Jump to content

All Activity

This stream auto-updates     

  1. Today
  2. David CO

    Right way to initiate Troop/Patrol Service Projects

    Unsolicited requests for help from outside organizations go to the Chartered Organization. If the CO wants us to look at it, we will. If the CO wants some other branch of our organization to look at it, they will. Otherwise, the CO responds to the outside organization with a polite refusal letter. It's better if the outside organizations feel like they were turned down by the Chartered Organization rather than the boy scouts.
  3. dabears

    Advice for New Cubmaster

    Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate all the excellent advice!
  4. NJCubScouter

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    I don't have a problem with this in general, but I think the BSA could pay a little more attention to how people are going to perceive things. The one thing that catches my eye is the "premium linens." Really? The whole setup is still reasonably rustic, I have no problem with a family opting for (and paying extra for) electricity, but "premium linens" seems kind of silly and unnecessary. All it does is lend itself to sarcastic exaggerations like the ones in the original post. (Plus I am not quite sure what would count as "premium linens." I am going to guess the ones we use at home would not qualify, but they do the job in a reasonably comfortable manner.)
  5. desertrat77

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    @qwazse, I'm tracking with you. Hadn't thought of the situation in that light. I figured the Mustangs would get a small sample of Philmont and then count down the days till they could come back as a crew member. Or become a staff member. Given the dynamics you've mentioned, plus the unwelcoming tone that seems prevalent in the BSA today, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them leave the confines of the BSA for other trails.
  6. I'm inclined to agree with @desertrat77. When you grow up seeing the serious backpackers leaving for the deep woods, it makes you curious. On the cusp of qualifying to lead a patrol there yourself. Not sure how much they'll be the future of the BSA. They're just as likely to tackle those (and other) hills five years from now independently with their mates. The BSA-required adult leaders will be left behind. Not being trusted to ASM young ones, they'll wind up as young adults serving other youth programs. A minority will come back to the BSA at age 21. Most will be doing good for this country and the world under other banners.
  7. I know the feeling... It was actually kind of an eventful week, and the events were kind of unavoidable for us. Prince Charles and Princess Diana got married four days after we did, so we were in the capital of Canada at the time the heir to their throne got married. (They went kind of bonkers over that.) And then the air traffic controller strike as we were trying to get back.
  8. desertrat77

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    As mentioned earlier, the camping HQ side of Philmont hosted over 24,000 trek participants. Here's a link and a quick sample of the summer of 2019: " The most popular spot for Crews to pick up meals in the Backcountry was Baldy Town, which distributed nearly 60,000 meal bags to 12,335 Participants." That was Baldy Town alone! "Grand Central Station" comes to mind. More data at https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/philmont-by-the-numbers/ While I don't have the PTC data, I've heard that the family adventure numbers were quite low. So I ask again: how are a dozen or so kids from the PTC going to ruin your Philmont experience? If your experience is going to be sullied, it will more than likely be by another 12 or 7 day trek crew. Ponil alone hosted 828 overnight crews this summer. The PTC Mustangs are the age group that we should be welcoming to the backcountry. They are the future of the BSA.
  9. ItsBrian

    Campout planning...who does it?

    My troop is a small (10) yet boy led troop. Usually how it goes is that my mom, we call her the Outdoor Coordinator, looks for different places around us and out of state. Our boys in the troop don’t really care about branching out outside of our repeated ~4 camps. Once my mom compiles a list, she has the SPL present it at the meeting, but the scouts are still more than welcome to give their ideas. We have my mom make a list as sort of a motivation kind of thing. After the list is presented, we pick and choose as a troop where we would want to go. We are very accommodating to everyone, we don’t choose something that only a few people would like to go to. Once we have the campouts for the year, the SPL and myself (JASM) work together to create a schedule of all the community service, fundraisers, volunteer, campouts that the troop will be doing. We start our new calendar year in September. Once the full schedule is made, we present it to the committee and PLC to get final approval. Sure, the committee will make some changes due to scheduling conflict or something, but we get full say in what we want to do. Shockingly, when I tell scouts in other troops around me, they say they don’t get that much of a choice.
  10. You all might want to read up to give you a little more background on PTC history and impact. https://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Road-Philmont-Training/dp/1427643792
  11. You're question makes me want to ask another: Is it better for the youth of America to have Philmont going in this direction? On the one hand, it seems a good thing to increase access to the facilities at Philmont. More families being inspired by the location seems a good thing. That inspiration for kids can then lead to a greater involvement for them in the future. I liken it to the National Parks. My family goes to lots of national parks. Those locations have I'm sure inspired my kids which I hope will lead to a life long love of these places. On the other hand, when Philmont was a pinnacle location - the trip there made it sacred, special. If increased access detracts from that, is that increased access work the price? While I've not been to Philmont - my 100+ trips to the national parks makes me think that it is worth it. But, I'm not quite sure
  12. I'm sorry you feel this way. I've been fortunate to have served in a bunch of unit and district leadership roles in my time in Scouting. There's a huge need for experienced, knowledgeable Scouters to provide leadership. In fact, most problems I see in Scouting today are due to that lack of such leadership. I'd LOVE to have more experienced Scouters involved in our troop and district taking on roles where their leadership can really make an impact. Honestly, if I see problems in my little corner of Scouting it's often because there are not enough experienced Scouters engaged. (I know this is off topic. Sorry in advance)
  13. fred8033

    Campout planning...who does it?

    The scout-led annual planning was one of our troop's high points for years. The idea was the SM worked with the SPL so that the SPL was ready to run the planning. Some of the prep was finding school and holiday calendars. Others were getting paper calendars, easels, tape and other materials. Then, the troop had last years annual planning goals and choices put up to the side. Then the troop would work through goal planning, idea generation and also then putting date and events on the calendar. The SPL and PLs would vote and coordinate. Often, any scout who wanted to attend could. But it was SPL led and PLs were the main focus. The SM sat in the back answering questions and being a friend to the SPL who tried to keep the meeting in control. IMHO, it was key that the SM had done this for 15+ years and knew a vision for annual planning and knew how to coach the SPL. When the scouts left, we had at least one copy of the 18 month calendar with weekends, tentative locations, events and activities. Also, service patrol. Program patrol. Themes. As quick as possible, the camping coordinator tried to get things reserved for as far into the future as possible. Usually 12 month reservations. Anything less than 10 months was putting things at risk.
  14. walk in the woods

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    @John-in-KC and @RichardB While I agree with you that the PTC programs are great for families (my family also enjoyed them), that's not the question on the table. The question on the table is whether or not the increased programs are going to impact those scouts and scouters on treks. Your responses don't address the question. @John-in-KC those trips sound amazing and I'm glad you got to enjoy them with your father. That said, doing them at 12 and 13 makes you the exception, not the rule. If that wasn't the case I assume the G2SS wouldn't limit HA trips and wilderness/backcountry to those 14 and over in the age guidelines.
  15. walk in the woods

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    My experience with the new BSA is that experienced scouters are being told to sit down and shut up. A new day has dawned and our experience is no longer required.
  16. qwazse

    Campout planning...who does it?

    We've found that the adults have to identify their available weekends. The scouts usually pick familiar locations, and we try to add one or two novel ones for them to consider. In general they are open to one in four of our suggestions. We're pretty flexible. If scouts come up with something mid term, we'll try to add it to the calendar, maybe swapping out something they weren't that enthused about.
  17. I gotta admit. If I were going to PTC for a course, staying in the deluxe tents doesn't sound so bad. Nicer beds, better sheets - sounds good to me.
  18. Campers and staff at Camp Somers, a Boy Scout camp on the Mt. Allamuchy Scout Reservation in Byram, NJ between June 23 and Aug. 7 may have been exposed to Hepatitis A, officials said. Campers who visited the health center the week of Aug. 4 are at an increased risk of exposure. Health officials say that a worker at Camp Somers was diagnosed with Hepatitis A, prompting concern that children or other attendees may have been exposed to the rare and highly contagious virus. Anyone who might have been exposed is advised to monitor their symptoms; those who visited the health center are advised to get the hepatitis A vaccine, officials said. Hepatitis A is a liver disease, which can cause fever, stomach pain, dark yellow urine, and jaundice. Most people recover on their own within a few weeks, but it can be serious in some people. It is highly contagious among people who have not been vaccinated. https://patch.com/new-jersey/longvalley/campers-north-jersey-camp-exposed-hepatitis https://www.nj.com/healthfit/2019/08/children-possibly-exposed-to-hepatitis-a-by-worker-at-nj-camp.html
  19. John-in-KC

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    Mr Bourleon, considering you probably stayed in the Villa itself, that’s a good thing. People need to understand PTC tents were always the large version... 11x14, with power and a GI metal rack with a decent mattress. Adding a front porch isn’t that much...
  20. @John-in-KC should probably worry, because I'm totally aligned with him on his last comment. It really would be good to understand what is being offered before you comment. My kiddos really enjoyed the training center family program, including the excursions into the backcountry and the living history of the area. I would certainly recommend taking advantage of the Family Adventure Camp next summer if you and your family need to get away. You don't have to take a class, you can just enjoy the programs offered.
  21. Yesterday
  22. John-in-KC

    Campout planning...who does it?

    Having been a COR and a CC, I want you to be both the resource person and a bit of appetite suppressant for the youth. Help your SPL have options for camping weekends. At the same time, help SPL understand limits, before the planning meeting...it fails common sense to drive 150 miles on a Friday night in Michigan in November. Finally, BSA has its annual program monthly themes. I’ve linked the program planning guide from the WD Boyce Council, which has them for Cubs (think den chiefs) and Scouts... http://www.wdboyce.org/document/program-guide/181492
  23. I've always felt that this is where experienced leadership shines. Those folks don't look at the latest marketing from national to guide their program. They look at the source materials, understand how it works, and then implement a solid program. When new folks show up, those experienced hands are there to provide some guidance. Ideas like Family Scouting provide some new ideas sure - but in those units will never harm the program because those experienced leaders know what needs to get done. I've read enough topics on this forum where packs or troops are facing problems. Many of those problems seem to come result from a lack of leadership from experienced Scouters. It's really a shame too - that's the true value-add of the chartered organization model in the BSA.
  24. John-in-KC

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    First, i did my first fifty miler in the San Fernando Valley Council when I was 12. It was called the Silver Knapsack Trail. i repeated it when I was 13. When I was 14, I did a 60 mile segment of the John Muir (Pacific Crest) Trail. Yes, Dad did the trail with me. He was deep in books studying for his undergrad degree after retiring from tha Army when my brother was a Scout, so he wanted the chance. BTW, I’m 62 now. Second, before you bash the programs for youth of attendees at Philmont Training Center, maybe you ought to read their website or discuss with someone what they are about. If you’re interested in the weeklong Trek for PTC youth, message me. My boy did it.
  25. That too is my concern. The inevitable slide. So you are camped out in a back country site. Your crew of 16 - 17 year olds, say day 7 or 8. There is a crew of Mustangs in the next camp. Maybe it's their only night out, so they are more boisterous. Also it can lessen the feeling of being out and away. At the surface, seems benign, it would not take much to have a less than favorable impact. Maybe there are ways to promote outdoors and not be out in the crown jewel of Boy Scouts backcountry. Hey...there's always Summit and they desperately need folks to go there. Make it Family Scouting paradise and leave the rest of us alone. Not sure how many families you need attending to pay down an over $125 million balloon bond payment....
  26. RainShine

    Campout planning...who does it?

    The troop leader guidebook, vol 2, p 60, says this.
  27. Eagle94-A1

    BSA designates Philmont as a "No Adventure Base"

    "Family Scouting" creep is a major concern for me. Some folks do not care about boundaries. I've seen what a 5 year old Lion can do to a patrol at camporee. Add in his helicopter parents, and life was miserable for the Scouts. Add to it that Dad was so focused on 5 year old Lion that he didn't honor the commitment he made to running an event ,affecting not just a patrol, but every single Scout attending the event, as well as the adults he had to ask to take over the event, which happened to be that morning. Heck I've seen how an 11 y.o. "Family Scouting" Scout affected the entire patrol. Ignoring directions from SPL and PL, running off when work was to be done, hanging out with family instead of doing stuff with his patrol, abandoning his tentmate to sleep with parents. So I am concerned.
  1. Load more activity
  • Posts

    • Unsolicited requests for help from outside organizations go to the Chartered Organization.  If the CO wants us to look at it, we will.  If the CO wants some other branch of our organization to look at it, they will.  Otherwise, the CO responds to the outside organization with a polite refusal letter. It's better if the outside organizations feel like they were turned down by the Chartered Organization rather than the boy scouts.
    • Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate all the excellent advice! 
    • I don't have a problem with this in general, but I think the BSA could pay a little more attention to how people are going to perceive things.  The one thing that catches my eye is the "premium linens."  Really?  The whole setup is still reasonably rustic, I have no problem with a family opting for (and paying extra for) electricity, but "premium linens" seems kind of silly and unnecessary.  All it does is lend itself to sarcastic exaggerations like the ones in the original post.  (Plus I am not quite sure what would count as "premium linens."  I am going to guess the ones we use at home would not qualify, but they do the job in a reasonably comfortable manner.)
    • @qwazse, I'm tracking with you.  Hadn't thought of the situation in that light.  I figured the Mustangs would get a small sample of Philmont and then count down the days till they could come back as a crew member.  Or become a staff member.  Given the dynamics you've mentioned, plus the unwelcoming tone that seems prevalent in the BSA today, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them leave the confines of the BSA for other trails.
    • I'm inclined to agree with @desertrat77. When you grow up seeing the serious backpackers leaving for the deep woods, it makes you curious. On the cusp of qualifying to lead a patrol there yourself. Not sure how much they'll be the future of the BSA. They're just as likely to tackle those (and other) hills five years from now independently with their mates. The BSA-required adult leaders will be left behind. Not being trusted to ASM young ones, they'll wind up as young adults serving other youth programs. A minority will come back to the BSA at age 21. Most will be doing good for this country and the world under other banners.
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Popular Contributors

×