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  2. 5thGenTexan

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Weird question assuming a worst case scenario. Could Councils exist and operate IF National went away as a result of this? Maybe under the umbrella of a central State office? Would there be different brands of Scouting across the country due to regional political and cultural differences?
  3. $20,000 !!!! Are you sure that's not the cost for a NEW version? Old boats lose value quickly. If it is worth $20,000, that is a ridiculous asset for a troop to carry. It sounds like this is a nebulous position on whether it's a personal vehicle (titled to a individual, used mostly for personal use) or a troop owned asset (not titled to charter org, used once a year). New motor boat engines for a 20+ foot boat is worth more than $4000. Often, the engine is worth the same as the boat. Perhaps this is an in-board motor that is really a car engine mounted in a boat. See if you can smile and let this go. If you rented a boat, you'd be paying $1000 per day for such a vehicle. Boats are expensive period ... to buy, to operate, to repair.
  4. gblotter

    Lost Eagle Scout Project Proposal

    So long as the original approvers still remember you coming to them for their signatures, I don't see why anyone would have a problem signing again after hearing your explanation. Examine past emails, text messages, etc for the exact dates when you had them sign your original paperwork. That may be helpful in refreshing their memories, if needed.
  5. Saying this another way: if the boat is owned by an individual Scouter (not the troop), but that Scouter lets the Scouts use it a couple times a year, then the burden of repairing an old, broken down engine should not fall entirely on the troop. It might be reasonable for the troop to pitch in and pay something based on how often the troop uses the boat vs. how often the Scouter uses it for private use.
  6. T2Eagle

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I can't read the CSE response as anything other than confirmation of the WSJ report. Several Catholic dioceses have filed for bankruptcy under similar circumstances. here's a great article explaining what happens. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/01/16/explaining-archdiocese-bankruptcy Broadly, assets that aren't strictly needed for continuing operations are set aside to pay creditors, including plaintiffs who have filed suit. In addition, the court oversees operations of the organization in order to protect the claims of creditors.
  7. gblotter

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Although a longtime Scouter, I joined this forum only last year, motivated by my concerns about the decision to admit girls into all aspects of BSA's programs. From the beginning, I have repeated in post after post that this girl decision reeked of desperation (specifically financial desperation). Why else would BSA National rush to ram through such a divisive decision? Why else would BSA National bungle so badly the premature announcement of a girl program that had not even been defined yet? (When announced, BSA's girl program was not half-baked - it wasn't even in the oven.) All they could say was "trust us - it will be wonderful". I had predicted some sort of financial reorganization/bankruptcy was inevitable due to declining membership numbers and the huge debts incurred for construction of The Summit. However, I did not anticipate that liabilities over past sexual abuse claims would factor in so heavily. That element was not on my radar screen. Although perhaps not the deciding factor, I have no doubt that BSA's precarious financial situation was also deliberated by LDS church leadership when deciding to end their century-long partnership. With the stink of financial collapse in the air, combined with renewed visibility of past sexual abuse claims, BSA enrollments will go into freefall, forcing the unthinkable. Liquidation of properties like The Summit and Philmont is possible because BSA National doesn't have many other assets. Locally-owned council camps are not directly at risk, except that there will be fewer and fewer Scouts to make use of them. BSA's desperation in their decision-making was in plain view for all to see. As part of a longtime Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts, I am beyond sad to be right in my pessimism. I can only hope that my worst fears will somehow not be realized.
  8. Today
  9. HashTagScouts

    Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

    Many used to actually enforce a minimal measure of what it meant to "serve actively in your troop" in terms of leadership PORs, which by general rule of thumb from my time as a youth was 75% of all troop activities, and campouts were part of that. I see ever increasing numbers of units that have no minimum criteria, and not so coincidentally have issues of getting older scouts to actually go on campouts.
  10. Oldscout448

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Headed out to buy some popcorn single malt. I promise not to wear my uni while I drink.
  11. HashTagScouts

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I'm sure right now National Supply has a boatload of debt with all the skorts they've ordered readying for the cub launch and all the new Scouts BSA branded merch they ordered for 2019.
  12. Yesterday
  13. Saltface

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I need a reaction that's both laughing and ugly crying.
  14. Eagle1993

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    The Eagle Scout award .... 😳
  15. MattR

    Linked or not linked?

    Our story: We have some girls and parents that will bridge to scouts in a year. Some of the moms really do a lot of outdoor activities. We were worried about a split troop until we heard that last part. We have time but the current thinking is essentially EDGE for the parents and the scouts. A temp SM/ASM's with an expiration date while the moms get up to speed and take over. We'll teach them our program. Shared gear and committee. Separate PLC, separate calendar, with the hope that weekends mostly line up. If we go to the same area there's no reason the two troops have to do the same thing. If the girls want to canoe and the boys want to backpack, so be it. I'm hoping this encourages the boys to understand that their patrols can do different things on a campout.
  16. JoeBob

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    See Liberals! There is a Santa Claus! Can't you just hear the wine-coolers clinking together?
  17. MattR

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Unless they owe you or you work at national I don't think this will change anything. This is about restructuring debt, which is code for owing less. I doubt national actually owes much they could sell, otherwise they would have already sold it. Restructuring the leadership at the top might be a good thing, though. But I don't know who would do that. We should volunteer!
  18. RememberSchiff

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    So a greater incentive to get Eagle sooner rather than later? Hardly seems a business letter. Date? Salutation? The news links seem serious. I wonder how quick xxx will make an offer to buy Philmont? My $0.01
  19. Kind of a long shot, but if the boat is mostly used for personal use, then figure out the ratio and say it's fair for those that used it for their own use to pay that share of the $4000. How many scouts are in this troop and how much does the troop have in the bank? ($4k is huge for any troops I know of.) Also, what percentage of the families are upset about this?
  20. HashTagScouts

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Local camps are council property, and many of them are actually private or public trusts, and not actually owned by BSA or councils. Both Philmont and Summit are held in trusts as well, so not like BSA could sell that (expenses of operating thee, whole different story). I have no idea about Seabase or Northern Tier, but assume those are held in trusts or at least there are restrictions that they can't be sold. The optics of the whole thing are more the damaging part. A couple other articles: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/boy-scouts-weighs-bankruptcy https://www.scsun-news.com/story/news/local/new-mexico/2018/12/12/lawsuit-accuses-boy-scouts-negligence-new-mexico-abuse-case/2289026002/
  21. Jameson76

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I thought (think??) the Councils and Nationals money and finances are separate to a degree. For example National cannot make councils pony up cash to pay for Summit-a-palooza and all those costs. Just as National will likely not bail out a council for bad finance decisions and spending. There is overlap for pensions and the membership dues
  22. carebear3895

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I can't see it having that much impact financially. Most councils are self sufficient
  23. Sentinel947

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    What effect would National's bankruptcy have on the Councils?
  24. Jameson76

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    What a vague note. Doesn't say BSA is NOT filing bankruptcy, just that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, Well..with that type of firm commitment, I am sleeping well
  25. Thank you everyone for the replies. Good advice in all of the posts for me to consider. Answers to some questions that people asked: The boat appears to be worth around $20,000 based on my limited online research on what similar used boats are being sold for. The boat’s engine simply broke down. The mechanic who looked at it recommended replacing the entire engine (the $4,000 cost) as he said that the engine was far past its life expectancy. It was just a coincidence that it happened to stop working on the scout trip. I don’t think there is any interest in selling the boat since the boat is mostly used for personal use, and they don’t want to give that up. The committee members know that the parents are not happy, but I honestly believe that they just don’t care. And yes, I fully admit that having a group of highly experienced troop committee members with strong connections to council was a big reason why we chose this troop in the first place. But they just have this smugness where they believe that they know what is best for the troop, since they have been involved in scouting for so long and continue to be involved despite their boys being long aged out of the program.
  26. cocomax

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Michael B. SurbaughChief Scout Executive Just sent me an email, he says everything is going to be fine!
  27. Eagle1993

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    I am writing to you today in anticipation of news reports that will speculate about the BSA’s financial position. We have an important duty, and an incredible opportunity, to focus as an organization on keeping children safe, supported and protected, and preparing youth for their futures through our nation’s foremost program of character development and values-based leadership training. To do so in perpetuity, we are working with experts to explore all options available to ensure that the local and national programming of the Boy Scout of America continues uninterrupted. We have a social and moral responsibility to fairly compensate victims who suffered abuse during their time in Scouting, and we also have an obligation to carry out our mission to serve youth, families and local communities through our programs. We care deeply about all victims of child sex abuse and we are steadfast in our belief that one incident of child abuse is one too many. We sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in our programs. As you all know, we have always taken care of victims – we believe them, we believe in fairly compensating them and we have paid for unlimited counseling, by a provider of their choice, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since an instance of abuse. Throughout our history we have taken proactive steps to help victims heal and prevent future abuse. I want to stress that at no time in our history have we knowingly allowed a sexual predator to work with youth, and we always seek to act swiftly when alerted to abuse allegations. Please know that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, and we will communicate transparently as there are developments or updates to share. I wanted to update you today due to the news speculation, and I want to assure you that our daily mission will continue and that there are no imminent actions or immediate decisions expected. Thank you for your continued support of the Boy Scouts of America. Michael B. Surbaugh Chief Scout Executive Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, TX 75038 Copyright © 2018 Boy Scouts of America. All rights reserved.
  28. carebear3895

    Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

    Time to get the ole resume ready
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  • Posts

    • Weird question assuming a worst case scenario.  Could Councils exist and operate IF National went away as a result of this?  Maybe under the umbrella of a central State office?  Would there be different brands of Scouting across the country due to regional political and cultural differences?  
    • $20,000 !!!!   Are you sure that's not the cost for a NEW version?  Old boats lose value quickly.  If it is worth $20,000, that is a ridiculous asset for a troop to carry.  It sounds like this is a nebulous position on whether it's a personal vehicle (titled to a individual, used mostly for personal use) or a troop owned asset (not titled to charter org, used once a year).   New motor boat engines for a 20+ foot boat is worth more than $4000.  Often, the engine is worth the same as the boat.  Perhaps this is an in-board motor that is really a car engine mounted in a boat.   See if you can smile and let this go.  If you rented a boat, you'd be paying $1000 per day for such a vehicle.  Boats are expensive period ... to buy, to operate, to repair.        
    • So long as the original approvers still remember you coming to them for their signatures, I don't see why anyone would have a problem signing again after hearing your explanation. Examine past emails, text messages, etc for the exact dates when you had them sign your original paperwork. That may be helpful in refreshing their memories, if needed.
    • Saying this another way:  if the boat is owned by an individual Scouter (not the troop), but that Scouter lets the Scouts use it a couple times a year, then the burden of repairing an old, broken down engine should not fall entirely on the troop.  It might be reasonable for the troop to pitch in and pay something based on how often the troop uses the boat vs. how often the Scouter uses it for private use.
    • I can't read the CSE response as anything other than confirmation of the WSJ report.   Several Catholic dioceses have filed for bankruptcy under similar circumstances.  here's a great article explaining what happens. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/01/16/explaining-archdiocese-bankruptcy Broadly, assets that aren't strictly needed for continuing operations are set aside to pay creditors, including plaintiffs who have filed suit.  In addition, the court oversees operations of the organization in order to protect the claims of creditors.
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