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    • Absolutely. My comment here has some bolding for emphasis and clarity. As a lot of Wood Badgers in my area like to say "Feedback is a gift." I've actually really enjoyed this thread, because it gives me things to look for in my own Councils' NYLT and Wood Badge programs. Obviously not all these critiques apply to every Wood Badger or every Wood Badge program, but it's still great feedback. I obviously can't speak for every Council, but I think mine has a decent handle on some of these things with our Wood Badge and NYLT programs. I definitely do see some of these critiques in my council.  To summarize:  Lack of humility Being dismissive of non Woodbadgers/NYLT Treating other Wood Badgers poorly. Co-opting other events to do Wood Badge stuff. Frankly the youth don't care. I know I didn't when I was a Scout. 
        Not "Walking the Walk" Hazing of participants. Stealing items, singing for lost items, talking smack about people. Inside jokes in public. -The Critter song, Beading ceremonies are examples of this.  Not using the stuff taught in Wood Badge in their units. Any Wood Badge graduate who is not attempting to use the patrol method in their troop should "retire".  Being one of those who just sits around at council/district events and act like an authority figure. 
        Sales tactics Overselling/over pushing Wood Badge/NYLT. -Guilt tripping.  There are two different types of Scouters that dislike Wood Badge I think. Their reasons are similar, but not the same. Type one are the ones on this forum, are the kind that have been treated poorly by Wood Badge folks, and they have a the right ideas on how to run their troops anyways. Wood Badge is already preaching to the choir for them. So it's less about the material and more about the time the program takes, the fact they won't learn much from it, and that the Wood Badge folks in their area aren't good ambassadors for the program.  The second type are folks who are out running their own programs, not a Scout troop. They look as Wood Badge as threatening because it'll contradict their own little fiefdoms. These folks are going to be really rare on a forum like this, because they already think they know anything. It's critical not to lump type 1 and type 2 together.  Like most things in life, the way to fix the divide between type one people and Wood Badge is for us as Wood Badge folks to listen seriously to their concerns, and do our best to adapt our behavior. Ultimately, Type 1 and Wood Badge folks are on the same side. We have the same goals for the program, so to let a training course get in the way of that is really shortsighted. One of the best Assistant Scoutmaster I had as a youth never went to Wood Badge. He was to put off by the behavior of some of the staff.  The best form of advertising of most things is for it to perform. For Wood Badge, that means that we're helpful to other scouters, we run our troops according to the principles we promote, and that we're humble, friendly and encouraging, vs elitists.  There's so much more I could probably say on this topic, but I don't want to make this comment even longer and harder to read. 
    • There is definitely some irony in this response. Barry  
    • Parkman, I understand how it can seem that the ridicule level is higher than deserved.  But I can truthfully say the WB communities I've seen over the decades (several councils) have more than earned the criticism. It's not that it's an accepted practice so much as a frank assessment of how many WBers collectively act.    Their condescending attitudes aside, when a group within the BSA feels it's their right to hijack any public event--camporee campfires, courts of honor for scouts, roundtables, etc.--to spend up to 45 minutes presenting a set of beads, that's the clincher.  In front of a listless and often incredulous audience, the WBers sally forth with endless stories, critter songs, mutual-admiration, inside jokes and such, completely tone-deaf to how their actions are being perceived. Whether it's beading ceremonies, or the pushy sales presentations, or anything else discussed here, I consider it valid feedback.  For good or ill.  The WB community would be miles ahead if they tailored actions and attitudes accordingly.  But no.  Since the feedback comes from the Great Unwashed Non-Beaded Folks, it is discounted and ignored.   Darn shame, because if the WB community a) toned down the braggadocio, and b) ditched the power point death march and focused on outdoor adventure (hiking, cooking, camping instead of sitting in a mess hall or at a picnic table), WB courses would have waiting lists of folks wanting to join.  The ball is strictly in WB's court.
    • Same reason folks refer to new Scouters (in their estimation anyone less than 20+ years of experience) as a group who's ruining the patrol method.  The same reason they refer to women scouters as a group who want to turn Scouting into Family Camp. I guess it's a combination of ease of convenience and small-mindedness.
    • Clearly that was inappropriate and wrong.  Scouters make bad choices all the time. Reminds me of a time we took our Cub Pack to the Council Cuboree.  The OA folks decided that it would be great to have an hour long OA drumming demonstration at the evening Cuboree campfire.  So, 6 guys came out and drummed for an hour in front of 600 participants. Needless to say our pack lasted 15 minutes.  We did enjoy great sport that night back at the campsite "Hey Bob - are they still going?  Yep".  Classic.  OA Call Out Ceremonies around here are kinda like that too.  Ok, we have a great Camporee campfire and then at the end and spend 15 minutes tapping out new OA members.  It's great fun for the new OA members.  The younger guys or the ones that don't get elected are often bored to tears.
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