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  2. As everyone can see there are many different and valid ways to do this, and many believe strongly in their views. This is great because it confirms the importance of our chosen volunteer work. One circumstance I will note is that leaders of all-girl troops are particularly tasked to simultaneously start up a unit and provide concentrated attention to these older girls. I think utilizing the advantages of top-notch summer camp staff and programs Can be a smart way for new girl troops to go. But I recognize these other approaches as very good.
  3. RememberSchiff

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    I appreciate the courteous and wise advice given by many of our veteran members in that discussion. Thanks. Maybe in time... RS
  4. Today
  5. Eagledad

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    This is the silent motto for the BSA adult leaders. Thanks Saltface, it’s perfect. To bad the adult leading the discussion of fast-tracking girls to Eagle can’t get it. Barry
  6. Really? A sixteen year old can earn two or three MBs a month, meet the caring adults in her community at her convenience, use some of those learning experiences to enhance the life of her patrol and troop, be in control of her own destiny, have all the badges she needs plus a few for insta-palms by year's end ... and you think "extra summer camps" is a good idea? That's not being prepared. What if she can't go to more than one BSA camp? What if she goes, and hates it because all she has is MB classes that she doesn't care about. What if she goes and likes only one MB because that camp is ansolute best at teaching it and only wants to take that one again and again and again. What if she goes, and your venturer tells her about a really awesome two-week super activity that a crew she knows is doing next year? And, this is really important: your new adults have more to offer through their jobs and hobbies than they realize. If you endorse some stranger's MB program over their ability to provide unique opportunities for your troop, you are giving a vote of no-confidence to the people who will be keeping your program afloat for years to come. This is not a hypothetical. I've made lots of plans with older teens ... all of them were extremely diverse ... none of them involved extra weeks as participants at summer camp. They didn't all end aging out with Eagle rank, but they all achieved the aims of scouting. If after week 1, this scout really likes summer camp, let her know about additional weeks she may attend. But, don't link that with advancement.
  7. RememberSchiff

    2018 Philmont Wildfires

    Update Easter, 2019 "There's just a real sense of loss, kind of a grieving process so to speak," said Roger Hoyt, a longtime Scout leader and Philmont's general manager. "But at the end of the day, nature does renew itself and I think from the tragedy and the heartache comes this sense of renewal and opportunity." More than a half-million dollars already has been raised and the rebuilding effort is well underway with the installation of 85 new campsites and work to shore up some of the ash-covered hillsides. Crews were sidelined in January due to snow, but work has resumed in the lower elevations as the clock ticks down for the start of the summer season. And it will be a banner season with a record number of Scouts — possibly as many as 24,000 — expected to pass through Philmont, Hoyt said. Some of them initially planned to make the trek in 2018 but were derailed due to the fire and the subsequent closure of the backcountry. With nearly one-fifth of Philmont blackened, the ranch is not alone in its new mission to become more resilient as western land managers face larger and hotter wildfires fueled by overgrown forests and dry conditions. In 2018, more than 8.7 million acres (13,594 square miles) burned across the U.S., with most of that being in the West, according to the National Interagency Fire Center . Records were broken in California, which marked its deadliest and most destructive blaze in November as the town of Paradise was destroyed and 85 people were killed. Scientists have said the 2018 season was part of a longer trend of larger and more frequent fires in the western United States. In New Mexico, more than 382,000 acres (597 square miles) burned in 2018 and the state has seen its largest and most destructive fires on record within the last decade. Hoyt estimates Philmont Scout Ranch will spend $1 million in the next year on conservation and fire mitigation projects. That includes addressing silt that's washing down from barren slopes to clearing fuel from the forest floor, thinning trees and creating fuel breaks to keep fires from racing across other parts of the ranch. While the work is relatively low-cost, it's labor intensive, Hoyt said. In March alone, 140 volunteers spent over 6,000 hours on fire mitigation and restoration projects. Within two years, he hopes pockets of the burned area can be used as an outdoor classroom for visiting Scouts. Source: https://www.sent-trib.com/news/boy-scout-ranch-focuses-on-wildfire-recovery-as-season-nears/article_ba903786-63c6-11e9-ba06-3f0b01a7c243.html
  8. Thunderbird: Thanks for the specific “catches” on merit badges and rank requirements that have time requirements that need advance attention. This is the kind of thing we need these youth to be aware of. Qwaze: The multiple weeks of summer camp is good for merit badge completion — especially for the previously “unscouted” girl. Our 7 weekend campouts will give them plenty of chance to compile the 20 nights. Great overall thoughts. keep the ideas flowing folks. When we have covered it enough I will compile a one-page summary and post it broadly.
  9. Liz

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    My oldest Scout did the same. Wore a swim shirt at all swimming events including indoor pools where sunburn was not an issue. Said it was a modesty issue. I never understood... until she came out as a trans woman around age 21. Turns out she was uncomfortable showing her chest because inside she identified as and felt like a girl and it didn't feel right. I'm of course not suggesting that this is the reason for any other person, just an example that people may have a variety of "concealed" reasons for doing what they do. My 2nd Scout always wore a swim shirt outdoors for sun protection. Maybe this kid is like mine and hates the feeling of sunscreen, but doesn't want to admit it for some reason. 🤷‍♀️
  10. Saltface

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    That’s either a personal interpretation or he was concealing his true reason. I’ve never met anyone that felt that way. What I was hoping to communicate with my original response is that I would prefer to go to the Oath and Law for guidance over the GSS for a question like this. In other words, “Teach them correct principles and [let them] govern themselves.”
  11. @Cburkhardt, I think any other scout's particular written plan could send your scouts down a very wrong path -- especially if it winds up clashing with their interests. These older teens can review the requirements and plan for themselves. The venturer, especially should by now be skilled at back-dating from a target date to schedule a series of steps towards completion of an adventure. Most camp staff have similar opportunities, plus they should know how blue cards work. Scout C is a wild card. You almost certainly need to listen carefully to her interests and have her start on an MB of interest to her with a counselor you trust. Then when she comes back with her first blue card, you will have data to let her know if she needs to pick up the pace to stay on track. For mature scouts, I always suggest that they be working on an elective and required MB every month. Most scouts this age would do well with personal management, personal fitness, and family life. Weekend campouts are a must if they want to earn Camping MB in 18 months. Really, they only need to attend one summer camp so they can rack up 6 camping nights. Everything else they need for advancement they should do on weekends or evenings with their troop, patrol, or their friends. Your next few SMCs will tell a whole lot more about where to direct them than any timetable that someone claims worked for their scouts.
  12. Some things to keep in mind: Cyber Chip (rank requirement for Scout and Star): Requires Scouts to write and sign a personalized contact with a parent / guardian and also to have a discussion with parents. Fitness requirements: Tenderfoot - practice & track for 30+ days Second Class - at least 30 minutes per day for 5 days a week for 4 weeks [must be done after completing TF #6c.] First Class - at least 30 minutes per day for 5 days a week for 4 weeks [must be done after completing SC #7a.] Merit badges to watch out for: Family Life - Track chores for 90 days. Personal Fitness - Outline a fitness program and track fitness for 12 weeks. Personal Management - Track income, expenses, and savings for 13 consecutive weeks. Camping - 20 nights of camping with specific requirements (cabin camping doesn't count). 6 nights at summer camp can count if the Scout sleeps under the sky or in a tent. Cooking - Not really difficult, but has some specific requirements that Scouts need to be aware of and follow. As far as leadership positions of responsibility go, there are around 15 PORs that count for purposes of the Eagle Scout rank, and some of them can be held by more than one Scout at the same time (Instructor, Den Chief, ASPL, one Patrol Leader per patrol, etc.). So, the SPL can make troop-level appointments (in consultation with the Scoutmaster) and make sure that Scouts who need PORs for a particular rank get one. Something else that can help with PORs is to have 6 month terms of office instead of 12 months.
  13. Thanks to the over 700 who have visited this posting in the last 24 hours. Understanding how to best provide advice on this is a concern shared by many. We are going to deliver on this. And, Happy Easter to everyone of you, regardless of your faith. There is a clear need to provide guidance on basic scheduling and requirements/leadership sequencing to meritorious older young men and woman who have been presented the opportunity to advance through Scouting’s ranks during this exceptional period. Thanks to those who had useful prioritization thoughts to offer. To those who seemingly think that these young people should figure out how to do this entirely on their own, let me tell you that we are going to provide Scoutmasterly advice so that those who want to have as much of the scouting experience they can — and maybe even earn Eagle — can do so in an organized manner and not be crushed by failing to catch one of our elaborate rules. I have been considering it and believe the critical timing issue is to immediately start earning the merit badges this and next summer. I believe at least three combined weeks at a first-rate council camp with a broad variety of offerings is the way to go. Our 2 girls who have gobs of experience in BSA as tag-alongside, Venturers and camp staff will each spend 2 weeks this summer at camp and probably one more next year. The “unscouted” girl will have a more gradual start, because we need to see her learn and master the basics. She will work merit badges as well and spend a week with us during our Troop visit to our council camp. Next year she will likely need to do 2 weeks at camp. For all 3 girls we will spend a lot of time to assure they are learning and exercising leadership and serve the requisite time in officerships. That some of these girls are going to college during this period presents a logistical challenge. As I noted earlier, we have one girl leaving our area. She will dual register with a troop in her college town to continue her work while away — especially her leadership roles. And, we are receiving a long-time venturer in our city who will attend college here. She and her parents are well along the way on all of this. Because our Troop meets on Saturday mornings it will work well for her school schedule. Her mother is also an experienced commissioner. Do not hesitate to have your professionals assist to find a destination college town troop for your young person. The third girl will live here and do her Scouting work with us as a junior and senior in high school. Again, if any of you and your scouts have reduced to writing a sample schedule for rank, merit badge and leadership service, please post it for others to see. I am aware that some good templates have been developed. I will share our details as we develop them.
  14. Yesterday
  15. So...not to do a disservice to the journey, and it is each Scout's journey, basic project management, if you have hard stop to achieve something you will need a plan. We had an older teen (15 and 8 months) join the troop a couple of years ago. Mainly he wanted to attend high adventure with friends in the troop. As he did attend one high adventure and then camp (as a "new" scout) we talked about what he wanted to do in Scouting. Long story short, we backdated a plan for when HE would need to attain various ranks. HE would have to do this, HE would need to attend our second summer camps to get enough optional merit badges, HE would need to serve in the leadership, HE would need to propose, plan, and perform a project. Fast forward, he is 18 in maybe 90 days. He has earned his 21 merit badges, served as JASM in the troop and at summer camps, went to high adventure, went to outings, and just got his project approved. Should wrap up before 18th birthday. It can be done if THEY want to earn it, see the value, and you can support the journey.
  16. The Latin Scot

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    I would guess it's something his parents or family must have taught him, or perhaps even just a personal conviction. But having lived my whole life deeply invested in LDS culture and religion, I would still find it unusual for a boy to think thusly - but I have tremendous respect for him if he does. And that's the point. We have to consider the sensitivities of all who might be witnesses to such a (frankly) tasteless little number as the dreaded JCPenny Skit. I was a pretty tender little Scout, and I DESPISED the skit precisely because I found watching boys go around in their underwear to be immodest and unseemly. Making other Scouts feel uncomfortable for any reason is bad enough. Now factor in today's social climate, where supervising adults watching boys in underwear is a grave subject of controversy to be guarded against, and then add in the fact that young women will now be included in most of these events, and you are playing with fire in a vat of already-burning oil. When in doubt, don't do it. Simple. There are a million other skits they can do; why not encourage them to explore other options so we can finally brush this long-standing, pitiful attempt at 'humor' under the rug.
  17. As I am familiarizing myself with the rank advancment materials, one thing that has impressed me is that every rank along the way to Eagle is worthwhile for its own sake. So if an idealistic new scout says "I want to earn eagle" but ends up not doing so, then she still benefitted from as much of the journey as she did. Work on improving your physical fitness? Great. Learn to swim? Super. Try taking on a leadership role in the troop? Valuable experience. It seems to me that we should help each scout grow starting from where they are at -- but certainly not expect that all will have the desire, or the ability, to reach Eagle. Big difference from GSUSA where the "Journeys" are a prerequisite to working on the Bronze/Silver/Gold Award, and where the attitude towards the "Journeys" is sometimes hold-your-nose-and-get-it-over-with-it -- i.e. some do not see much value in those Journeys for their own sakes.
  18. This is the concern I posted on another discussion thread and I can't tell you how many times I was slapped on the nose with the newspaper. I do hope all the talk of "Eagle, Eagle, Eagle" is just the initial excitement of the girl program but I fear it is not. Most of these girls have not earned Scout or Tenderfoot yet but we are talking about Eagle. I was at our Troop Shed recently which is at our CO location on a Friday evening. They have a large property with a Pavilion and field where they let Scouts camp for free. Our lone girl Troop in the District was going to camp there that weekend. I had to take my son to the lower field because he is putting in a stage at the fire pit for the Scouts to do skits and things and he needed to take some measurements. This is his Eagle Project. As we drove through the area, we noticed two of the Scoutmasters and one mom already there and they had set up the camp kitchens, and tents and already had a stack of chopped wood for the fire. Not a single Scout in sight. That would have been a great opportunity to let the girls do it and check off a bunch of requirements at one event.
  19. This discussion is exactly what many experienced scouters on this forum predicted would happen. The non scouting public identifies Scouting only by the Eagle. And by golly the girls parents are going to get it for them. Greenbar who? Barry
  20. I think this is a grave disservice to any of your girls, or any Scout for that matter, to create a 2 year plan for them in order to earn Eagle. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO CREATE THEIR OWN PLAN AS EACH INDIVIDUAL IS DIFFERENT ( major emphasis). Part of the journey to Eagle is the Scout deciding their own path, the Scout deciding what they want to do, the Scout deciding how they are going to achieve their goals. What have they learned if you hand them a plan?
  21. Not to be a downer here but one thing I don't hear anyone saying is that not everyone earns the Eagle Rank. I get the feeling that people are walking in thinking that every girl is going to earn eagle. Stats show that only 4 of every 100 Scouts earn Eagle. My Troop has been around since 1970 and has produced 82 Eagle Scouts. I have 23 Scouts in my Troop and it is hard enough to get the these guys the positions of Rank each year. I would recommend teaching the Program so they learn the skills and not be so worried about getting badges. Those will come but they need to do the work and learn the skills through First Class as they will be teaching the younger ones the skills. It won't look very good having a Star or Life Scout that can't tell you how to tie knots or treat water for drinking. The Scouts run the Troop not the adults.
  22. Do you have leadership plans for the scouts who will be in college during the later half of the process? I'm not sure how that will work during the extended time rule.
  23. Please post 2-year Eagle plans for boys and girls on a short track. We are seeking schedules and hints on things that need to be “worked from the start”, such as particular required merit badges to present timing pitfalls.
  24. Dear Friends: These are splendid suggestions, and I certainly agree and recommend them to all readers. We anticipate that the Scoutmaster daughter/4-year camp staffer and the 3-year Venturer are good examples of tag-along girls who have probably fully-absorbed the Scouting spirit and have already acquired much of the required First Class skills (which they will have to of course demonstrate mastery of). Both already have their merit badge plans on paper. I am really pleased we will have them to inspire our 11-13 year olds. Their significant growth will probably be on the leadership side of things. Our challenge is the “unscouted” girl who turns 16 this summer and perhaps others that might materialize in the fall. As I have shared elsewhere on this Forum, girls are now seeking us out based on word of mouth, including older ones. What has been pleasing is that there have been no parents or girls showing simply to “gun for Eagle”. We will be working very closely with her and she will be at summer camp with us.
  25. David CO

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    I guess it would depend on the religion. I had an LDS student who always wore a shirt in the pool. He didn't think it was proper for boys to expose their upper torso in public. I don't know if that was just him, or if it was part of his religious training.
  26. The Latin Scot

    Good Ideas for Girls Earning Eagle in 2-3 Years

    It may be encouraging to remember that while 2 years may sound like a tight squeeze, it's not impossible. Scouts have been doing just that for a century - starting at 11 or 12 and earning it at 13 or 14. If they can do it at such tender ages, I'm sure these young women will be even more capable of making it happen, what with their advantages of maturity, desire, and resources. I will express, however, that if a young lady joins a unit with the driving goal of earning the rank of Eagle Scout, she may have already misunderstood the purpose of Scouting. The goal of a Scout should never be "to earn one's Eagle." This overlooks the vast and myriad spectrum of opportunities which Scouting affords our youth, the real goals which are represented by the rank of Eagle Scout, but not beholden to it. Learning how to camp, learning how to vote, learning how to treat a wound. Learning first aid, and communication skills, and crafts and sciences and cultures, becoming invested in the world around them, and using what they learn to help others. Discovering for themselves the possibilities - and responsibilities - of the world around them. Above all, becoming, truly, trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. Those are the true goals of Scouting. So, if you want to give these girls the most that Scouting has to offer, make this focus on personal development your top priority, using the Path to Eagle as a means of organizing, focusing and measuring their personal progress towards becoming better people, but never sacrificing the structure and integrity of its requirements for the sake of "pushing through it." It's a tool towards preparing young people with the vital life skills and knowledge they will need to be effective and honorable adults, and if a Scout follows the advancement program faithfully and diligently, with the goal of absorbing all that they can from the program, then they will have achieved the real achievement of Scouting - becoming a good, moral, contributing part of their families and communities. So, I opine that the single best approach, FOR ALL SCOUTS, is simply to follow the program faithfully, intentionally, and sincerely, using advancement as a tool to help you organize your activities and measure your progress as you work to learn all you can in the time allotted you, but not allowing it to become the reason you Scout. Those early ranks teach the core principles and skills of Scouting. They are not designed for "young Scouts." They are meant for new Scouts, of any age, and they are intentionally designed to create the essential foundation of skills and knowledge espoused by this program. I have more respect for the First Class Scout who has truly invested himself in mastering the requirements of his rank than for the Eagle Scout who brushed through them just to get started on his leadership tenures. For these new Scouts, it's FAR more important that you focus on ensuring the early ranks are passed thoroughly than it is to "skip to the higher ranks." Besides, success at those levels inherently depends on whether or not the Scout has truly demonstrated his competence in the requirements leading up to First Class. It's wonderful that these girls are driven and willing to work. Your job is make sure that they are in Scouting to become Scouts, in the deeper sense of that expression. Working carefully, not hastily, towards Eagle will help them to get the most out of their experience. And even if they don't make it that far, such an approach will ensure they still reap the true benefits of the program for the rest of their lives. Good luck!
  27. First, nobody *needs* to earn Eagle, but it's great that you have three great teens who want to within the time allotted to them. you don't want to take anyone for granted, but I suspect the 16 year old starting fresh will need most of your attention. She simply doesn't know scouts and scouters well, so you're going to need to make sure she gets connected to your better merit badge counselors, that she understands the first class rank requirements, and respects whatever younger scout may be her PL or SPL. We have similar issues with boys who join in their late teens. Sometimes they have a buddy who will show them the ropes, but they are often much more in need of adult guidance. Girls A and B are treading new territory. They will need to work a balance between troop and college. For them, you will need to constantly ask if they are having fun. A younger mom with a big heart might be a good mentor. On the flip side, their college classmates might have some cool things to offer your troop. Keep challenging them to find was to build synergy between their schools and scouting. I think this is a great opportunity for these girls, but your number 1 priority is building 1st class scouts. It sounds like you have a good idea of who is well on their way. Like any scout, you need to listen and watch and at SMCs give them honest appraisals.
  28. I second Fred that for you and the Troop focus on having a good program and advancement will flow for anyone who wants it. If I was counseling these scouts, and this advice is for scouts who are 16,17, 18 and would not be the advice I would give to younger scouts, I would tell them the requirements for Eagle can be broken down to three categories: outdoor skills, leadership and service to your fellow scouts, merit badges. A good deal of this is going to be about their time management. They need to set themselves some interim goal points --- 1stClass AND five or six mbs in four months. I would emphasize to them to read through all the requirements and all the mb requirements, both right away and several more times in the future, the same way you do with a class syllabus. That way you know when an activity is part of competing and requirement and you can be sure to add the extra touches necessary in real time to make sure your getting the whole requirement complete on your first possibility. This is a doable time table for anyone who is this age and motivated. if you look at some of the things that challenge or trip up younger scouts, like Enviro Sci or Communications, those are no more than a good night's or at least a good weekend's homework for a high school senior or college student.. best of luck to them.
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  • Posts

    • As everyone can see there are many different and valid ways to do this, and many believe strongly in their views. This  is great because it confirms the importance of our chosen volunteer work. One circumstance I will note is that leaders of all-girl troops are particularly tasked to simultaneously start up a unit and provide concentrated attention to these older girls.  I think utilizing the advantages of top-notch summer camp staff and programs Can be a smart way for new girl troops to go.  But I recognize these other approaches as very good.
    • I appreciate the courteous and wise advice given by many of our veteran members in that discussion. Thanks. Maybe in time...  RS
    • This is the silent motto for the BSA adult leaders. Thanks Saltface, it’s perfect. To bad the adult leading the discussion of fast-tracking girls to Eagle can’t get it. Barry
    • Really? A sixteen year old can earn two or three MBs a month, meet the caring adults in her community at her convenience, use some of those learning experiences to enhance the life of her patrol and troop, be in control of her own destiny, have all the badges she needs plus a few for insta-palms by year's end ... and you think "extra summer camps" is a good idea? That's not being prepared. What if she can't go to more than one BSA camp? What if she goes, and hates it because all she has is MB classes that she doesn't care about. What if she goes and likes only one MB because that camp is ansolute best at teaching it and only wants to take that one again and again and again. What if she goes, and your venturer tells her about a really awesome two-week super activity that a crew she knows is doing next year?  And, this is really important: your new adults have more to offer through their jobs and hobbies than they realize. If you endorse some stranger's MB program over their ability to provide unique opportunities for your troop, you are giving a vote of no-confidence to the people who will be keeping your program afloat for years to come. This is not a hypothetical. I've made lots of plans with older teens ... all of them were extremely diverse ... none of them involved extra weeks as participants at summer camp. They didn't all end aging out with Eagle rank, but they all achieved the aims of scouting. If after week 1, this scout really likes summer camp, let her know about additional weeks she may attend. But, don't link that with advancement.
    • Update Easter, 2019 "There's just a real sense of loss, kind of a grieving process so to speak," said Roger Hoyt, a longtime Scout leader and Philmont's general manager. "But at the end of the day, nature does renew itself and I think from the tragedy and the heartache comes this sense of renewal and opportunity." More than a half-million dollars already has been raised and the rebuilding effort is well underway with the installation of 85 new campsites and work to shore up some of the ash-covered hillsides. Crews were sidelined in January due to snow, but work has resumed in the lower elevations as the clock ticks down for the start of the summer season. And it will be a banner season with a record number of Scouts — possibly as many as 24,000 — expected to pass through Philmont, Hoyt said. Some of them initially planned to make the trek in 2018 but were derailed due to the fire and the subsequent closure of the backcountry. With nearly one-fifth of Philmont blackened, the ranch is not alone in its new mission to become more resilient as western land managers face larger and hotter wildfires fueled by overgrown forests and dry conditions. In 2018, more than 8.7 million acres (13,594 square miles) burned across the U.S., with most of that being in the West, according to the National Interagency Fire Center . Records were broken in California, which marked its deadliest and most destructive blaze in November as the town of Paradise was destroyed and 85 people were killed. Scientists have said the 2018 season was part of a longer trend of larger and more frequent fires in the western United States. In New Mexico, more than 382,000 acres (597 square miles) burned in 2018 and the state has seen its largest and most destructive fires on record within the last decade. Hoyt estimates Philmont Scout Ranch will spend $1 million in the next year on conservation and fire mitigation projects. That includes addressing silt that's washing down from barren slopes to clearing fuel from the forest floor, thinning trees and creating fuel breaks to keep fires from racing across other parts of the ranch. While the work is relatively low-cost, it's labor intensive, Hoyt said. In March alone, 140 volunteers spent over 6,000 hours on fire mitigation and restoration projects. Within two years, he hopes pockets of the burned area can be used as an outdoor classroom for visiting Scouts. Source: https://www.sent-trib.com/news/boy-scout-ranch-focuses-on-wildfire-recovery-as-season-nears/article_ba903786-63c6-11e9-ba06-3f0b01a7c243.html  
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