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  2. swilliams

    possible fee increase coming

    I'll have to ask our Committee Chair. A scout came to the last committee meeting to give us his Eagle proposal, and the CC brought it up then. It seemed to me like it was a new requirement, but I couldn't say for sure. We had always gone with two adults on Eagle projects, one with YPT, and one was always a parent.
  3. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    Most of that post was due to dumpster fire of a week (scouting and non) and a aggrivating comment a den leader made last night. I feel better, thanks. I like the therapy here. 😂😂
  4. Today
  5. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    FWIW - I only mentioned it because I had to really work as a pack & troop break the cycle of our other volunteers constantly bashing district, council, national, OA, Wood Badge, etc... It was like whatever happened, we liked to blame someone. Guess I'm a little more tuned into it.
  6. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    And I would probably have done that. On the boards, it's a little different environment than a parents mtg.
  7. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    Thanks - I asked for a reason and this is a valid one. i.e. - if National had created a different culture, then benefactors would have helped us out of this situation. That's very fair. Personally, my gut tells me that the change in giving is more due to a general trend against faith in organized institutions. I've always thought it's due to the combination of Watergate and the rise in myriad news/analysis sources we have today. With countless TV, cable, and internet analysis channels, everyone is criticizing everything today. That has a net effect of eroding public support for most every institution. Just about every national level institution is less popular today than 40 years ago. We all see the mistakes they make today and those mistakes are magnified 1000x. When we were kids it was unusual to hear a story about a bad Scouting volunteer - and that was during the era when all that abuse was happening. Today, every misstep is reported over and over again.
  8. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    For what it's worth. In this case I think we have two choices: Describe this all as some kind of colossal screw up and blame national. i.e., "clearly these guys at national were not paying attention and let this turn into a big mess." Be transparent as best possible and provide an honest update. i.e., "National is under tremendous financial uncertainty and pressure. While I don't know the specifics, it sure appears that something unusual is keeping them from setting the fee for 2020. National is aware how important it is and hopefully we'll get it soon." Myself, I try to do the second. In 10 years as a unit leader, it always seems to work for me.
  9. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    Poor choice of words on my part, failure to edit my post. Ya got me... I really don't blame anyone, not National even... My comments were directed at the poor timing and wording of the statement, failure to plan, and now volunteer leaders such as myself having to deal with the fallout. We are the face of the organization to our families, and it makes us look unprepared and inept. That's why I am deflecting the criticism towards Irving.
  10. Eagledad

    possible fee increase coming

    Everything you said is true. Still, I've said before that if this litigation happened 20 years ago, I believe the donors would have saved the BSA. The membership social inclusive situations (not sure what to call them) has drove away much of that support. If National did anything wrong, they didn't give their followers any by-in of a future. Barry
  11. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    How do you blame national for this fee increase? Everything I have read - here and in other places - clearly indicates that the reason for this fee increase is the increase in costs by the underwriters of our insurance program. The fees in this insurance program are growing because of lawsuits filed as the result of abuse cases that predate just about all of our involvement in Scouting. My understanding is that a significant reason for these current lawsuits is the extensions of state laws on the time frame upon which lawsuits needed to be filed. Further, it appears that many of these lawsuits are being organized by trial lawyers who are encouraging victims to file these lawsuits. I'm the first to support victims of abuse. What happened earlier in our history is reprehensible and beyond any defense. BSA leadership at the time only made things worse by being secretive with records. Abuse is a heinous crime. I cannot imagine what the current leadership of the organization could have done to prevent the abuse 20, 30, or more years ago and the current crop of lawsuits. As far as I can tell, they are instead working to do the proper thing to both keep the organization afloat and the respect the victims of abuse by our predecessors in the program.
  12. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    I'm not for a moment suggesting I'm in favor of an increase. Merely that predictions of doom and gloom as a result simply strike me as a bit strong. You make a fair point. Again, we all have financial lines that we cannot cross. My gut tells me that if a family is that engaged in Scouting, they probably see a lot of value in ir. My gut tells me that a 10% increase in the cost of participating in something that spend that much time in is likely to be absorbed. I'd make a distinction here. Is the national organization of the BSA worth $200 a year for a family of four? No, I would argue that it is not. However, is participating in the Scouting program as implemented in the BSA worth $1,100? I'd suggest that yes it is.
  13. HashTagScouts

    possible fee increase coming

    it's any activity- if you are having kids standing outside a store selling items, you need 2 adults 21+. A patrol activity, same. MB class, same.
  14. njdrt-rdr

    possible fee increase coming

    Hmm...That never dawned on me with an eagle project...I'm sure I'm wrong, I guess generally it never clicked to me as a scout event because it wasn't run by the troop.
  15. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    I can sympathise, there are 6 of us including CC/DL mama and me. We don't sell popcorn at my unit. I refuse to. We make more money doing other fundraisers.
  16. Jackdaws

    possible fee increase coming

    This is the part that just kills me. We can't sell that much popcorn around here. Its way too over priced. So the BSA assumes that we can just wave a magic wand and make it all better. BSA needs to come up with something else that is cheaper and that people wont mind paying for. We really should just seize the GSA and their cookies.
  17. When they used to regularly come to CU, where I was, and just kick the tar out of us. Them and Nebraska. Those days taught me the benefit of having the outdoors as a passion. Yep, pain can be a good lesson.
  18. 5thGenTexan

    possible fee increase coming

    I will accept 17% all day long, but I think it will be more than that. My DE says an increase up to $48 and I don't like it but will probably go along with it. The suggestions it might be $100 or more will cause me to bail. This is my third year as a leader and I am CM this year planning on WB in Jan, so I am just a parent. There are 4 of us in my family and $400 a year to National is not going to be possible. I know the original letter from National said that to cover the increase we could just sell more popcorn and that line of thinking makes me say unkind things.
  19. shortridge

    Where would you go?

    Leave? No. I’m going to be right where I am, as CC of my daughter’s troop until she ages out, then working with my sons’ Cub pack as they get older. The program is solid at its core. I’ll take care of my local kids and they’ll have a great time. National can do whatever National does, and it doesn’t affect the day-to-day unit program a whole heck of a lot. I do agree that Cubs has gotten far, far too long. If my boys join, they’ll be waiting until Tiger or more probably Wolf. Lions is pretty ridiculous. There are only so many times you can visit the police station and go pumpkin-picking and play fitness games over five years to complete what are basically the same achievements. I understand that the pros did it to scoop kids up sooner and compete with toddler T-ball and preschool soccer - but sports are seeing youth burnout as well! Kids’ interests change and they get bored.
  20. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    Exactly. Even if it's only that, and as @ParkMan said it's not that much, but are parents going to say "Increase? Nope. I will spend my allocated $ for youth programs elsewhere" Unfortunately, people aren't as loyal as we would like to hope. There is too much out there to be a part of. And current negativity towards the BSA, warranted or not, makes any increase a hard sell. Believe me, when I need to go to families and ask for MORE money, I will surely blame Nationals ineptitude. I have no issue throwing them under the bus.
  21. walk in the woods

    possible fee increase coming

    @ParkMan The structure of your argument makes sense, but, I wonder if it isn't incomplete. Another analysis goes something like this: Current costs for Susie Cub Scout, $200, Tommy Tenderfoot $500, Parent Leader $300 (let's say) for a total of $1000. Assuming a $33/person increase that becomes effectively $1100. The question isn't whether a family can absorb the 10% relative increase, rather, the question being prompted is if the BSA is providing $1100/year worth of value.
  22. walk in the woods

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    My son was non-verbal due to his autism until he was almost 4. We used sign language to help him communicate, but, it wasn't standard ASL. Rather, we used word-order. I'm not an expert but, as I understand it, when you see the signers along side a presentation they aren't signing a word-for-word translation. Rather the signing has a different structure. Word-order is basically learning the signs for "Be" and "Prepared" and using them in that order. Anyway, I think this is the book we used. It was 20 years ago now so the memory is foggy.
  23. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    To be fair to those families. When someone joins anything - be it simming, scouting, soccer, whatever - they do a little cost/budget/benefit analysis. When you start changing the costs, families inherently are going to re-do that analysis in their mind. For some they really can't afford the new amount. For some, they just dislike having to pay more and so have a lot of frustration when they are asked to pay more. Of others, they look at the new amount and think "no problem". As I mentioned in @Cubmaster Pete's thread - based on my back of the napkin calculations, this will increase the cost of Cub Scouts from $200 to $233 (17%) and Scouts BSA from $500 to $533 (7%). These kind of increases are certainly not something I enjoy, but seems absorbable based on the benefits I see from the BSA. My gut tells me that most people will be able to absorb the increase. In my opinion, the specific things you get from the National Council are not worth an additional $33 a year. But, the value I get from the Scouting program in the BSA system is easily worth a 7% to 17% increase. The program structure in the BSA is very good, the activities provided by leaders for my kids outstanding, the advancement program is terrific, the facilities maintained by the councils & national outstanding. The district & council level programming provided is a nice bonus to our unit activities. The adult leader support & training that comes from volunteers & professionals is pretty extensive. I'm sure I could easily name more. Is it worth it to me to move to a less developed program over a 7% to 17% increase - I really don't think so.
  24. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    I think they are referring to the BSA regulation about 2 deep leadership at every Scout function, no matter what it is.
  25. DuctTape

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Do samples have to be followed verbatim, or can they be modified to fit the pack? Of course this question is rhetorical.
  26. Sentinel947

    possible fee increase coming

    Guide to safe Scouting requires two registered adults over 21 for all Scouting activities.
  27. qwazse

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    @FireStone, sorry to say I can't help you. I've used online sites for religious terms in ASL, but not scouting. However, you might want to call around to agencies that serve hearing impaired. Your local hospital or county courthouse could be a good start. Round here, I would call the school for the deaf. Sometimes they can send a volunteer. They might even know a few scouts in your area who sign ASL. It's definitely more fun to learn from someone who uses it as a first language.
  1. Load more activity
  • Posts

    • I'll have to ask our Committee Chair.  A scout came to the last committee meeting to give us his Eagle proposal, and the CC brought it up then.  It seemed to me like it was a new requirement, but I couldn't say for sure.  We had always gone with two adults on Eagle projects, one with YPT,  and one was always a parent.    
    • Most of that post was due to dumpster fire of a week (scouting and non) and a aggrivating comment a den leader made last night. I feel better, thanks. I like the therapy here. 😂😂
    • FWIW - I only mentioned it because I had to really work as a pack & troop break the cycle of our other volunteers constantly bashing district, council, national, OA, Wood Badge, etc...  It was like whatever happened, we liked to blame someone.  Guess I'm a little more tuned into it.
    • And I would probably have done that. On the boards, it's a little different environment than a parents mtg.
    • Thanks - I asked for a reason and this is a valid one.  i.e. - if National had created a different culture, then benefactors would have helped us out of this situation.  That's very fair. Personally, my gut tells me that the change in giving is more due to a general trend against faith in organized institutions.  I've always thought it's due to the combination of Watergate and the rise in myriad news/analysis sources we have today.  With countless TV, cable, and internet analysis channels, everyone is criticizing everything today.  That has a net effect of eroding public support for most every institution.  Just about every national level institution is less popular today than 40 years ago.  We all see the mistakes they make today and those mistakes are magnified 1000x.  When we were kids it was unusual to hear a story about a bad Scouting volunteer - and that was during the era when all that abuse was happening.  Today, every misstep is reported over and over again.
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