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  2. I like this. But some nitpicking: Get the scouts trained & Set the scouts loose: Maybe not if you're starting a pack? I'd add: get some expertise to look over your shoulder. In a perfect world this would be a commissioner. This is not a perfect world. It should be someone you respect. The training can't cover everything. Also, for troops, make sure the adults are all on the same page as to what scout led means. There are lots of different opinions. All the people you're recruiting for adult leadership have to be interested in this job and willing to learn.
  3. Jameson76

    possible fee increase coming

    Well let's do the math 2,500,000 (Youth / Leaders / All in / Rounded up for ease of math) @ $33 = $82,500,000 less 525,000 LDS folks departing (yes yes I know, they may not have paid the full fees, lot of neat deals made, but let's press on) 1,975,000 (remaining) @ $33 = $65,175,000 Basic projected shortfall of $17,325,000 OR $8.77 per remaining participant to cover. That does not factor in the insurance increase, Summit Bechtel Reserve Tax, Scouting Professional Pension shortfalls, liability to abuse cases holdback, and a myriad of other financial woes hanging around out there. $49 may be the number That would be close to $97MM in revenue
  4. RememberSchiff

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    Now that's the ticket... ....Say that's a ticket idea for aspiring WBers. With pride, I was part of a group of scouters that built a latrine. It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far,far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known. A lot of Field of Dream whisper lines during construction.
  5. 69RoadRunner

    Cleaning and Drying a Sleeping Bag

    I've switched to quilts from Feathered Friends and Enlightened Equipment. When it's cold, I use the attachment strap on my sleeping pad. If it's warm, I can open it up. The underside of a sleeping bag provides no insulation because your body compresses it, eliminating all loft. All insulation comes from the pad.
  6. HashTagScouts

    possible fee increase coming

    The cost just to be counted as a "Scout" or "Scouter" at $100 I do see as a deal breaker for some for sure. We've been discussing in our TC the ramifications- we'd love to offer assistance to families if indeed it is that big of a jump, but short of rolling in more fund-raising there's a limit of what we can offer. Our CO is tapped. We don't want to have fund-raising to start to overtake time spent on activities. In my view, the community is pretty tapped on those peddling to them. As we have historically covered the cost of registered adults, this could be a big jump to our budget, and I'm beginning to have conversations with those who are only minor contributors - I can't justify paying a $100 for someone that comes only to handful of meetings, never camps, etc. I'm inclined to have them register as a MB counselor (assuming those are still free) just so I know YPT is being tracked.
  7. carebear3895

    possible fee increase coming

    I'm on the $49 train. We currently have a poll going on our office.
  8. qwazse

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    Regarding bathrooms/showers, etc ... Do your troops take it in rotation to clean your camp's showers? I know as a scout up until a few years ago mine did. Heck, I built* my camps' latrine. *Okay, "built" was quite a stretch ... kinda like how Al Gore and I built this here internet ... but my limited involvement in latrine assembly was because of a sudden bout of flu. It was mostly scouts slapping up posts and plywood while I huddled in a corner fighting chills.
  9. Jameson76

    possible fee increase coming

    The question will be, or National will try to push, is what is that breaking point? Is it $50, is it $60?? When will the frogs in the water in the slowly warming pot say "Wow, it's getting HOT" and jump out of the pot?
  10. 5thGenTexan

    possible fee increase coming

    I can not speak for everyone, but $100 recharter fee is a deal breaker for me, I have a Bear, I have a daughter who I am working on creating a Scouts BSA Troop in town, I am a leader as is my wife. We are not paying $400 a year just to send to National.
  11. Today
  12. Jackdaws

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    Yes, I am in the NFC. We were there the last week of June up in Campsite 19. Since it was out in the middle of no where is why we believe the bathrooms there were so nice. But the one down near the handicraft shelter and dining hall wasn't that bad considering it was a high volume usage.
  13. MikeS72

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    Well, we are both Floridian's, but it looks like you are just north of me, in North Florida Council. I am in Central Florida Council, and was referring to the set up at Camp La-No-Che. We were at Woodruff in July of 18. That was the camp that labeled the adult showers as for both adult and for female youth. There were quite a few of them in the block we used, so there were no issues (also, if I remember correctly, there were no female units that used that particular shower block) Daniel Boone had a shower house with 18 individual rooms; I think that the fact that they all had locking doors is why there was no male/female distinction made.
  14. Jackdaws

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    Camp Shands is much nicer than it used to be. Echockotee still has light years to go on getting enough restrooms. One campsite has a bathroom that hasn't worked in years. So it means that multiple campsites are using 1 women's restroom and if someone is taking a shower in there, you can forget it. For some events they bring in porta potty's. In Florida, you want to avoid those as much as possible. Its interesting to see from council to council how the restrooms are. 2 summers ago we went to Rainey Mountain and to me the bathrooms were not that great. My son complained that in the boys shower that several times, someone had pooped in the shower and there were other "bodily fluids" in there also. We went to Woodruff this past summer and it was so much nicer and a lot more private bathrooms and showers. Very clean. I just feel like the BSA isn't remembering the scout law in some of their decisions. How are we supposed to be thrifty when given very little notice about a rate increase? How is that courteous and trustworthy to families? It hurts potential loyalty also. Why should we trust that it wont just go up every year?
  15. Eagledad

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    National's reputation with polls and surveys precedes them. Barry
  16. Hi @Calion, This is a great list! I really like all the details at each step. Like others, I think that there will be a lot of fluidity in the ordering of the steps. Yes - there is a basic order to this, but depending on the strengths of the group and your particular situation, you may choose to do things in a difference sequence. One way I think about this is in the terms of basic goals a unit's team needs to accomplish. If I think of the goals I'd use then map your steps into it, I get: Make your plans 1. Decide what kind of unit you want to start Find a CO 2. Find a chartering organization. 3. Appoint a Chartered Organization Representative. Build your adult core team 4. Appoint a Committee Chair. 5. Get trained. 6. Recruit a Troop Committee. 7. Train the Troop Committee. 8. Select and recruit adult leaders. 9. Train the adult leaders. 10. Complete Youth Protection Training. 11. Get uniformed. Setup the unit’s infrastructure 12. Establish an online presence. 13. File the paperwork. 14. Present the Charter 17. Raise money. Recruit youth & get going 15. Recruit Scouts. 16. Have your first troop meeting. 18. Get the Scouts trained. 19. Set the Scouts loose. Continue to improve 20. Keep learning. 21. Have fun! While I think things will generally go in this order, I do believe that if you've got more than one or two adults, you might break this up into some parallel efforts. For example - a couple of folks could be working on adult recruiting while some others are getting the website & paperwork started.
  17. MikeS72

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    In many cases I would agree; fortunately, not in all cases.
  18. Eagledad

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    I work in the research field and, more then than not, polls and survey results are often interpreted to support a pre-desired vision. Barry
  19. MikeS72

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    I agree with the 'don't wait until the last minute' thing, and what it does to those of us who have to stand in front of a room full of parents and or Scouters and explain that we are not the ones to be throwing stones at when these things are announced just before taking effect. My DC and I were on the way to a meeting at the council office this past Sunday, and were in agreement that if there absolutely has to be a fee increase, it should wait until re-charter time NEXT year. I do at times wish there was something better than popcorn to raise funding that helps both the troop and the council. I know how tough it is to ask someone to throw down $30 for a bag of popcorn, and still keep a straight face. I also do see the direct results that some of that money that makes it to the council, in the form of camp improvements, scholarships, etc; so I and my Scout get out there and sell as much as possible. I have been to many camps that need to do better with restrooms/showers, not just for female Scouts, but just in general. This summer's out of state camp had shower rooms that were a considerable walk from the campsite, and nothing designating male/female usage, despite several girl troops being in camp that week. Last summer, we were in a camp that also had very large shower blocks shared by several campsites. They had put up signs on the row of adult only showers designating them as for both adults and female youth. Our local council camp (and based on some of your posts, @Jackdaws, I believe we are in the same council) has restroom/shower facilities in each campsite, so if we have a female unit in camp, they already have their own showers. Granted, it is limited to 2 showers, 2 toilets, and 2 urinals in each site, but most other camps I have been to, troops would love to have that available. As to anyone reading the surveys, I have to believe that someone does. I know that I go online and read the comments in surveys submitted by school staff after they attend training. I want to know if they feel my instructors are doing a good job, and if they feel that there are any changes we need to look at before the next session.
  20. yknot

    possible fee increase coming

    I know. The 'scouting is a great value' statement always has my eyes rolling. While scouting isn't more costly than other organizations or activities, it's not cheaper and there are lot of hidden costs in it in terms of not only material and activities but also time and energy. Don't even get me started about FOS or about volunteers who have to "pay" to volunteer.
  21. Jackdaws

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    I thought that to. LOL
  22. Absolutely. We did what we could, when we could. Some things we had to wait on that were beyond our control - for example, one potential CO was not be able to consider the idea of taking on a new troop until after they had completed a change of institutional head. So we did what we could, when we could, while hoping that the other things would eventually work out. For much of 2018 we did not know whether we would really get a troop up and running.
  23. desertrat77

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Our lodge has not published a camping guide. You can see where this is going!
  24. Eagle94-A1

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    When I was on the council Cub Scout committee, I noted that the #1 council camp for Cubs did not meet standards since it did not have showers. Was told the camp was grandfathered and had a waiver by the pro advisor for program. He stated if someone really wanted a shower, he would rig up a portable camp shower for them to use. Since the OA is an approved council document, many packs assume the camps listed are approved.
  25. Jameson76

    Council lost application

    Agree on the incomplete. As a unit we take the Eagle applications to the office, (pre-EBOR) then hang around until completed. We review them prior and even so, there is sometimes a date that does not work out right. We correct it right there. If we weren't there, I can see that application being put aside, e-mails sent (maybe), etc etc and it getting buried
  26. Eagle94-A1

    Voice of the Scout surveys

    I bet they won't send you anymore surveys now.
  27. Buggie

    Council lost application

    My council is notorious for losing paperwork. Most often, it isn't lost per se. More that the form is lacking some information or something is incomplete or not checked off, so instead of communicating the situation back to the unit/individual, they toss it and you have to figure it out months later and submit new paperwork. And likewise, even when it is received and processed, that isn't always updated on the right systems. Add the fact that some committees are horrible at following the status of things online and you can have situations where a leader is not official registered for over a year, even after paying rechartering etc. So ask me how I feel this whole re-do of background checks are going to go? My troop wasn't aware it was going to happen and as of last week, they didn't have a plan for a mass collection of the forms etc. I can see units having big problems with lost background checks.
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    • I like this. But some nitpicking: Get the scouts trained & Set the scouts loose: Maybe not if you're starting a pack? I'd add: get some expertise to look over your shoulder. In a perfect world this would be a commissioner. This is not a perfect world. It should be someone you respect. The training can't cover everything. Also, for troops, make sure the adults are all on the same page as to what scout led means. There are lots of different opinions. All the people you're recruiting for adult leadership have to be interested in this job and willing to learn.  
    • Well let's do the math 2,500,000 (Youth / Leaders / All in / Rounded up for ease of math) @ $33 = $82,500,000 less 525,000 LDS folks departing (yes yes I know, they may not have paid the full fees, lot of neat deals made, but let's press on) 1,975,000 (remaining) @ $33 = $65,175,000 Basic projected shortfall of $17,325,000 OR $8.77 per remaining participant to cover.  That does not factor in the insurance increase, Summit Bechtel Reserve Tax, Scouting Professional Pension shortfalls, liability to abuse cases holdback, and a myriad of other financial woes hanging around out there. $49 may be the number That would be close to $97MM in revenue
    • Now  that's the ticket...    ....Say that's a ticket idea  for aspiring  WBers.  With pride, I was part of a group of scouters that built a latrine.  It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far,far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known. A lot of Field of Dream whisper lines during construction.   
    • I've switched to quilts from Feathered Friends and Enlightened Equipment.  When it's cold, I use the attachment strap on my sleeping pad.  If it's warm, I can open it up. The underside of a sleeping bag provides no insulation because your body compresses it, eliminating all loft.  All insulation comes from the pad.
    • The cost just to be counted as a "Scout" or "Scouter" at $100 I do see as a deal breaker for some for sure.  We've been discussing in our TC the ramifications- we'd love to offer assistance to families if indeed it is that big of a jump, but short of rolling in more fund-raising there's a limit of what we can offer.  Our CO is tapped.  We don't want to have fund-raising to start to overtake time spent on activities.  In my view, the community is pretty tapped on those peddling to them.  As we have historically covered the cost of registered adults, this could be a big jump to our budget, and I'm beginning to have conversations with those who are only minor contributors - I can't justify paying a $100 for someone that comes only to handful of meetings, never camps, etc.  I'm inclined to have them register as a MB counselor (assuming those are still free) just so I know YPT is being tracked. 
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