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Regarding bathrooms/showers, etc ... Do your troops take it in rotation to clean your camp's showers? I know as a scout up until a few years ago mine did. Heck, I built* my camps' latrine. *Okay, "built" was quite a stretch ... kinda like how Al Gore and I built this here internet ... but my limited involvement in latrine assembly was because of a sudden bout of flu. It was mostly scouts slapping up posts and plywood while I huddled in a corner fighting chills.
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The question will be, or National will try to push, is what is that breaking point? Is it $50, is it $60?? When will the frogs in the water in the slowly warming pot say "Wow, it's getting HOT" and jump out of the pot?
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I can not speak for everyone, but $100 recharter fee is a deal breaker for me, I have a Bear, I have a daughter who I am working on creating a Scouts BSA Troop in town, I am a leader as is my wife. We are not paying $400 a year just to send to National.
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Yes, I am in the NFC. We were there the last week of June up in Campsite 19. Since it was out in the middle of no where is why we believe the bathrooms there were so nice. But the one down near the handicraft shelter and dining hall wasn't that bad considering it was a high volume usage.
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Well, we are both Floridian's, but it looks like you are just north of me, in North Florida Council. I am in Central Florida Council, and was referring to the set up at Camp La-No-Che. We were at Woodruff in July of 18. That was the camp that labeled the adult showers as for both adult and for female youth. There were quite a few of them in the block we used, so there were no issues (also, if I remember correctly, there were no female units that used that particular shower block) Daniel Boone had a shower house with 18 individual rooms; I think that the fact that they all had locking doors is why there was no male/female distinction made.
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Camp Shands is much nicer than it used to be. Echockotee still has light years to go on getting enough restrooms. One campsite has a bathroom that hasn't worked in years. So it means that multiple campsites are using 1 women's restroom and if someone is taking a shower in there, you can forget it. For some events they bring in porta potty's. In Florida, you want to avoid those as much as possible. Its interesting to see from council to council how the restrooms are. 2 summers ago we went to Rainey Mountain and to me the bathrooms were not that great. My son complained that in the boys shower that several times, someone had pooped in the shower and there were other "bodily fluids" in there also. We went to Woodruff this past summer and it was so much nicer and a lot more private bathrooms and showers. Very clean. I just feel like the BSA isn't remembering the scout law in some of their decisions. How are we supposed to be thrifty when given very little notice about a rate increase? How is that courteous and trustworthy to families? It hurts potential loyalty also. Why should we trust that it wont just go up every year?
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National's reputation with polls and surveys precedes them. Barry
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How to start a new BSA unit (draft—please comment!)
ParkMan replied to Calion's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Hi @Calion, This is a great list! I really like all the details at each step. Like others, I think that there will be a lot of fluidity in the ordering of the steps. Yes - there is a basic order to this, but depending on the strengths of the group and your particular situation, you may choose to do things in a difference sequence. One way I think about this is in the terms of basic goals a unit's team needs to accomplish. If I think of the goals I'd use then map your steps into it, I get: Make your plans 1. Decide what kind of unit you want to start Find a CO 2. Find a chartering organization. 3. Appoint a Chartered Organization Representative. Build your adult core team 4. Appoint a Committee Chair. 5. Get trained. 6. Recruit a Troop Committee. 7. Train the Troop Committee. 8. Select and recruit adult leaders. 9. Train the adult leaders. 10. Complete Youth Protection Training. 11. Get uniformed. Setup the unit’s infrastructure 12. Establish an online presence. 13. File the paperwork. 14. Present the Charter 17. Raise money. Recruit youth & get going 15. Recruit Scouts. 16. Have your first troop meeting. 18. Get the Scouts trained. 19. Set the Scouts loose. Continue to improve 20. Keep learning. 21. Have fun! While I think things will generally go in this order, I do believe that if you've got more than one or two adults, you might break this up into some parallel efforts. For example - a couple of folks could be working on adult recruiting while some others are getting the website & paperwork started. -
In many cases I would agree; fortunately, not in all cases.
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I work in the research field and, more then than not, polls and survey results are often interpreted to support a pre-desired vision. Barry
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I agree with the 'don't wait until the last minute' thing, and what it does to those of us who have to stand in front of a room full of parents and or Scouters and explain that we are not the ones to be throwing stones at when these things are announced just before taking effect. My DC and I were on the way to a meeting at the council office this past Sunday, and were in agreement that if there absolutely has to be a fee increase, it should wait until re-charter time NEXT year. I do at times wish there was something better than popcorn to raise funding that helps both the troop and the council. I know how tough it is to ask someone to throw down $30 for a bag of popcorn, and still keep a straight face. I also do see the direct results that some of that money that makes it to the council, in the form of camp improvements, scholarships, etc; so I and my Scout get out there and sell as much as possible. I have been to many camps that need to do better with restrooms/showers, not just for female Scouts, but just in general. This summer's out of state camp had shower rooms that were a considerable walk from the campsite, and nothing designating male/female usage, despite several girl troops being in camp that week. Last summer, we were in a camp that also had very large shower blocks shared by several campsites. They had put up signs on the row of adult only showers designating them as for both adults and female youth. Our local council camp (and based on some of your posts, @Jackdaws, I believe we are in the same council) has restroom/shower facilities in each campsite, so if we have a female unit in camp, they already have their own showers. Granted, it is limited to 2 showers, 2 toilets, and 2 urinals in each site, but most other camps I have been to, troops would love to have that available. As to anyone reading the surveys, I have to believe that someone does. I know that I go online and read the comments in surveys submitted by school staff after they attend training. I want to know if they feel my instructors are doing a good job, and if they feel that there are any changes we need to look at before the next session.
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I know. The 'scouting is a great value' statement always has my eyes rolling. While scouting isn't more costly than other organizations or activities, it's not cheaper and there are lot of hidden costs in it in terms of not only material and activities but also time and energy. Don't even get me started about FOS or about volunteers who have to "pay" to volunteer.
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I thought that to. LOL
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How to start a new BSA unit (draft—please comment!)
Treflienne replied to Calion's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Absolutely. We did what we could, when we could. Some things we had to wait on that were beyond our control - for example, one potential CO was not be able to consider the idea of taking on a new troop until after they had completed a change of institutional head. So we did what we could, when we could, while hoping that the other things would eventually work out. For much of 2018 we did not know whether we would really get a troop up and running. -
Our lodge has not published a camping guide. You can see where this is going!
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When I was on the council Cub Scout committee, I noted that the #1 council camp for Cubs did not meet standards since it did not have showers. Was told the camp was grandfathered and had a waiver by the pro advisor for program. He stated if someone really wanted a shower, he would rig up a portable camp shower for them to use. Since the OA is an approved council document, many packs assume the camps listed are approved.
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Agree on the incomplete. As a unit we take the Eagle applications to the office, (pre-EBOR) then hang around until completed. We review them prior and even so, there is sometimes a date that does not work out right. We correct it right there. If we weren't there, I can see that application being put aside, e-mails sent (maybe), etc etc and it getting buried
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I bet they won't send you anymore surveys now.
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My council is notorious for losing paperwork. Most often, it isn't lost per se. More that the form is lacking some information or something is incomplete or not checked off, so instead of communicating the situation back to the unit/individual, they toss it and you have to figure it out months later and submit new paperwork. And likewise, even when it is received and processed, that isn't always updated on the right systems. Add the fact that some committees are horrible at following the status of things online and you can have situations where a leader is not official registered for over a year, even after paying rechartering etc. So ask me how I feel this whole re-do of background checks are going to go? My troop wasn't aware it was going to happen and as of last week, they didn't have a plan for a mass collection of the forms etc. I can see units having big problems with lost background checks.
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How to start a new BSA unit (draft—please comment!)
Calion replied to Calion's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Would you suggest any changes then? -
Will your scout wear a uniform to school on Oct 16?
desertrat77 replied to mrkstvns's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I think it depends on the community's support for scouting. Even in pro-scouting communities, I don't predict much participation. I hope I'm wrong. I think the initiative has great intent. But kids quit wearing their uniforms to school back in the early '70s. The other dynamic about bullying is the lack of teacher and administrator support for prevention. And lack of suitable, behavior-changing consequences for bullying. Yes, it seems odd, but I found that many teachers and principals turn a blind eye to bullying. Prevention receives all of the right words, but in actual practice, bullying was pervasive in the school where I taught. Many teachers ignored it either because they didn't want to deal with it, or they knew from past experience that even if they dealt with it or elevated it to the principals, it would all be swept under the carpet. Or the consequences were so light, it didn't change behavior. Bullies know their environment, and there are few punishments administered in schools today that encourage them to change their ways. -
I don't agree with the idea that $1000/year is still a great deal. It may be a great deal for those kids that are on crazy competitive soccer, or marching band, or mill your own robot parts. The parents of these kids can more easily afford this. But scouting is supposed to be for all kids. In the land of under employed, $1000/year is still a lot of money. Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. Maybe it would be better if the BSA just filed chapter 11 now. I'm optimistic enough about scouting that something good will come up from the ashes. Again, the problem isn't scouting.
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I brought up the subject of fee increases to the SM/COR in my troop and they had no idea it was coming. Desertrat77 and I share the same council, so I'm thankful he stated that council is clueless. At least now I know why my troop hasn't heard anything yet. My troop and myself like so many others, can not generally absorb sudden fee increases. I tend to do long term planning to avoid the sudden major fees, like summer camp. If I plan on going next year, I drop $20 a month into my scout account so that I can stay ahead of the wave. However when my son was in scouting, we didn't do that for him though we should have. My troop already charges the scouts more than the standard $33 for recharter. I don't know how parents will react to a substantial increase.
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No SE, national or council wide should see a raise or bonus for this year or the next till everyone sees how it all plays out. Its reminiscent of the government bailout of 2008 where we footed the bill but the big wig CEO's of those companies still got bonuses and came out smelling like a rose but their company and employees took the brunt of the mess. If our troop camps every month next year and my son and I both go it would cost me about $600 for just for the food costs. Depending on where we camp if there are fees. It will be more. Then you have our current monthly dues of $10 so that makes it $720. Add another $600+ for summer camp and transportation costs we are at over $1300. If we go to a district camporee or University of Scouting, that's another $100+. Factor in a few other events and maybe a uniform part and we are at minimum $2,000 a year and that is not including the current membership fee. That's a lot of money just for 2 people to participate in something if you ask me. I agree with the "we should not have to pay for past sins" of abuse. I am very sorry and appalled it happened for those involved. But the BSA should have been saving their pennies over the years for payouts instead of churning out stuff like Scouter magazine. I enjoy reading it but it takes maybe 20 min. at most to read and I could do so online for free. God only knows how much it costs to produce it and mail it out.
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The sobering part may be all the units that have NOT begun working through the math. They got the note but are assuming it will be another $10 - $12 increase. Suppose you are a NEW unit, just bee bopping along, planning for next year fun and adventures, etc etc. You know the fee is $33 now, you've got 10 Scouts and maybe 6 leaders, so you have the $528 ready, possibly hedged about $160 for the increase. BUT WAIT - you will actually need (worst case) $1,600 or an additional $1,072 in total. This will be a shock to the system. Also if it does go to worst case, now new Scouts will need to pony up a big chunk. If you join Tigers with your young-un, and want to be a leader, that will be maybe $200. More if there are Unit dues. Will be tough. Family Scouting will be replaced by Ghost Leaders. We'll sign up the minimum, everyone else is a visiting parent.
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Posts
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Regarding bathrooms/showers, etc ... Do your troops take it in rotation to clean your camp's showers? I know as a scout up until a few years ago mine did. Heck, I built* my camps' latrine. *Okay, "built" was quite a stretch ... kinda like how Al Gore and I built this here internet ... but my limited involvement in latrine assembly was because of a sudden bout of flu. It was mostly scouts slapping up posts and plywood while I huddled in a corner fighting chills. -
The question will be, or National will try to push, is what is that breaking point? Is it $50, is it $60?? When will the frogs in the water in the slowly warming pot say "Wow, it's getting HOT" and jump out of the pot? -
By 5thGenTexan · Posted
I can not speak for everyone, but $100 recharter fee is a deal breaker for me, I have a Bear, I have a daughter who I am working on creating a Scouts BSA Troop in town, I am a leader as is my wife. We are not paying $400 a year just to send to National. -
Yes, I am in the NFC. We were there the last week of June up in Campsite 19. Since it was out in the middle of no where is why we believe the bathrooms there were so nice. But the one down near the handicraft shelter and dining hall wasn't that bad considering it was a high volume usage. -
Well, we are both Floridian's, but it looks like you are just north of me, in North Florida Council. I am in Central Florida Council, and was referring to the set up at Camp La-No-Che. We were at Woodruff in July of 18. That was the camp that labeled the adult showers as for both adult and for female youth. There were quite a few of them in the block we used, so there were no issues (also, if I remember correctly, there were no female units that used that particular shower block) Daniel Boone had a shower house with 18 individual rooms; I think that the fact that they all had locking doors is why there was no male/female distinction made.
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