Required Parental Supervision

A couple other active threads on Scout behavior reference requiring parents to attend campouts with their sons. How is this working for most of you?

I have one ASM who hasn't quite found time for training over the past three years who attends every campout with his son. The boy has some combination of ADHD/Aspergers/bipolar. The dad's primary function is to walk in front of the boy picking up sticks and stones which may be in his way. He's constantly jumping in solving problems for his son. Rules never seem to apply to this kid. There is always some reason he shouldn't have to eat with his patrol, participate in the activities, or sleep with his tent mate. While the dad always makes the son ask me to be exempted from the rules, but the dad is usually standing over his shoulder with a long look on his face. Several times Scouts in his patrol have mentioned to me at SM conferences that this dad's meddling is one of the things they don't like about their patrol.

On the other hand, we have another Scout with similar behaviors. He's gotten in trouble from time to time and the troop committee and I have debated requiring that the father attend campouts with the son. Ultimately, we decided that the father is more trouble than the Scout and we would rather deal with the Scout alone than to put up with the father's attitude. The dad seems to have a rather thinly veiled contempt for the Scout program generally and a rather openly hostile opinion of me in particular. (He's not exactly on my Christmas list either.) It's rather clear that the dad would prefer the boy not be in Scout, but the mom seems to call the shots in the family.

Do any of you require parents to supervise their Scouts? How do you do this without destroying the patrol method? Do the parents do more that just sit in camp in case of emergency?(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

2cubdad,

A question: has someone sat down with the dad in question and explained expectations to this dad?

If no one has had a discussion with the father, that needs to be done quickly. SM would be a logical choice for this talk, as he/she owns the program, and dad is interfering in it. Discuss with the SM. Could be that he/she is hoping that the problem just goes away by itself, that the SM is afraid of confrontation with the dad, that the SM is not sure that he/she will have the backing of the troop committee, or that he/she doesn't have the personality or comfort level to have such a talk. If that is the case, a combination of the SM and CC, or SM and ASM's may make the conversation easier. It might be as simple as explaining that he needs to step back and remain hands off unless there is a melt down.

If the dad has been asked previously to remain more hands off, consider finding more jobs for this dad so that he has less time to intervene with his son. Perhaps he could be cook for the adult patrol, assigned to take care of equipment, and, work with the troop quartermaster to plan and conduct gear maintenance cleaning, etc. Discuss between SM and ASM's to keep an eye on things, and whenever dad is seen intervening, call him over for a consultation on "some topic", and give him a gentle reminder that he is getting too involved, and his son needs him to step back.

Yes, we done all that. The best thing we've done is to assigne the dad to other jobs. That tends to work for awhile. Eventually the father and son drift back together. There are some weird family dynamics going on that are above my GS level. The dad seems to think he as to solve all the problems because if the son goes home and tells his mom what "really" happens on campouts, all heck is going to break loose.

The dad thinks he's doing the right thing by directing the son to me. It's taken me awhile to figure out that I just have to be the bad guy and stand there admist all the boy's tears and long looks from the dad and say, "No, you cant tent with your dad, go back to your patrol."

I have no interest in trying to fix family problems, but I really struggle to keep it from interferring with the patrol method. The thing that works best is assigning the dad a job where he is physically away from his son's patrol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I have to add that over the past 6-9 months, the boy seems to be outgrowing a lot of his issues. Summer camp last year was the last time we had a big problem. Also, in the dad's defense, he really doesn't go looking to meddle and stays back if the son doesn't have problems. So there is hope that time will cure all this.

In the Troop we had a scout with Asperger's, I say had because he is no longer with the Troop. His father was quite active in the Troop and his son, while having a problem behaving, was not much different than the rest of the troop. I think 50% of the 62 Scouts are on Ritalin, thats what happens when a Pediatrician is your Committee Chair. So, the scout had behavioral issues at Summer Camp and was sent home on Thursday, not because he wanted to go home, he started hitting other kids for no apparent reason, I dont know, I wasnt there. The Troop had a High Adventure trip scheduled in 3 weeks and the father and son were comming along. The adult leadership took a vote as to whether or not the boy could come along. The vote was he could, but the father had to be very close to him at all times. Again, I wasnt there but towards the end of the week the boy flew into a rage and pummeled another scout quite violently. When the Troop got home, there was a Committee meeting and the Scouts expulsion was discussed and agreed. At the next Committee meeting the father was there and he wanted another chance for his son. The Committee ran down the events, in effect, the High Adventure trip was the second chance, he probably should have been dropped from the Troop after Summer Camp, but the father really works with the troop, etc. but the COmmittee decided we couldnt place the rest of the troop at risk because the father couldnt control his son. Thats when the father says but he has Aspbergers, even our Pediatrician wasnt aware of the diagnosis, he wasnt her patient. She felt, as we all did, he was just ADD. But after two physical attaks, and the boy getting bigger we had to let him go. We are not trained medical practitioners and if the father cant control his son, what are we to do? We talk alot about the volunteers leaders job to take care of the boy, we also have to keep in mind the welfare and safety of the rest of the troop. What if the third time the scout seriously injures another. What do we tell the family, we thought after the first two times he had it out of his system? Sadly the boy is gone, but I am not sure what else could have been done.

Good questions, twocub.

I don't think I'd ever advocate requiring a parent to come along as a long-term solution to a problem - not at the troop or crew level. For a few outings, to help the troop leadership get a handle on how to help the boy, sure. After that, you're not really providin' the scouting experience for that boy or for other boys, and yeh have to look at not continuing. There's always exceptions, but I think the unit leaders have to be completely comfortable with the exceptions.

Sometimes with youth with behavioral problems, the parent is goin' to be as much a part of the problem as part of the solution, eh? So I think yeh have to weigh that too. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of cases where the parent enabled the poor behavior.

Asperger's kids run quite a range. I've found it really helps if yeh can take the time to explain to other boys how the disease works, so that they understand about the communication difficulties and the missed social cues. They're on the "front lines" for their fellow scout, so you need to enlist their support. That really can defuse a lot of problems.

But boys who are gettin' bigger and who get crazy violent, despite the best efforts of non-professional volunteers, we have to protect the other kids.

Beavah

2CubDad

OGE is right on with his usually sound advise and comments. (and the others too)

I think it's probably best to let parent sknow that on outings, at meetings, during scouting events of any kind, parents don't recognize their own children. for example, my son is setting up his tent, then, asks me for help, I re-direct him back to his patrol or another scout. I DO NOT DO THE WORK FOR THE SCOUTS, I DO NOT COOK FOR THE SCOUTS, ETC.

By having the one dad pay so much attention to his son undermines the program. How can the SPL or PL get anything done if daddy is there over sonny's shoulder?

In the past we have had more issues with the DAD's on a trip then the sons. One particular father was a constant problem turning out trips into a scout trip with their family along with. They would have their own food, wander off on their own hikes and vanishing. Once, while he was driving kids home he took an hour detour leaving us waiting at the pickup spot clueless as to where he was with four boys. We had to tell him he couldnt go along anymore.

One time at philmont i had an issue with one adult who had refused to almost any physical training to get in shape for our Super Strenious trek. He could barely keep up, refused to hike with the crew, slowed us down and then started a mini-mutiny where he and his son and another scout were exempt of doing crew duties such as KP or carrying much weight.

As of today both dads and their scouts are no longer part of the troop.

In the pack my son just moved up from, we had a webelos, let's call him timmy, who was (and is ) a handfull So bad was Timmy, that mom, dad, gramps and teenage sister all came along. Well, teen sister couldn't come along without a girl friend, it was quite something. They paid for some people toward the food, but brought their own coolers, pre-made store bought PB&J with the crust cut off sandwiches, sodas, crackers, candy, cookies, etc. And then, when it came time for chores, this kids adult family members just shrugged, then said silly stuff like "watch that smoke Gonzo, it gets in your eyes" while eating Slim Jim and never lifting a finger to help, but then they sure packed it away when it came time to eat. The point is that it took 3 adults and an older sister to keep an eye on this kid, Timmy got yelled by his family at for everything.

Sometimes I think parents are worse than some kids.

I've posted this information before, but it may be helpful to repeat.

About 2 years ago, I had a scout with behavioral problems go overboard at a campout. Was not following troop rules, made an obscene comment to a young lady in another campsite ( while in uniform ), was openly defiant when we sat him down to talk about it, and took out his frustrations by taking a knife from the patrol box and stabbing the patrol cutting board, and vandalized a fellow scouts sleeping pad. We had some problems with behavior in the past, and this was finally the kicker.

I suspended him from the troop for 90 days, then required that a parent attend all meetings and outings for the next 3 months.

I was fortunate that the parents, though not happy with me, were at least reasonably supportive during that time and step-Dad came along on the next three campouts, including his first-ever backpacking trip. He did not hover over the scout, but did step in once when he was starting to get angry again over a small incident.

For me, this had a successful outcome. I've not had any more behavioral problems with this scout, he recently made Life, and now he is my SPL ( he's doing OK at SPL, still a little light on the leadership skills, but not too bad ).

So I may come across here as a little heavy-handed, but I was firm in my belief that I couldn't compromise the safety of other scouts, and that I wouldn't permit him to be such a distraction that it would be detrimental to the troop. I hope never to have to do such a thing again, but won't hesitate if the situation merits it.