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    • How is it different? What activities did that LDS crew do? Did they elect officers according to the leadership manual? If so did their president attend venturing officers associations? Or did they have a modified leadership manual? Did they adhere to that? I'm sorry, but just because a CO has a peculiar interest in the program, they don't get a pass on being part of the problem that made a program seem to be booming when in fact getting crews that venturers were proud to be in was no slam dunk at all! Every paper crew existed at some point. Some club filled out paperwork for their youth members to get them in on BSA's insurance. They did one or two activities of whatever they did, and they kept up appearances without ever actually promoting venturing. No district official attempted to make them contribute any more than that. Then the chickens came home to roost in about '08 as those of us who wanted our officers to really know how great scouting was had lists that were 50-percent irrelevant. Then, when membership costed real money and real time to complete position specific training, those units dropped like flies.
    • I think everyone was aware that LDS Crews weren't the same thing as a traditional crew.  It's not quite the same thing as a paper crew that didn't really exist.
    • More specifics on service stars: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/04/02/service-stars-for-scouts-and-scouters-pins-with-a-point/ I'm going to go the opposite direction.  Paper venturers were the mechanism of choice for false inflation of program growth for DE's wanting an easy pat on the back. I wish you really were a venturer like the kids in my crew -- whose applications I would not accept if there was any hint that the parent filled out anything other than his/her signature. You would have made a great one! Do you really want a star because your good name was used to help some pro- get props on their evaluation for starting a unit? Your leaders were clueless because the pro- who approved them could have cared less if they were going to do anything for the program. Just something to think about from the perspective of the guy who sat in the room calling a DE on the carpet for giving me a list of crews whose contact info didn't even work.
    • It seems as though all of the issues and discussion about councils can be reduced to this: What services essential to carrying out the Scouting program can only be performed by councils? Which of those essential services that can only be performed by councils, if any, can only be performed by paid council employees?  
    • I concur - wear the star. When that application was submitted you were a member in the program.  Yes, it may not have been the experience you'd have wanted - but that's ok.  Service stars are our participation ribbons.  You participated - you wear the star. The quality of your participation is evidenced in other awards.  You don't have those.  
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