if I was a lawyer.  Told him I was not.
    • I hate to see you walk away from the CM position, but sometimes saying no is the best choice for all involved, particularly you and your son.  If you do choose this path, understand that the same people that you are having difficulty with (or someone like them) may end up in that position. Maybe your path can including influencing who will take that position and help make the choice a wise one for the youth.
    • Indeed my nic/handle is based on the B-P quote, "No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way." I love the quote because it speaks to how I try to lead youth and adults. 
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