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    • My take away from this thread is that it is very easy to get caught up in the politics of Scouting.  The national council did this, my local council did that.  Be it professionals, council volunteers, Wood Badgers, whatever.  I'm not for a minute going to pretend that any of those groups always or even often make the right choices. As a long time volunteer, I've come to appreciate just how little any of that matters to a specific unit program.  The program I saw in the 80's is very, very similar to the one our troop runs.  The amount of district and council interference I see is remarkably minimal.   The irony of this tread is that I think national is doing very little to impact the outdoor program - it's us who want to engage in national Scouting politics.  You want to have a great outdoor program - have it.  It's up to you.
    • So for you, it seems to be more about how they conduct business than the specific actions they take (or don't take). I think I can agree with that.  I think a lot of things come from a consuming concern for keeping scouts safe (both YPT and G2SS).  I don't think this focus is wrong, but I think it has gone too far in some places (mostly the G2SS).   I think the finances of National worry me, but they won't break the program. They may cause us some hardship, but they won't break it.  Councils are where the program can be broken. 
    • First, I really don't care about the social stuff and I don't judge anyone because labels are the worst way to judge whether or not someone is a decent person and trustworthy around youth. I wish to dissociate from the "real men" comment. 
        Second, I think the core of what I want from National is that it abide by the Scout Law. I think if it had used that as a litmus test for every decision made, many of these disconnects between the leadership, councils, and units, would go away. National right now is almost unrecognizable as a scouting organization in its operations and, in my humble opinion, has lost its way. 
    • I'm curious.  Other than what you think National has handled incorrectly, what do you want from National that they are not providing? What "more" do you want? This argument has come and gone. Scouts is not the holder of some specific moral code (and I'm not sure it ever should have been). Why are you so opposed to gay youth and scouters? Should those youth not have the opportunity to experience scouting? Has the BSA forced you to accept scouters you didn't want as leaders in your troop? The girl thing is decided, get over it.  No one is forcing you to lead girls.   Again, outdoor emphasis works best at the UNIT level.  No one is keeping your troop from hiking, camping, canoeing, repelling, and what ever else you want to do.   Real men? Are real men only interested in the outdoors? Are men (young and old) who are interested in other things less real men?  I kind of hope the BSA runs people with your attitude out.  It certainly isn't helping. 
    • Withdrawn from social engineering?  First they invited gay youth to be members, then gay men to be Scout Masters.  Transgenders?  Oh what the heck, y'all come on, too!  And since BSA now allows girls to be in the BOY Scouts, you don't even have to stick to the gender you pick.  Duty to God?  Don't ask, don't tell; okay? WHAT TRADITIONAL SOCIAL BOUNDARIES ARE LEFT?  I'd say that the Left has departed the field in utter victory.  What else could they hope to accomplish?  Drive all the straight males from the program?   Wait.  Maybe if BSA de-emphasizes the outdoors in the program, all the real men will get bored and drop out....
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