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  2. qwazse

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    A Venturing crew is not a patrol. Not even close. Most days. But take note ... I've had 18-20 year olds come to me with a good plan that sometimes included younger siblings. I've helped them improve their plans, on one occasion tossing them my car keys. Scouting happens, with or without BSA.
  3. Gwaihir

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    yes, that was what I meant. thanks.
  4. qwazse

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    Rephrase: groups of teens do these on their own ... without the guidance of an organization priding itself on training leaders and being prepared. Last week, I got a picture of a young relative atop his a "tree house" three stories tall -- built from found plywood. Sketchy did not begin to define it! If his former SM was willing and able to deliver on the promise of scouting, that could have been a safe, solid pioneering tower! Our nation's most ambitious kids are in harms way thanks to a litigious society.
  5. Oldscout448

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    So can Venture crews go camping on their own?
  6. ParkMan

    BSA Executive Salaries

    When I was a Cubmaster I'd have said much the same. My pack never camped at Council camps, never participated in District or Council activities, never took advantage of any support from a DE on membership or anything else. We were the big, successful pack that did it all our self. For our part, the only relationship we had with the BSA was: - purchase badges and other items from the store - turn in recharter packets & applications - the occasional training So, in a real way, we'd have said much the same. When I joined the troop, I saw that things were different - but only because we wanted it to be so. We go to camporees, council events, council camps, make better use of training, etc. We're better off for it, but I do still remember those days in Cub Scouts when we operated completely independently.
  7. FireStone

    Walking Stick issue - Am I overreacting?

    It's tricky because the stick/staff has a long history in Scouting. I have a picture of one of our scouts at the last camping trip with a walking stick, one leg propped up on a rock, leaning slightly forward, looking like an illustration straight out of an early handbook. We're also working on the Good Knights adventure in our Den right now, and there is that illustration in there comparing a scout to a knight, a key feature of that comparison being the staff (comparable to the knight's lance). I believe at one time the staff was a required part of a Scout's uniform. I've been on hikes where sticks weren't a problem and scouts used them properly, for the mostpart. I've been on hikes where sticks quickly turned into weapons. I've been on hikes where things started out peacefully and then an hour into the hike things went bad and we ended up leaving a pile of walking sticks on the side of the trail. I don't know how to keep things peaceful and non-violent or LNT-compliant ("Johnny, stop whacking that tree with your walking stick!"), but I do notice that there are times when scouts use sticks safely and I want to encourage that. One thing I noticed on our last Pack camping trip was that one Scout brought a nice walking stick that he had found at home and spent some time cleaning up and turning into a nice staff. Because of the time he put into it, he didn't treat it as a random stick to swing around and whack things with. I'm tempted to try this with my son, and maybe encourage any Scout who wants to use a walking stick to make a nice one and take good care of it.
  8. Gwaihir

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    both of these are utterly absurd. a group of teens already do just about anything on their own without the guidance of the BSA... but under the guise of an organization priding itself on training leaders and being prepared... they are barred from doing so. absurdity to the max.
  9. Why won't he be able to finish? Technically, can't you wait until June 6th to start? (Which would be a terrible idea).
  10. Today
  11. walk in the woods

    Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

    Well, only if the parent is a BSA swimmer and proficient in the craft. Pg 16: For activity afloat, those not classified as a swimmer are limited to multiperson craft during outings or float trips on calm water with little likelihood of capsizing or falling overboard. They may operate a fixed-seat rowboat or pedal boat accompanied by a buddy who is a swimmer. They may paddle or ride in a canoe or other paddle craft with an adult swimmer skilled in that craft as a buddy. They may ride as part of a group on a motorboat or sailboat operated by a skilled adult.
  12. David CO

    BSA Executive Salaries

    Not a chance. I never contribute to FoS. I'm sure that DE's work very hard, and put in long hours, trying to raise money to pay the bloated salaries of the higher level scout execs. That's your job. You don't do anything for us.
  13. FireStone

    Breaking Point

    I agree there is a place for everyone in this game. I just get concerned when the adult components start to take priority over the youth components. Even stuff that people do in what they believe is in the best interests of the Scouts, but it ends up being more about the adults. I've seen it in the BSA and another scouting organization. I don't think people even realize they are doing it. But when adult activities are better planned than those involving the whole unit (I've seen leaders spend more time planning their Wood Badge weekend or leader retreat than the Pack camping trip), or when your unit website or facebook page or photo gallery shows more adult activities than youth activities, something is definitely wrong in your unit priorities. I've seen a discussion forum for a scouting organization that has more topics around adult programing, Rover advancement and ceremonies, adult uniforms, etc., than about the youth program. That's just weird to me. Scouting may be available in various ways to adults, and internationally the many scouting organizations out there have varying levels of adult opportunity and participation available. But at the core this is a youth-focused movement. Youth should always be the priority. So I guess I'd say that I do believe there is a place for everyone in this game, but I also think that the place of any adult in Scouting has to come from a standpoint of youth-first, and anything else as it fits in around that.
  14. Grrrrrr.... Personally, staffing requirements for me locally would be easier if the requirement was for a female CM/ACM only. It'll be a lot easier to recruit ONE female to be a ACM than however many we'll need (up to 6?) for den leadership. Plus that would finally give me an ACM to groom (does YPT allow me to use that word?) to take my place as CM. I know many Packs have a lot of female leadership, as evidenced by the 50/50 ratio at Roundtables, but our Pack has pretty much exclusively males in uniform. In spite of my efforts to cajole more women. And here we are accepting girls into more of our programming, while simultaneously saying, "women can mentor our boys, but men aren't capable of mentoring our girls without female assistance/guidance". So I guess that we're not truly just "opening up our membership to those interested in our programming". Because these leadership requirements imply that there's something fundamentally different about the programming now that requires a female's presence. How and in what way do these requirements make our kids safer?
  15. T2Eagle

    BSA Executive Salaries

    I've had that conversation with a couple of SEs that I'm friends with who were bemoaning the "kids these days" DEs working for them. "I had to (move a lot, work too many hours, take on too many tasks personally, etc.)" A common problem with any organization that never hires laterally from the outside is that there just aren't enough new ideas that people have actually already tried and used. The current system is premised on the idea is that if you put up with the hardship long enough you get rewarded by becoming a SE with good pay and good working conditions. But with the inevitable downsizing that's going to occur with the loss of the LDS that promise simply won't be able to be kept. I'm curious if any of the LDS community members here have any sense of what LDS professionals will be thinking once the relationship ends. Will they feel an obligation to leave scouting even if they don't have to?
  16. Eagle94-A1

    BSA Executive Salaries

    Yes, I know. I was actually warned by a mentor of mine who had dealt with a number of pros over the years he volunteered and worked summer camp staff. I should have listened. Not every SE was like the one I had when I was contemplating going into the profession. They also did a lot of questionable things regarding membership too, but that is a different story.
  17. Nothing like a deadline to really bring things into focus... Just ask any Life Scout approaching his 18th birthday... (I hope your results exceed your planned expectations.)
  18. ParkMan

    BSA Executive Salaries

    That's essentially what I thought too. Thanks. Reading it over though, it's interesting how the BSA leadership maneuvered here. Makes me wonder if the relationship was already strained.
  19. carebear3895

    BSA Executive Salaries

    You know why I think it is that way? Most if not all SE's were DE's like in the 70's, 80's,or 90's. From my understanding, the norm back then was to treat DE's pretty much like dirt. My guess is those SE's today don't see a reason to treat current DE's any better, because of what they went through. I'll admit there is a huge culture problem in the profession. On the plus side, I actually do see it getting better on a council by council basis.
  20. carebear3895

    BSA Executive Salaries

    you right. We just chill at the office and make lists of how to make life harder for volunteers. By the way have you turned in your FoS pledge card yet?
  21. gblotter

    BSA Executive Salaries

    LDS Scouting died in July 2015 when BSA announced its decision to admit gay adult leaders. The funeral was simply delayed due to the time required to formulate a replacement LDS youth program. After BSA's July 2015 vote, the strongly worded LDS response was shockingly candid in airing dirty laundry. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is deeply troubled by today’s vote by the Boy Scouts of America National Executive Board. In spite of a request to delay the vote, it was scheduled at a time in July when members of the Church’s governing councils are out of their offices and do not meet. When the leadership of the Church resumes its regular schedule of meetings in August, the century-long association with Scouting will need to be examined. The Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation. However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America." Co-ed Scouting was a clumsy decision made out of financial desperation upon being notified internally of the LDS exit date. That explains the manipulative surveys to elicit coerced support for an unpopular decision, followed by a rushed announcement of a half-baked idea with few program details available. @The Latin Scot is absolutely correct in the way he articulates LDS views about gender and complementary roles, but BSA's girl decision did not trigger the LDS exit. The BSA girl decision was quite irrelevant by that point (i.e. do whatever you think is best to secure the future of your movement, because LDS is leaving regardless).
  22. ianwilkins

    National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

    That's evolution for you.
  23. We all find ourselves in that type of situation. We see someone who is hurting, and we want to say something to comfort him. I don't know if this indicates a new level of acceptance or not. I can say unequivocally that it doesn't change the catechism or the teachings of the church. The Pope has also been reported to have said, to a young boy, that his dead dog is in heaven. Catholics don't believe that animals have a soul. I don't think the Pope's comment in any way changes this teaching. We talked about these issues in my catechism training. We don't want to be heartless and insensitive to people who are hurting. We also don't want to disseminate false information. Some times it is a difficult tightrope to walk.
  24. Last night, we had our first Troop Committee meeting since the announcement of LDS exit. As you might imagine, there was full attendance and the meeting ran long with discussion and speculation. The advancement plan for each of our 30 boys was discussed in detail. With a hard deadline of 12/31/19, the trail to Eagle now suddenly feels a lot more serious (even ominous) to our Scouting families. For some of these boys, just one misstep or missed date will derail their train. One parent was very sad because their son has no chance to finish Eagle before the deadline. We discussed the difficult financial position of BSA National and its recent desperate moves to admit girls. Our troop has a lucrative annual troop fundraiser that we will run one more time to fund our Scouting activities to the end of 2019. Any leftover money (unlikely) will be donated to FOS on 12/31/19. One Assistant Scoutmaster spoke postively about the prospect of him joining a non-LDS troop. One boy has already decided he will join the non-LDS troop of his OA buddies in order to continue his OA lodge membership. One parent hoped the council/district would sponsor some sort of outreach expo for LDS Scouting families to learn more about the surrounding non-LDS troops. However, most families acknowledged that their Scouting journeys will end on 12/31/19. The next 18 months will be an extremely busy time, and we plan to take our troop out with a bang - not a whimper. Several big blow-out Scouting adventures are being contemplated for summer 2019.
  25. Here is something interesting. Pope's reported comment to a gay man may indicate a new level of acceptance of homosexuality http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html Barry
  26. My apologies David. Barry
  27. blw2

    Breaking Point

    for me it was when it was clear that there was no way of talking son out of quitting. That's when I told the CC to find another person..... I still worked the job for several months after, but just did a minimum effort job..... BUT I'm still logging in here now and then....so it's clear I have an interest I think that IF I was retired and didn't have 3 young kids and already too much to do, I can imagine being willing to stick around and fill a role if needed. In fact, even since back in our days with the pack I have been very surprised at the lack of Grandparent involvement re. the coed thing.... I'm still not sure if that would have run me away or not.....I think probably not.
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