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  2. Treflienne

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    I would argue that the younger teen and pre-teen girls don't really understand how people react to what they are wearing -- they are just wanting to look "in", and probably care a lot more about what their female friends think that about what boys think. What I don't understand is the parents who don't advise/enforce appropriate clothing for their girls. These kids are not driving themselves to the store to buy their clothing with money they earned themselves.
  3. Treflienne

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    Actually, they had tried modernizing, repeatedly, especially starting in the early 1970's and continuing into the 1980's. Those uniforms were terrible. I really did not appreciate being mistaken for a flight attendant when in uniform.
  4. Treflienne

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    But what scale is appropriate at what age? I still like the old version of the Brownie Promise "I promise to do my best to love God and my country, to help other people every day, especialy those at home." This was for up to age 9, and helping at home was something that girls could really do. In the newer program, the Junior Journey "Agent of Change" (for girls starting at age 9) is encouraging civic action. An example that is held up as a model is persuading other people to volunteer at an animal shelter. I'd rather the younger scouts get in the habit of actualy helping people, not just badgering other people to help.
  5. Treflienne

    Scout Law

    Nine. The first nine points of the BSA law summarizes these nine (at least if you think that "Kind" summarized "A Friend to Animals".
  6. qwazse

    Scout Law

    I think they kind of cluster together, but this is just me. Like @SSScout said, they are tuned to the American ear of a century ago. Trustworthy, Loyal, and Helpful are for citizenship Friendly, Courteous, and Kind are interpersonal Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty speak to being mentally awake Brave, Clean, and Reverent speak to physical strength and moral rectitud. I don't know if there is any intent in the order, but it seems that I do see them appear in boys on a deeper-than-surface level in roughly that sequence.
  7. Eagledad

    Scout Law

    What a great question. I have not thought of them that way, but it makes sense. Trustworthy and loyal are traits of integrity. Do the rest of the points have any value without integrity? Helpful, friendly, courteous and kind are action’s of the heart. They prove the scouts actions are serving, not self-serving. Obedient, cheerful, thrifty are qualities of character strength. Brave, clean and reverence are strengths of nobility. That’s Barry’s idealistic analogy, but it wasn’t hard. Of course the scouts likely don’t care, but the three (😁), excuse me, four Aims weren’t high on their list either. Barry
  8. SSScout

    Scout Law

    Is there any significance to the order of the English alphabet? It just sort of happened, I think. Except for "z". As for the Scout Law, (nice question), it varies from country to country. BSA has 12 points, Australia has ten. Denmark has 5 (!). Not all have "Reverent" but all the ones I have seen start with "Trustworthy" or some equivalent. It is an interesting study. Look up B-P's original, it only had 8, I think. Why that order? Some early Scout leader (Seton? West? bound to be some apocryphal story) wrote'm down and there they were.... Can you be trusted to kindly wash your hands before cooking? Helpfully passing out cheerful portions to your loyal friends, who will thriftily not waste any after reverently giving thanks for the courteous way you served it up? Well, they were brave to obediently eat YOUR cooking when asked to table....
  9. desertrat77

    Scout Law

    @Greek15, welcome to scouter.com!
  10. Yesterday
  11. Greek15

    Scout Law

    Is there any significants to the ORDER of the 12 points of the Scout Law?
  12. perdidochas

    Boys-only weeks at camp

    Edit: Decided not to comment.
  13. David CO

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    Yes, that is the philosophical question, but there are also some practical concerns. Our public schools were recently offered the opportunity to have a Spring Swim Night for each of our schools as a special after-school activity. The school board declined the generous offer, citing the anticipated difficulties they might face with inappropriate swimwear, and with students/parents taking on the role of social activists by loudly protesting the perceived body-shaming of girls. They did a roller skating party instead. I suspect that the only result we will get from such social activism is fewer fun activities for the kids.
  14. qwazse

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    Far be it from me to tell GS/USA what issues its girls and parents should address. It may be that this issue is confounding lots of GS Juniors, so their moms invited discussion. I'm certain some girls earned GS awards for tackling this issue in their school. So, maybe the organization provided helps to parents in similar situations -- suggesting ways that this could be a skills-acquisition moment. I've seen Bryan's blog write up similar topics on behalf of BSA and invite lots of discussion. But, I'm puzzled as to why someone payed for it to appear as a sponsored link on FB. Maybe GS/USA thinks that this was the kind of thing that would motivate others to follow its other posts? Maybe they just wanted to generate buzz ... good or bad? I guess, given that I posted here, they at least accomplished that.
  15. fred8033

    Trailer Recommendation

    Wow!!! That's a beast. Cool and fun to have, but still a beast. How well does it do getting pulled ?
  16. Eagledad

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    Isn't civic action just actions at a larger scale? If all decisions are based from the Scout Law, then all actions are likely servant. I think what qwazse is saying (I could be wrong) is that the GSUSA shouldn't be encouraging scouts to act toward any specific (GSUSA sponsored) issue because they could have a different perspective locally. Teach the scouts to be responsible and learn all the specifics of the issue, any issue and they will make the right decision on this one. Barry
  17. MacBrave

    Trailer Recommendation

    The best recent picture I could quickly find of our troop's trailer. It's approximately 25 years old and the frame was custom built by a local metal fabricator. The rest of the trailer is mostly wood, designed and mostly built by our long time committee chair. It has a "kitchen" side, a "gear" side, and the back area is for general storage. Was originally painted a light green, with nice scouts graphics, chartered org. info etc. But after about 20 years that had faded pretty badly so the wood was sealed with a white wash. Still haven't gotten around to repainting, for a number of reasons.
  18. PinkPajamas

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    I think this article is in line with their no uniform policy. Girls complained about their terribly regressive and unpractical uniforms and instead of modernizing, GSUSA got rid of uniforms. They think other organizations should/would listen and respond in a similar fashion. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re seeing this surface again because GSUSA thinks no uniforms/no dress code is a selling point when compared to BSA. I remember complaining up a storm every time I had to put on my brown skirt and tights with the ugly orange bow tie 🤢completely different than my daughter who thought her blue uniform was awesome and is jumping at the bit to go to the bsa shop and get her tan and green. I’m sure the thinking is girls hated our uniforms therefor they’ll hate all uniforms.
  19. ParkMan

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    It would seem that the philosophical question is - "who is responsible for the sexualitzation of girls bodies?" Is it the girls who wear revealing clothes, or is it the boys who respond to the girls choice of clothing? I imagine that most people would say - both. It probably also leads to a more general discussion of appropriate vs. inappropriate clothing and how the determiniation of what is appropriate is made. You could even then bring in a historical context - i.e., there was a time is was a scandal to see a woman's ankles. Now, no-one thinks twice about it. I'd agree with @qwazse - you want to focus on both. For me, I think we want to get Scouts thinking about how they make their own determination of what is right and wrong. Once they decide right and wrong, what they do with that knowledge is the big question. Ultimately, deciding what to do is a big part of leadership.
  20. Eagledad

    Trailer Recommendation

    This is what we did when our troop got to about 80 scouts. A troop in our district of 120 scouts showed us the advantages of using multiple smaller 6X8 trailers. The trailers can be pulled by mini vans if need. We are a back packing troop, so we encourage the patrols to take their own gear, mostly back packs if they can. If they can't their patrol QM contacts the Troop QM to request space in the trailer. The Troop QM is trained and responsible for the trailers, including keys. We typically only need one trailer to haul gear like troop tents, patrol tubs, shovels and dutch ovens. Mostly gear the patrols don't use on the trail. The real advantage of small multiple trailers is duri ng multiple troop activities. We do a lot of high adventure, so I is nice to having multiple trailers, especially with at least one smaller trailer that minivan can pull. Barry
  21. Jameson76

    Trailer Recommendation

    Keep the trailer small. We have an 80 person troop, camp with 30 - 40 most of the time. Trailer is (Interior) 7.5' L x 5.0' W x 5.5' H, single axle. Double doors on the back. Shelves down one side and then the floor holds the large patrol boxes. Can hold easily adult gear, the six patrol boxes, 7 tables (they fold), 8 tarps, and assorted random gear. Trailer can be hauled with SUV's and does not need any special setup. For summer camp we only haul trunks and it can take 18 - 20 of those. We bring another trailer for additional trunks Main thing (as many have said) look at tongue weight, hauling weight, special brakes hook up etc. Sort of like your basement, the larger the trailer the more stuff you will bring Don't fall into the trap of a trailer that cannot be hauled with the majority of vehicles the troop may have access to now AND going forward
  22. mashmaster

    Trailer Recommendation

    Recommend getting a trailer that can be towed by an F150 style pickup. That is a problem to expect people to have bigger trucks to tow the trailer and if you don't have one you have a trailer that can't get towed. It also is a strain on the vehicles. Also, we liked having a side door and two doors in the back vs. the single fold down door. We found a used trailer from a troop in the area that didn't need it anymore. Got a good deal. It might be worthwhile checking around to see if any troops have an extra trailer.
  23. mashmaster

    Hello from Columbus

    Welcome from Austin, Texas
  24. scoutmaster759

    Hello from Columbus

    Ha - I took the Scouts to Mohican State Park this weekend and as seems to be par for the course with every campout in the last 7 years - it rained, hard. So the Scout skills changed from planning for a hike with a significant rise to starting a fire in the rain. All sorts of fire starters - none of them worked. So the old man (me) said, "Boys, you're not building this thee right way. You need a tepee shape and the right starter" So of course in my backpack I have three small sticks of "pipestone" wood. I put my twigs together, kindling and the pipestone and then arrange all of the wood for easy access and staying dry under a tarp. Three strikes on flint with steel and a pocket of lint and the fire took off. You would think I was Harry Potter.... campfire. I think the boys now know two things: "pipestone" is common around us - use it and the tepee is the fastest way to go.
  25. scoutmaster759

    Hello from Columbus

    That is well said - "Will you be around for our Scouts" My two sons are in the Boy Scout troop but the oldest will age out next year and the youngest struggles at times but the unit is being built for the community, not just for us. I keep telling parents that they should "own it" and they will get more from it. Lack of parent involvement is an issue in the urban setting with single family parent and 3 kids or more.
  26. qwazse

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    We had to deal with this as parents. Femurs grew, skirt didn't. The principle was doing his best to handle things discretely. Even so Mrs. Q took umbrage. Daughter wasn't offended, but also didn't think she had much agency in the situation. So, I understand the emotion. I just want to hear from an organization who is partnering with me recognize that my family (including children) might be in favor of their school's dress code -- and share advice on how I may help my daughter enter into this dialogue. With youth, always promote both civic action and servant leadership. Middle school kids often see things going on in a community that other folks miss. Their playground/pool might be impacted by budget cuts. There might be a dangerous intersection on the way to school. Or, a newly elected public official might need to know the issues important to youth.
  27. fred8033

    Trailer Recommendation

    Good choice. Of course, I'm laughing. Sometimes column advice doesn't match the needs of the original poster. I was far off. Of course, now your troop will require new scoutmasters to own a 3/4 ton pickup. Your choice is fine and makes sense. With a 80 person troop, I'd be tempted to have two trailers to support multiple events or allow people with smaller vehicles to help pull the trailer. I've always thought some months might be nice to split the troop (when we were larger). Those interested (younger patrols ??) could go to the district camporee and the more adventurous patrols could do a hiking trip or canoe trip. You might want to keep your existing trailer to support smaller events or to store less-used gear.
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  • Posts

    • I would argue that the younger teen and pre-teen girls don't really understand how people react to what they are wearing -- they are just wanting to look "in", and probably care a lot more about what their female friends think that about what boys think.    What I don't understand is the parents who don't advise/enforce appropriate clothing for their girls.   These kids are not driving themselves to the store to buy their clothing with money they earned themselves.  
    • Actually, they had tried modernizing, repeatedly, especially starting in the early 1970's and continuing into the 1980's.   Those uniforms were terrible. I really did not appreciate being mistaken for a flight attendant when in uniform. 
    • But what scale is appropriate at what age?   I still like the old version of the Brownie Promise "I promise to do my best to love God and my country, to help other people every day, especialy those at home."   This was for up to age 9, and helping at home was something that girls could really do. In the newer program, the Junior Journey "Agent of Change" (for girls starting at age 9)  is encouraging civic action.   An example that is held up as a model is persuading other people to volunteer at an animal shelter.   I'd rather the younger scouts get in the habit of actualy helping people, not just badgering other people to help.
    • Nine.  The first nine points of the BSA law summarizes these nine (at least if you think that "Kind" summarized "A Friend to Animals".  
    • I think they kind of cluster together, but this is just me. Like @SSScout said, they are tuned to the American ear of a century ago.  Trustworthy, Loyal, and Helpful are for citizenship Friendly, Courteous, and Kind are interpersonal Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty speak to being mentally awake Brave, Clean, and Reverent speak to physical strength and moral rectitud. I don't know if there is any intent in the order, but it seems that I do see them appear in boys on a deeper-than-surface level in roughly that sequence.  
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