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  2. Its better to use symbols or in our troops case colors to represent Patrols so that they can change the name of the patrol if they wish and the gear IDs will still work..
  3. Eagledad

    Trailer Recommendation

    By the way, trailers are easy theft targets. We've had three trailers stolen, and our CO would not let us use their insurance. Insurance companies told us that custom painting the trailer is the best way to deter theft. And while that seems to be working with our newest trailer so far, it doesn't stop them. The bright red custom painted troop trailer down the street was taken in broad daylight. However, I understand why the insurance company recommended custom painting because the SM called the police immediately after passing their trailer be pulled down the street. Barry
  4. Eagledad

    When was 4th Aim added?

    That says it in a nutshell. Treflienne, I look forward to watching your program. Barry
  5. Eagledad

    Trailer Recommendation

    I found that the bigger the trailer, the more it drives the camping part of the troop program. If the patrols find transportation for their own gear, exactly what needs to go into the trailer. I'm not saying don't get a troop trailer, but usually it's the adults that want one to fit their program, not the patrol's program. Barry
  6. fred8033

    Trailer Recommendation

    "If I could go back in time to when I started scouting" ... I'd do what I saw another troop do that I thought was really cool. They found an old broken down medium sized pop-up camper. The gutted it. Removed all the heavy weight junk until it was just a shell. Then, they re-sealed the base and used it as one big portable storage box. The low profile reduced wind drag. Even a minivan could pull their scout trailer. The pop-up camper top was still in-tact. A scout on each end could lift the cover and lock the roof up so they could access the insides. The openness of the trailer promoted completely emptying it. In my experience, large troop trailers become the main storage. Troops carry thousands of pounds of extra stuff to camp that they use once a year. The result is only a guy with a Dodge Ram 25,000 can pull the troop trailer.
  7. Today
  8. Jameson76

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    I am assuming you mean they banned the skit from summer camp performances and council events. That is their event and they can do what they want. What a troop does out in the woods and the mud and dark of the campfire ring is really up to that troop and their interpretation of the guideline of the BSA
  9. Treflienne

    When was 4th Aim added?

    As a new scouter, I found the Aims and Methods helpful as a summary of the current focus of BSA. Yes @qwazse the 3 aims are mostly a restatment of what is in the oath. But (as an outsider) I wanted to know whether the oath was regarded as just a historical relic or whether it was really still emphasized. And really, the aims of citizenship and character development (and even fitness) go back to the beginning, to Baden-Powell. Scouting for Boys, p 337 "Peace Scouting is suggested as an attractive means towards developing character and good citizenship" Aids to Scoutmastership, p21 "The Aim of Scout training is to improve the standard of our future citizenhood, expecially in Character and Health; to replace Self with Service, to make the lads individually efficient, orally and physically, with the object of using that efficiency for service for their fellow-men" And as far as enumerating the methods, it can be a helpful reminder that, for example, the Outdoors is a method not an aim. We are not primarily motivated by producing excellent outdoorsmen, but rather using the outdoors to produce excellent citizens. I did find it a bit jarring when I learned that "Leadership" had also been promoted to an aim.
  10. mrkstvns

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    Micro-management of a troop that way is completely inappropriate. There can be no excuse for anyone at the council level doing such a thing.
  11. mrkstvns

    Trailer Recommendation

    You're right....there aren't many good, solid, objective reviews of cargo trailers around, so probably the best thing is to find local dealers and just go see them in person and evaluate them based on your objective criteria: space, egress, weight, solidity of construction/materials, etc. Don't forget to budget some $$$ to customize the trailer. Most troops like putting logos or slogans on the trailer and most build shelves and boxes into the interior to handle the kinds of equipment you want to carry. Some ideas for trailer customization are in the Bryan on Scouting site: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/05/03/trailer-insides/
  12. TMSM

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    Council can ban skits? I think half of our skits could be banned if you applied this kind of logic. German biker gang, scout masters brain, Hanz the german, ugliest human. I could go on and on. For sure now we are keeping the JCPenny skit.
  13. RememberSchiff

    Trailer Recommendation

    @Tpherr welcome to scouter.com
  14. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    Is there any better way? Alternatives I have seen are: storing everying in a trailer parked at a different location than your meeting place, and storing everything in someone's garage. Both seem worse.
  15. Does anyone have a recommendation on a brand of trailer? We are buying a new trailer for our troop and all the reviews I see for trailer manufacturers are three stars or lower. I prefer to find a site that has objective reviews (like consumer reports) but can’t find any
  16. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    I agree about patrols having their own gear and being responsible for it. But why not put a wolf on it? or a cobra?
  17. Treflienne

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    Not necessarily. None of our girls had brothers already in our linked troop. (Several had brothers in several other troops, one of these brothers has since switched to our linked troop.) I forsee more boy-girl sibling pairs in the two troops in the future, as more kids come up from cubs.
  18. Treflienne

    Great Examples of Girl Troop Successes

    Assuming that these experienced parents will continue volunteering, it sounds like mostly what you need is more girls -- who will likely come with inexperienced but willing to help out parents. Anecdotes are just that -- but in our troop we have no Venturers, no highschoolers, and no crossovers from cub scouts. Only 6th-8th graders. (Our area did not have early-adopter cub packs.) And yes, about half the girls in the troop are there because they were invited by a friend who was already planning to join the troop. If you want to be sure that the new local girls' troop is conveniently at your CO (and not in the next town) you might not want to wait a year and a half. Do any of the Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts have sisters (age 11 and up) interested in scouts? Has anyone asked? (All the troops/packs in our school district did this for us, and yes it turned up girls.) And if the interested 11-14-year old girls only have dads willing to camp, and not moms willing to camp, you could consider double-registering with the new girls troop, and occasionally camping with them.
  19. bsaggcmom

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    Our council banned this skit a few years back citing that it glorified bullying and hazing both of which are not allowed in scouts. My guys (cubs and scouts) used to loved JC Penney and centa-peed. They can't do them anymore. It's ashame adults have to ruin kids fun. Kids think bodily functions are hilarious, too bad the up tight PC adults won't let kids be kids. We're raising a generation of hypersensitive kids, I'm scared of the thought of these soon to be adults running the world in my old and grey days.
  20. Cburkhardt

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    We are in the midst of a start-up of a major nationwide roll-out of a new youth organization. Fortunately we do not need to master a new program or operating techniques. What we do need to do is use our wits and negotiating skills with fellow volunteers on these basic implementation matters. Our discussion regarding equipment is a great illustration and is easier to deal with than some of the other issues because it deals with easily understood "hard objects". Because this is a start-up, and because there are infinitely different fact variations (boy troops with a lot of assets, boy troops with no resources, girl troops with nothing, girl troops comprised largely of members who have brothers in the boy troop and all are close friends, girl troops with a financial backer, etc.), there are and cannot be any standard rules of how to approach things. I believe the best approach is to convent a good meeting with the policymakers at the CO and the Troop leadership. I would not put this into the hands of a broad parent group. Folks like Ranman who have not yet fully sorted-out their personal views on the welcome to girls into our program are good people who might prefer hard rules, but know that we just have to do our best at being open people of good faith in this circumstance. If we are open and approach these decisions with a generous spirit, we will get through this start-up in fine shape. With some exception, Troop equipment is not really expensive. So, this is really a matter of understanding how to manage and respect our assets. We do need to be prepared to approach those who are not yet supporters with a generous spirit. They reasonably want to protect and well-manage Troop property. When they see girl Troops treat these items with respect and girl Troop Committees joining in to maintain funding and provide volunteer service, they will have reason to look favorably on girls in Scouts BSA.
  21. Chadamus

    Hello From North Cackalacky

    @Onslow, welcome to scouter dot com!
  22. Chadamus

    Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

    Agreed. Earlier this year I had the opportunity to attend a speaking event with Dr. Kevin Elko. He spoke to how our culture has morphed into one where people get irrationally offended at the drop of a hat. Let the kids have some fun.
  23. A "troop supply room" is definitely a painful way to handle gear. Take this as me not trying to tell you how to do your job, but how make your job work for both you and the troop's QM(s) ... Assign things to patrols, not troops. I understand the temptation to use "pink" vs. "blue", but that will last until you have a boy leader whose favorite color is pink and a girl leader whose favorite color is blue and they compare notes one evening after overhearing adults carping about stuff. Your QM must tag assets with something durable. (I think there's an old thread somewhere about how to do this with d/o's.) And those tags should reflect patrols. (E.g., Wolfs get gear on the alpha shelf with alpha tags, Cobras get beta, etc ... If a scout can make an assignment board for you, that would be gravy.) The QM is not to scavenge kits for his/her pet patrol. Such a QM would be dropped in a day by any PLC that I've known. If alpha patrol needs more than its allotment of d/o's, it can ask beta patrol for a loaner. If it comes back wet, it goes to beta patrol to clean and season. Which scout actually does that is between the two PL's, and if they don't resolve it, the PLC will. You could have one troop or five sharing a space. It doesn't matter. From a QM perspective the gear is managed by patrols. If he tells the SPL that the equipment room is disheveled, the SPL(s) arranges for the PLC to have a clean-up day. In that process, the QM goes over with the PLs how gear is inspected allocated and shelved. The result in our troop has been sets of patrol gear and bins of spare parts. All must be returned cleaned. Note that I didn't mention QM form troop 1 and QM from troop 2. I'm not against that sort of thing if the two QMs actually work well together. But more often then not there's only one scout in 50 who is really passionate about polished gear. Nobody wants that person in a tug-of-war in a small room with someone who isn't as rigorous. And I guess that's where the rubber hits the road for a linked troop. It's all fine and good making space for boys to develop in positions of responsibilities as easily as girls. But in real life, two librarians, two historians, two QMs, etc ... under the same roof could do more harm than good. (Two buglers? That's actually kind of nice.)
  24. WisMom, congrats on WB.. Most folks think it worth the time and pelf, but some have qualms and regrets, there ya go. Again, a lot depends on the Staff folks, which change with each course. It is what it is. (Guitar riff intro...…) I study camping and hiking, And all my Wood Badge classes, I got a crazy Scoutmaster, he wears dark glasses. Patrols are doing GREAT, there’s nothing to trade , . Scout future’s so BRIGHT, I gotta wear shades…. I gotta wear shades. I gotta work my tickets, beads and thong are waitin’. Benefit the Scouts, not a lot of louts. Ticket’s going great, and they’re only getting better. Antelopes and Bears, Owls , my friends are made. The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades. I gotta wear shades… With Scouting we are blessed, our kids can realize They gain by going camping, making Dutch Oven Pies. Our Packs are doing GREAT, and the Troops are getting better. Our Scouts can sharpen right, Totin’ Chip blades, The future’s so bright, we better wear shades, We better wear shades…..
  25. SSScout

    When was 4th Aim added?

    Q: (Qwazse) Oh, I think you and I are more on the same page than you might care to admit. "Happy go lucky " indeed... As has been noted, and not just by me, kids won't, don't join Scouting because of methods or aims. Those are for the adults, the parents. They join and stay because of what I call "safe adventure". Kids climb trees because the trees are tall and it is a challenge to their physical prowess and they COULD fall, and it gets a rise out of their mothers (if not their fathers ?). Same sort of attraction to Scouting, at least the "traditional " kind of program. There's that word again, program . What 12 year old is going to ask his folks "what kind of program do they have?" This providential tike is gong to say (I hope) "I want to go hiking/play soccer/join the chess club/be in the school band", whatever, because she/he sees fun and some adventure and challenge in it. Or.... they may just want to lay on the couch and play Minecraft all day.... Much then, depends on the previous years of encouragement ("wow, look how high you are!") or guidance (" hold on to that branch !") or opportunity ( "Want to build a tree house?") or limitation ("if you fall out of the tree, don't blame me, young man !") the parent has given.... So maybe the adults need the rationale, the definition of what has worked, what has gone before more than the kids. Some things become obvious (if everyone takes a turn at the camp chores, they get done quicker and no one person does all the work) but other things come as a result (cooperation gains friends and doing stuff gains pride). I think another movie that ought to be shown at Scout events (WB? ) might be Captains Courageous. Freddie Bartholomew and Spencer Tracy .
  26. I have not yet persuaded our boys troop SM and SPL to address the fact that we now have a girls troop under the same roof, to the boys troop. (I actually think this is going to end up being a festering source of problems, as the boys are inventing their own dialog regarding the purpose, relationship/etc of the girls troop to the boys troop, and in the echo-chamber of their own fantasies and paranoia, quite a lot of things are "becoming fact" that just ain't so.) Unfortunately I think this is one of those "the perfect is the enemy of the good" situations, and our boys troop SM is cogitating on the best way to have the discussion. I'm a bit more bull-in-a-china-closet myself, but in a support role, I'm limited to lubricating certain paths and periodic nudges. Oh boy do I know it. I personally am in the challenging situation of being the person in the girls troop best equipped to make this stop, but also being the person with the largest need to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. Oh woe is me... Meh, we'll figure it out. So far, the girls haven't noticed that there's a problem, and so long as I can keep it that way, we'll do ok in the end.
  27. Ranman328

    Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

    I guess my question would be regarding the equipment issue is what would a new Troop have done say three years ago if they were just starting out? My Troop donated stoves, tents, pots, pans, utensils, water jugs, chairs, coolers, propane tanks to the local girl troop in our area. I personally don't know what would have happened a few years ago if it was a boy Troop. I would assume that other Troops in the area would try to help out. While I am not completely on board with the girl Troop issue, I do want them be successful. I think it could have been handled better.
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    • Its better to use symbols or in our troops case colors to represent Patrols so that they can change the name of the patrol  if they wish and the gear IDs will still work..
    • By the way, trailers are easy theft targets. We've had three trailers stolen, and our CO would not let us use their insurance. Insurance companies told us that custom painting the trailer is the best way to deter theft. And while that seems to be working with our newest trailer so far, it doesn't stop them. The bright red custom painted troop trailer down the street was taken in broad daylight. However, I understand why the insurance company recommended custom painting because the SM called the police immediately after passing their trailer be pulled down the street.   Barry
    • That says it in a nutshell. Treflienne, I look forward to watching your program. Barry
    • I found that the bigger the trailer, the more it drives the camping part of the troop program. If the patrols find transportation for their own gear, exactly what needs to go into the trailer. I'm not saying don't get a troop trailer, but usually it's the adults that want one to fit their program, not the patrol's program. Barry
    • "If I could go back in time to when I started scouting" ... I'd do what I saw another troop do that I thought was really cool.  They found an old broken down medium sized pop-up camper.  The gutted it.  Removed all the heavy weight junk until it was just a shell.  Then, they re-sealed the base and used it as one big portable storage box. The low profile reduced wind drag.  Even a minivan could pull their scout trailer.   The pop-up camper top was still in-tact.  A scout on each end could lift the cover and lock the roof up so they could access the insides.   The openness of the trailer promoted completely emptying it.  In my experience, large troop trailers become the main storage.  Troops carry thousands of pounds of extra stuff to camp that they use once a year.  The result is only a guy with a Dodge Ram 25,000 can pull the troop trailer.    
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